GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #2

[Lottie]

... these houses are fairly modern, built in the 1960's I think, and the seperation between each home's attic is supposed to be quiet poor.

I used to live in a smiliar house (built 1972) and there was a firewall between neighbouring properties. I can't imagine it being easy to remove bricks without it being quite noisy to do.

The neighbour has been arrested as assisting an offender. To me this means he is not suspected or (or they do not have the evidence to arrest him yet) of helping in the actual crime as that would be accessory to murder (either before or after the fact). helping to hide a body is considered a lot more serious than assisting an offender.

If the neighbour has been arrested for telling lies about seeing Tia, then I can understand the severity. It has resulted in the police wasting hundreds of hours searching in otherr areas and on CCTV.

 

[oldhat]

A formal identification usually entails a relative identifying the person. If she's been dead a week in a warm house, they're not gonna be cruel enough to ask a relative to look at her. That means they will have to identify by dental records or forensically which takes longer

As the immediate family are nearly all entangled in an investigation they might not be asked to identify the body. Might it even have to come down to one of Tia's school teachers or similar?

I'm thinking - now the autopsy has been done, the identification has been made but they are not releasing it for the time being.

OT Hi WS, signed up here to say I used to live on a neighbouring estate to Fieldway (where the Sharp home is).
Your typical post war cheap housing, basic two up-two down, ours had concrete floors even upstairs(no floorboards!). The loft shaft in ours was small, about the size of a desktop screen, hard to get into and its entrance was obscured from immediate view because it was in a box room. Maybe why the Sharps loft wasn't immediately searched?

 

[Crazy Mama]

According to electoral rolls, SH was living there with NS and CS amongst others, a long time ago, possibly when SH and NS were lovers. My theory is that when he was sent to prison approx 2003, NS moved out and then met up with DN and that is who she is with now, and has had 2 more children with. Leaving SH to come out of jail and have no where to stay except back in his old residence with CS (CB). They must have ended up together by chance.

I don't know who is to blame anymore, but they are a strange lot of people and for a country that offers free accommodation/medical/schooling there really is no excuse for being so ignorant.

ETA : I would imagine the biological father would identify the body.

 

[MobyBluff]

If someone can quickly save as much as possible of her rantings,, it may help later. I will try and screenshot some too.

Really, you don't think the police have already recorded this stuff? Really? They may have missed a body (rumours hidden in the water tank by the way) but they're not stupid!

 

[summer_breeze]

BBM
Respectfully, I submit that it does matter. I realize the police are humans, but this is the job they are trained to do. It isn't like they overlooked a stray hair: they couldn't find a grown child's body.

What if the decomposition is so severe, they can't find if she was sexually assaulted, or know how she died? That can make 'worldly justice' problematic.

I understand WS is LE friendly, but there is nothing wrong with criticizing a search or tactics. No one is bashing LE as individuals. I'm sure they are choked up about it - it isn't often that LE apologizes, after all.

I agree that it won't bring Tia back, and I sincerely hope the mistake won't make finding the responsible parties guilty any more difficult.

imo

ETA: I see others have already posted what I essentially said. I'm a terribly slow typist.

Agree Brighidin. As I tried to say, analysis of the situation is appropriate. Sorry if I did not convey strongly enough!

 

[summer_breeze]

It may do if forensic evidence has decomposed.

Forensics is a good point! But the question becomes technical. What decomposes/dissipates and cannot be detected at 1 day, 3 days, 5 days, 7 days?

 

[masekwm]

Possibly, but as you say it depends how far gone it was.
This was the problem with Holly and Jessica, by the time they were found there was n:fence way of knowing whether this had happened - or indeed how they actually died.

Holly and Jessica had been set on fire which caused most of the damage

 

[MobyBluff]

Can anyone help with these things that are baffling me, please?

1. If 'one' has a dead body in the house (by murder or otherwise), why would they alert the authorities that the person was 'missing?' At all, or before they had removed the body from their home? {because missing means missing, not murdered in a loft space}

2. Who did alert the authorities? {it really doesn't matter, I'd imagine the mother, however the gam put a pizza in the oven before Tia got home. Tia was due home latest at six. The police were alerted at 6. Pizza takes 10 minutes to cook. Why wouldn't she wait. And if she wasn't worried at 10 to six when the pizza went in why call the police at 6?}

3. If Tia's body 'should' have been found by the police search on Tuesday, how long exactly could the perpetrators think they would get away with having a dead body in the first place the police would search (assuming it had actually been done thoroughly)? {local rumour, water tank}

4. Why would 'one' not remove the body before doing anything else? {didn't anticipate the immediate media presence? didn't feel comfortable moving anything out of the house...it is a residential area and the school holidays. loads of people around}

5. There seems to have been very little pre-meditation prior to what happened (IMO - based on the complete lack of reasonable alibis/ removal of evidence etc) but a great deal of learned responses in the aftermath (copying behaviours from recent highly publicised cases) - so, could this all have stemmed from an accident of sorts? {no, there is no chance this was a covered up accident, that's foolish}

6. G'ma appears to have an aggressive nature (based on her TV appearances and FB page) - could she have struck out at her 'cheeky' tween grand-daughter which resulted in this awful situation? {possibly, but why?}

Rather than call the emergency services (bearing in mind SH's record and thoughts of further issues) they went into damage control and got it all so horribly wrong. It would explain SH's behaviour yesterday - definitely a man who was losing the plot - embroiled in an awful situation that somehow he had become the main villain in. {nah! nothing to indicate that! How do you accidentally kill someone in such a way that you'll be implicated by your past?}

Obviously, I have no idea but sometimes things are less complicated than they seem, i.e. satanic worship, paedophile rings etc, although those are also quite possible. {she's just a nasty piece of work, likely at least. Let's see how it pans out but I feel you are WAY off the mark}

Either way: RIP Tia.

So there!

 

[Apostate]

We tend to be quick to "blame" officials. But blame for what???

Not to be disrespectful, but if the police did not find the body for 1-8 days, does it truly matter?

She could have been alive. Unlikely I know but there was no evidence she was dead.

 

[Crazy Mama]

Forensics is a good point! But the question becomes technical. What decomposes/dissipates and cannot be detected at 1 day, 3 days, 5 days, 7 days?

I just googled 'decomposed body' and it showed some images, but it said by day 4 the skin turns very dark and blood liquifies and flows out of the lungs via mouth and gasses build up. By day 7 the skin is starting to fall apart.:what:

 

[Lottie]

Holly and Jessica had been set on fire which caused most of the damage

I wasn't going to go into details, but I think you'll find there was superficial evidence of a fire (damage to trees and shrubs above where they were found), but when they were found they were skeletal as a result of decomposition over several weeks in a hot August.

 

[MobyBluff]

Maybe when he was supposedly running and getting vodka they thought the press and police would follow him and they would have time to move her body then? Only it didn't happen that way.

<modsnip>, but with him on the run would the police and press disappear from new addington? no.

 

[Inge Jones]

Forensics is a good point! But the question becomes technical. What decomposes/dissipates and cannot be detected at 1 day, 3 days, 5 days, 7 days?

Semen, saliva, bruises (skin breaks down and becomes increasingly discolored) and maybe even stab wounds if the flesh is no longer integrous. Quite a lot would have been available at 2 days that may not be at 8 days.

At 8 days they could probably still detect drugs, and broken bones.

 

[brit1981]

I used to live in a smiliar house (built 1972) and there was a firewall between neighbouring properties. I can't imagine it being easy to remove bricks without it being quite noisy to do.



If the neighbour has been arrested for telling lies about seeing Tia, then I can understand the severity. It has resulted in the police wasting hundreds of hours searching in otherr areas and on CCTV.

If he was arrested for telling lies, would that not be an arrest of perverting the course of justice. Assisting an offender is not that serious a charge as it does not involve the actual crime itself. It can just can hiding someone from the police etc.

As for the attics, apparently according to media reports the seperation between the attics was not good, no firewall etc. No idea how accurate that would be though.
But the house was searched with a recovery dog a few days before she was found, plus the police had searched the entire place including in the spot where she was found. I wonder why they missed it. But we are not in a position to judge the police as we do not have the full story. Once charges are brought we will not hear any more until the trial either as there will be reporting restrictions put in place.

 

[Destroyer]

I just googled 'decomposed body' and it showed some images, but it said by day 4 the skin turns very dark and blood liquifies and flows out of the lungs via mouth and gasses build up. By day 7 the skin is starting to fall apart.:what:

Thanks for sharing that ! :thumb:

 

[brit1981]

As for decomposition. It is variable, it woud depend on temperature, atmosphere, the surroundings, whether the body was wrapped or not, and the body itself - female bodies tend to preserve better than male bodies due to the fat content.

 

[BritsKate]

A guide to posting etiquette for all our new members :
Rules Etiquette & Information - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[Destroyer]

I was answering why nobody noticed an 'aroma' from the body.... I believe the body was found in the loft (unconfirmed)

Not unless she had been kept in a vacuum airtight sack which may prevent the smell getting out ??

 

[fabgod]

If he was arrested for telling lies, would that not be an arrest of perverting the course of justice. Assisting an offender is not that serious a charge as it does not involve the actual crime itself. It can just can hiding someone from the police etc.

As for the attics, apparently according to media reports the seperation between the attics was not good, no firewall etc. No idea how accurate that would be though.
But the house was searched with a recovery dog a few days before she was found, plus the police had searched the entire place including in the spot where she was found. I wonder why they missed it. But we are not in a position to judge the police as we do not have the full story. Once charges are brought we will not hear any more until the trial either as there will be reporting restrictions put in place.

Could it be possible that the arrest for assisting an offender is simply to put him in a position where they can hold him and stop him from potentially destroying evidence etc?

I presume an arrest or even a charge could be uprated to something more serious?

 

[summer_breeze]

Semen, saliva, bruises (skin breaks down and becomes increasingly discolored) and maybe even stab wounds if the flesh is no longer integrous. Quite a lot would have been available at 2 days that may not be at 8 days.

At 8 days they could probably still detect drugs, and broken bones.

Acknowleged! But I don't think that this detracts from a murder charge????

Rape would be secondary charges? I'm not at all sure of UK law. (semen, saliva)