GUILTY UK - Tia Sharp, 12, New Addington, London, 3 Aug 2012 #4

[Saturn]

Just a quick question, does anyone have a link please to the pictures of neighbours and family members bringing food and supplies to the home?

Just wondering if the Police checked all incoming packages, as at that time I believe 2 searches had been done, and they may have thought the coast was clear e house searches.

 

[Alyce]

If this is the case I have 2 questions:

1) why would he murder a member of their family if he needs the family so much?

2) to what lengths would you go to protect the family/a supportive family member, when that family provides you with a home and an income?

Either he didn't realise he needed the family and is a murderer, he needs the family and it was an accidental death or he doesn't give a flying **** about the family.

Moby
I think your second reason is the closest
He needs the family and it was accidental

SH had been with the family for quite a while, not counting the * enforced breaks * away !
So, although he may have started out being grateful and looking to the family for support and to provide him with a stable lifestyle ( cant believe I used the word stable but you know what I mean, better than he had previously ), over time he would have settled in more and perhaps been not so grateful and a bit more normal character - ie not on best behaviour all the time .
So, the nights that CS/CB was working were perhaps his nights to relax, drink and indulge in whatever other substances he had to hand and he may have been not best pleased to be told he was on babysitting duties.

What started as a small irritation, developed over the course of the evening and resulted in the death of TS.

 

[opalsqueak63]

Still not entirely clear in my own mind about this,but I do have a niggling thought that perhaps SH did not do the acrual killing or that he was not alone when it happened.

A poster did say(this could well be just rumour as it was not substantiated with any facts) they knew Tia was getting fed up with the family situation at home.

I think perhaps DS was a more successful criminal than SH and was higher up in the drug pushing chain and possibly not a user himself.

He could be supplying NS and Tia was fed up with what it was doing to her mother and there was some sort of confrontation.

(My bolding) This is my belief too.


I wonder if the police would have been able to trace/tap the families 'phones and FB between Tia going missing and being found? I hope so. There was a great deal of FB activity in the interim. One thing the police know and we don't are whether the people involved (excluding SH who we know about) have criminal records.

 

[MobyBluff]

PM was taken in for questioning and then released on bail. Hypothetical conversation.

Police to PM "You lied about seeing TS leave the house on Friday 3rd."

PM to Police "Only cos I thought he had a bit of crack in there, I never in my wildest dreams thought he had a body in there."

Police to PM Ok, off you go on bail

OK, so the thinking is PM was arrested for another crime "giving a false statement" or similar and the upon questioning said "I did it cos he told me there's a drug stash up there". To which the officer said "we are now arresting you on suspicion of assisting an offender"?

Sorry, the way I saw it was the police originally arrested him on suspicion of assisting an offender.

 

[MobyBluff]

Just a quick question, does anyone have a link please to the pictures of neighbours and family members bringing food and supplies to the home?

Just wondering if the Police checked all incoming packages, as at that time I believe 2 searches had been done, and they may have thought the coast was clear e house searches.

I remember seeing a tv clip where a few of them were seen carrying small provisions, there was nothing suspicious that i noticed.

 

[Alyce]

Just a quick question, does anyone have a link please to the pictures of neighbours and family members bringing food and supplies to the home?

Just wondering if the Police checked all incoming packages, as at that time I believe 2 searches had been done, and they may have thought the coast was clear e house searches.

Pic in this article

http://m.dailymail.co.uk/news/artic...ned-2-hours-detectives-potential-witness.html

 

[Saturn]

Thanks....just had a wild thought, especially regarding the likeness of NS and TS in the CCTV footage..

 

[Clio]

OK, so the thinking is PM was arrested for another crime "giving a false statement" or similar and the upon questioning said "I did it cos he told me there's a drug stash up there". To which the officer said "we are now arresting you on suspicion of assisting an offender"?

Sorry, the way I saw it was the police originally arrested him on suspicion of assisting an offender.

No, PM was arrested on suspicion of assisting an offender.

At the point PM was arrested, all the police knew was that they had found TS dead in the house, strongly suspected she never left on Friday and therefore PM had lied about seeing her.

The reason he lied is a bit irrelevant. I just used drugs as an example to illustrate a credible scenario.

In the scenario I paint, the fact is he lied to assist an offender and was arrested for doing so.

Ultimately, he may be charged, either with that or a lesser offence or he may be released without any charges at all.

 

[opalsqueak63]

Thanks....just had a wild thought, especially regarding the likeness of NS and TS in the CCTV footage..

Please share.

Is it just me who feels we are making progress today?

Some really brilliant posts and it's great to have intelligent people to talk to about it.

 

[Skigh]

Thanks....just had a wild thought, especially regarding the likeness of NS and TS in the CCTV footage..

I have had a few wild thought about the likeness and it being N.s's phone in the house!!
Though police would enhance photo's so would be able to tell the difference.

 

[Alyce]

I would still like to know why PM has been arrested for assisting an offender but the female ( sorry JH I think ) has not ?
Initially I thought perhaps her sighting had been discounted, she had said she got the day wrong or something, but I went back and found the article and she seemed to be definite that she saw TS on the Friday around about midday. The only differential was her description of clothing, white top and leopard skin trousers

 

[Clio]

I would still like to know why PM has been arrested for assisting an offender but the female ( sorry JH I think ) has not ?
Initially I thought perhaps her sighting had been discounted, she had said she got the day wrong or something, but I went back and found the article and she seemed to be definite that she saw TS on the Friday around about midday. The only differential was her description of clothing, white top and leopard skin trousers

Exactly! The description issued by the police was later changed to grey leggings. Because SH said grey leggings. What if PM also said grey leggings.

If you go back a few posts and read my conversation with Moby it might make more sense

 

[Saturn]

Probably a totally hair brained thought, but with this family, who knows?

Incident at home of NS/DN, call in DS to save the day. Dress NS in Tia's clothing, admittedly with a push 'em up bra on, ensure she is seen on the Co Op's rather bad CCTV (why are there no other CCTV pics of Tia travelling from mum's to gran's?, has anyone checked the street/tram CCTV's for NS that day?, granted she could be in a taxi or a car, and changed into Tia clothes later). This would also explain why NS's phone is at gran's house.

After the initial plea, and a couple of house searches, they may have thought that gran's house was off the radar - smuggle body in, and hide in loft.

Wash the clothes like crazy to rid the majority of NS's DNA - although they would obviously share some DNA, if questioned, just say they shared clothes sometimes. Hoover like billy-o, to drown out any chance of conversations being heard by neighbours as walls are paper thin.

DS is a bigger fish in whatever game, and also apparently less addled than SH, so SH will do whatever he is told to maintain the first bit of stablelife he has had in years.

Yes, it's a very long shot - but I too think they went from 0 to grieving a bit too quickly, initially it would be more panicky and feelings of helplessness tears.

 

[Alyce]

Exactly! The description issued by the police was later changed to grey leggings. Because SH said grey leggings. What if PM also said grey leggings.

If you go back a few posts and read my conversation with Moby it might make more sense

Yes, I agree with your post that it is possible SH gave PM the clothing description that he needed to use in his statement.... and this could have led to the charge against PM

But, I still dont get why JH is not facing any charge ? because as we now know - TS did not depart that house on August 3 - so if we forget for a moment that she gave a different clothing description, she was still positive about the date and time of her sighting ( unless of course she retracted her statement and this is why no more has been said about it )

 

[Skigh]

There is no CCTV. We know absolutely nothing. I wish to God I could tell you something.”

The schoolgirl disappeared on a trip to the shops on Friday.

Natalie said a woman had seen her leave Tia’s grandmother Christine Sharp’s house alone.

She said: “I have an independent witness that she left on her own walking down the road.”

Sorry meant to include link.

I find it strange that Natalie says she has a witness rather than the police have a witness.

 

[Clio]

Yes, I agree with your post that it is possible SH gave PM the clothing description that he needed to use in his statement.... and this could have led to the charge against PM

But, I still dont get why JH is not facing any charge ? because as we now know - TS did not depart that house on August 3 - so if we forget for a moment that she gave a different clothing description, she was still positive about the date and time of her sighting ( unless of course she retracted her statement and this is why no more has been said about it )

BIB Key point. JH was clearly mistaken about seeing her on the Friday whereas PM lied (in my example scenario to illustrate how a neighbour who said he saw TS on Friday 3rd could have been arrested and bailed on a count of assisting an offender).

 

[MobyBluff]

No, PM was arrested on suspicion of assisting an offender.

At the point PM was arrested, all the police knew was that they had found TS dead in the house, strongly suspected she never left on Friday and therefore PM had lied about seeing her.

The reason he lied is a bit irrelevant. I just used drugs as an example to illustrate a credible scenario.

In the scenario I paint, the fact is he lied to assist an offender and was arrested for doing so.

Ultimately, he may be charged, either with that or a lesser offence or he may be released without any charges at all.

Gotcha.

Can you imagine if more of the reported sightings of Tia had ended in a statement? Why do we think none of these ended up with a statement being made?

 

[Skigh]

Probably a totally hair brained thought, but with this family, who knows?

Incident at home of NS/DN, call in DS to save the day. Dress NS in Tia's clothing, admittedly with a push 'em up bra on, ensure she is seen on the Co Op's rather bad CCTV (why are there no other CCTV pics of Tia travelling from mum's to gran's?, has anyone checked the street/tram CCTV's for NS that day?, granted she could be in a taxi or a car, and changed into Tia clothes later). This would also explain why NS's phone is at gran's house.

After the initial plea, and a couple of house searches, they may have thought that gran's house was off the radar - smuggle body in, and hide in loft.

Wash the clothes like crazy to rid the majority of NS's DNA - although they would obviously share some DNA, if questioned, just say they shared clothes sometimes. Hoover like billy-o, to drown out any chance of conversations being heard by neighbours as walls are paper thin.

DS is a bigger fish in whatever game, and also apparently less addled than SH, so SH will do whatever he is told to maintain the first bit of stablelife he has had in years.

Yes, it's a very long shot - but I too think they went from 0 to grieving a bit too quickly, initially it would be more panicky and feelings of helplessness tears.

My thoughts are along very similar lines .Gives a reason why no Oyster card.I was puzzled why the oystercard was mentioned so much.
NS would not want any bus conductor to look at her too closely.

Also could give explanation why SH travelled to Croydon to meet Tia half way on a journey she had done many times on her own.


Could also be something about the clothes mix up.Tia would have to be dressed in the clothes NS had been wearing .THE woman witness did actually give a correct description of white tshirt

The person the woman witness saw was actually NS returning home.

 

[MobyBluff]

BIB Key point. JH was clearly mistaken about seeing her on the Friday whereas PM lied (in my example scenario to illustrate how a neighbour who said he saw TS on Friday 3rd could have been arrested and bailed on a count of assisting an offender).

As far as I know there was only one statement given, so either JH or PM. If it is assumed the statement was from JH then there must be another reason for the arrest of PM (i.e. he assisted in another way).

The press all assume it was PM who gave the statement - two and two make four - but it's possible it was JH who gave the statement, in which case my brain is going to explode....sorry, it's already exploded to the point where it can't explode anymore, so I rephrase...my brain bits are going to start melting

 

[Clio]

Gotcha.

Can you imagine if more of the reported sightings of Tia had ended in a statement? Why do we think none of these ended up with a statement being made?

They probably did end up with statements. But if the next door neighbour's sighting was a lie because she never left the house on Friday, how relevant are any other "sightings"? They're not.