Upcoming Trial - 2012

[Madeleine74]

The cops didn't even bother to get Elmer's DNA to prove this was his handprint.
The mistake allowed Collins to use the "unknown DNA" crap again.
Betcha it won't happen next time <<wink>>

Okay JTF...did YOU get a DNA sample from Elmer, send it off to a lab, pay to get it tested, then send the test results to Spivey? Is that what you're trying to tell us? :great:

 

[Just the Fax]

Okay JTF...did YOU get a DNA sample from Elmer, send it off to a lab, pay to get it tested, then send the test results to Spivey? Is that what you're trying to tell us? :great:

Well, close.
I did send him one of my pesky e-mails on the subject

 

[Madeleine74]

My guess is all 39 room occupants were in their locked rooms after 11PM.

This is the kind of C.E. that would be another nail in the proverbial coffin if that data had been made available and then shown in court.

That's why I want to know if JY's laptop was connected to the HI Internet through the entire night or not. All these little things help paint a picture.

 

[Madeleine74]

Well, close.
I did send him one of my pesky e-mails on the subject

If there isn't a 'JTF' spam filter set up on his email account by now I'll eat my hat. And for the sake of the case, I hope there isn't.

 

[otto]

Yea, what are the odds another male from the hotel would follow Jay's lead and prop open the same fire door in the wee hours?

To even consider such a notion is stupid.
Of course BH never drove many key points home, so the jury just dismissed.

Isn't it also unusual to interpret the probably that one in 42 or 79 means that DNA matches one person in a group of 42 or 79? The DNA from 3 alleles does not match any particular person. Three of the alleles on the rock matched Jason. Those alleles could begin with caucasian, male and add one more trait ... there are our three alleles. Many people in a room could share those alleles, more than one in 42.

What is stupid ... that DNA analysis of one in 42 means that if there are 42 men in a room, the guy that was tested for DNA (three allele match) must be the guy? Like I said, I don't know enough about it, but something doesn't add up with that in terms of how I understand and interpret DNA results.

 

[otto]

Yes, the only source and we now know the details were untruthful.
He stated he went down to get the computer charger when he hung up his call with MM at 11:45PM.
(Demietrius called at 10:58 PM)

Well, we now know he lied because he was on the computer at 11:38 -11:53PM. So, he was on the computer the entire time he was chatting up his girl.

Yep, he went down around 11:20PM to unplug the camera.

Was he actively using the computer at 11:45 ... and would that really matter? Both the gas attendant and the night audit clerk had their times off by at least 30 minutes at times ... both had computers or cash registers under their noses with the time clearly visible. What would that prove ... that three people got their times wrong that night?

If he got the charger out of his car before the call with MM, did he pick it up a few minutes before at 11:38? If he moved the camera at 11:20, what was he doing from 11:20 until 11:38 ... fretting

 

[Just the Fax]

Was he actively using the computer at 11:45 ... and would that really matter? Both the gas attendant and the night audit clerk had their times off by at least 30 minutes at times ... both had computers or cash registers under their noses with the time clearly visible. What would that prove ... that three people got their times wrong that night?

The testimony was there was activity on his laptop...so, yes.
As for the time, i'm sure the time came from his computer or ISP.
No estimate from a clerk or anyone else.

 

[Just the Fax]

If he got the charger out of his car before the call with MM, did he pick it up a few minutes before at 11:38? If he moved the camera at 11:20, what was he doing from 11:20 until 11:38 ... fretting

Well, I don't think for a second his changer was in his car...that was a lie.

 

[otto]

The testimony was there was activity on his laptop...so, yes.
As for the time, i'm sure the time came from his computer or ISP.
No estimate from a clerk or anyone else.

The night audit clerk was off with the times that the cameras were adjusted. He said that the camera was plugged in around 5-5:30 and that the camera was again tilted 15-20 minutes later. Apparently the camera was plugged in at 5:50 and tilted at 6:35. The gas attendant was also off with her times. How can accuracy be expected only from the suspect?

 

[MyBelle]

It`s not the size and appearance of the rock, it`s the fact that a 3 allele match is meaningless. If you read about the Amanda Knox trial, you will find that a much stronger match was rejected by the courts because it was not valid. If a 3 allele match had been used in Italy to argue that Knox was guilty, everyone would have laughed at it. I don`t see this as any different ... a 3 allele match should never be used to implicate someone in a crime ... ever.

ITA. Plus, there was no proof that the rock was the same rock the clerk said he kicked from the door into a general area. Everything about that rock was an insult to the jury.

JMO

 

[otto]

Well, I don't think for a second his changer was in his car...that was a lie.

So he loitered under the camera for 18 minutes, thinking about how to unplug it, never being seen by any of the 10 cameras in the hotel?

 

[Madeleine74]

One of the reasons his using his computer matters is that he had instant access to sports scores. He claimed he picked up that USA Today newspaper at the front desk so "he could check sports scores." He didn't need to. Before he ever went down to the front desk he already had the ability to easily check scores on his laptop that was connected to the Internet and being used in his room.

The newspaper story was a lie.

Busted.

 

[Madeleine74]

If you read about the Amanda Knox trial, you will find that a much stronger match was rejected by the courts because it was not valid.

It wasn't valid because the testing protocol wasn't followed, the DNA sample was so minute the equipment originally showed no match, and the tester manually messed with the equipment to try and get a better test outcome. That went against International testing standards and the Italian scientific lead was practically laughed out of court during the appeal.

Let's not mix completely unrelated situations.

That's not a factor in this case. A 3 alliel match is what what was found. Not a definitive match, but not necessarily "nothing." Statistical odds can be computed based on a 3 alliel match. Bottomline: JY cannot be excluded as being in a pool of people who could have left his DNA on that particular pebble/rock. There isn't a recognized, professional scientist who will sit on the stand and say that JY can be definitively excluded.

 

[MyBelle]

The rock was kicked out of the door, hopefully back with the other rocks. If the rock was not collected from the door, it is not evidence - chain of custody and all that stuff. It`s like saying here`s a knife that was found in a drawer similar to a knife that someone found at point A and moved to point B. it looks like all the other knives in the drawer, numerous unknown people had access to the knife ... but it`s a 3 allele match to the suspect, therefore it`s the murder weapon and since the suspect walked past the knife drawer, me must be guilty. It doesn`t work ... or at least it shouldn`t. I sure wouldn`t want to be subjected to that sort of funny evidence collection.

Do you have a link demonstrating that a 3 allele match is considered valid in a courtroom?

Good points. Manufacturing evidence isn't supposed to be allowed. The rock was kicked away from the door but cops didn't show up until two days later. To even suggest that a rock found on a sidewalk is the SAME rock is pretty lame.

JMO

 

[otto]

The cops didn't even bother to get Elmer's DNA to prove this was his handprint.
The mistake allowed Collins to use the "unknown DNA" crap again.
Betcha it won't happen next time <<wink>>

That looks like Jason's hand print ... long and boney.

 

[Madeleine74]

by Otto: Do you have a link demonstrating that a 3 allele match is considered valid in a courtroom?

cf. the first trial when the evidence was introduced.

by MyBelle: Manufacturing evidence isn't supposed to be allowed.

Absolutely true. Now what evidence was "manufactured?" Oh wait don't tell me...I know! The ciggy butts that were conveniently placed at the house, after the CCBI spent 11 days processing the scene. A hair found. Ummm...what else? JTF?

 

[Just the Fax]

The night audit clerk was off with the times that the cameras were adjusted. He said that the camera was plugged in around 5-5:30 and that the camera was again tilted 15-20 minutes later. Apparently the camera was plugged in at 5:50 and tilted at 6:35. The gas attendant was also off with her times. How can accuracy be expected only from the suspect?

I guess you did't read my post that answered your question.

 

[MyBelle]

What evidence is there ... certainly not a 3 allele DNA comparison, not the medicine, not the jewelry box, not the unknown shoeprints, not the gas attendant ... an unplugged camera 7 hours before someone supposedly doesn`t want to be seen entering a door that was locked? If we eliminate all the smoke and mirrors, there`s not much left.

Eight jurors agreed and so do I. I'm appalled at the effort to railroad this man with such non-evidence as random rocks and unplugged cameras.

JMO

 

[Just the Fax]

cf. the first trial when the evidence was introduced.

Absolutely true. Now what evidence was "manufactured?" Oh wait don't tell me...I know! The ciggy butts that were conveniently placed at the house, after the CCBI spent 11 days processing the scene. A hair found. Ummm...what else? JTF?

The cig butts and single hair on a lamp were never even photographed.
We heard they were collected by some "Dr" hired by Kim Young, but we never heard from him in court.

No doubt in my mind their existence in the house was manufactured.
Not unlike the Peterson kids planting the 'blowpoke' in Mike Peterson's garage

 

[Madeleine74]

"Railroad" this man?

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

The most anyone can say is they weren't convinced of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt based on what the state presented in the first trial. And that is the state's fault, with some blame for the judge too, for making everything rushed.

But to say he "was railroaded?" He was free for 3+ years AND he wrote an email to his sister hoping there would never be an arrest in the case. WHO doesn't want their wife's and unborn son's murder ever solved? An innocent, grieving husband? No, the killer, that's who.