Update 18 June 2013: In depth interview with Sharlene Bosma

[ArianeEmory]

I'm really confused as DNA results also take weeks to process... so I'm not sure I understand how the police were able to announce to the media and public that they definitively found TB's remains. Is it possible for DNA results to have come back so quickly? Could those remains (size of box and remains unclear; could be shoe box of ashes) have been DM's father's?

The police have been sharing a lot of evidence with the general public and not allowing this case to be tried by the court of law; instead making it a circus of public opinion. The way they publicize evidence here in this case and yet with Toronto's mayor (who is also being investigated for murder) they are respecting the process and not releasing evidence to the media... What gives?

1) LE has actually pretty much clammed up about the case, particularly after Mark Smich's arrest. We had the "CYA" presser with Carbone in which basically no info was given. Otherwise nothing official in weeks, which is why SB's interview is getting picked over so heavily for clues.

2) I think this is an example of the "CSI effect", people expecting every piece of evidence to be based on hard forensic/DNA proof, but the wording of the discovery of TB's remains was "the totality of the evidence suggests"...that they were his. In short, I don't think they had "hard" scientific proof at the time they made the announcement, but probably other evidence that made it obvious. And of course we STILL don't know for sure what other tests have been concluded now, or even in what condition his remains were found, other than "burned beyond recognition", which isn't exactly scientific nomenclature either.

 

[robynhood]

JMO again but in reply to an above poster...I agree that I doubt DNA evidence would have been back ( kind of guessing due to the timing of annoucement...

2. I feel that there was other evidence that identified him...( guessing like rings or something that did NOt get burnt...ugh hate writing it is Blunt( feels inhumane ) ....

3, Also thinking dental records as I know someone who worked for a dentist and they often got called to pull up dental records....correct me as I am clueless as to what would be left????...robynhood..

4.* in reading the write ups and links posted, comments on direct articles on the papers here ... to my request( thanks fellow memebers here) ...it said that Sharlene's interview was to be aired in " PArts" not the total length all at once...

..How long was that interview on T.V. Friday , June 14 ...anyways?...robnyhood.

 

[ArianeEmory]

As to "what would be left", meaning would his teeth have been intact enough for dental identification, we still don't know. We don't know how he was burned, at what temperature or for how long. People more familiar with the incinerator (which we still don't know for sure was even used!) theorized that, if it had been used properly (sorry graphic), it would have left ash and bone fragments...which could still be used for DNA.

SB's assertion that they "handed her a box" (IIRC) tends to lend weight to the idea that the incinerator was used, but we still don't know for sure.

They could also have found TBs belongings such as clothing/ID/wedding band etc.

 

[cansleuther]

SB's assertion that they "handed her a box" (IIRC) tends to lend weight to the idea that the incinerator was used, but we still don't know for sure.

We definitely still don't know for sure. IMO a body that has been burned beyond recognition could not be embalmed and buried in the traditional sense, and cremation would be the only humane option to spare the family from having to see their loved one desecrated in such a heinous way. Unless an urn has been selected, cremains are presented to the family in a small cardboard box. They are often interred in this box as well. Although cremation has become increasingly common, there are many people who still do not believe in it and having it "forced" upon a loved one would make the entire situation even more devastating. JMO.

 

[Archangel7]

As to "what would be left", meaning would his teeth have been intact enough for dental identification, we still don't know. We don't know how he was burned, at what temperature or for how long. People more familiar with the incinerator (which we still don't know for sure was even used!) theorized that, if it had been used properly (sorry graphic), it would have left ash and bone fragments...which could still be used for DNA.

SB's assertion that they "handed her a box" (IIRC) tends to lend weight to the idea that the incinerator was used, but we still don't know for sure.

They could also have found TBs belongings such as clothing/ID/wedding band etc.

Teeth would tell the time and temperature of the burn. IMO
Which in turn would likely determine the possibility or not of the incinerator being used. IMO

 

[matou]

I seem to remember that bones will turn greyish-white under intense heat. I've seen burnt animal bones and this is how they looked.

 

[Archangel7]

I seem to remember that bones will turn greyish-white under intense heat. I've seen burnt animal bones and this is how they looked.

Both teeth and bone go through an appearance continuum when burned. IMO

I would also agree that "completely" burned bone would be greyish-white to bluish-white. They, along with teeth would likely go through shrinkage, changes in crystalline structure, etc., until they reach a point of mostly ash. IMO

I seem to remember a tow truck driver? mentioning something about burned ground and the tents or a tent was over that area, however I have googled with no results validating that. JMO

So I guess I'm wondering, if they had an incinerator why the burnt ground?
Also if the ground was used, why? When an incinerator was available. JMO

 

[bessie]

We definitely still don't know for sure. IMO a body that has been burned beyond recognition could not be embalmed and buried in the traditional sense, and cremation would be the only humane option to spare the family from having to see their loved one desecrated in such a heinous way. Unless an urn has been selected, cremains are presented to the family in a small cardboard box. They are often interred in this box as well. Although cremation has become increasingly common, there are many people who still do not believe in it and having it "forced" upon a loved one would make the entire situation even more devastating. JMO.

I concur on all points. Even though the word "charred" was not directly quoted from LE, I think it's likely an apt description. Had the burning progressed much beyond that state, LE wouldn't have made the announcement so quickly, IMO. Now I don't know a thing about operating an incinerator, but I'm going to guess that there's more to it than flipping an on/off switch. IF the incinerator was used, and my guess is correct, is it possible that an inexperienced user made a miscalculation which caused the machine to work inefficiently?

 

[MsSherlock]

Both teeth and bone go through an appearance continuum when burned. IMO

I would also agree that "completely" burned bone would be greyish-white to bluish-white. They, along with teeth would likely go through shrinkage, changes in crystalline structure, etc., until they reach a point of mostly ash. IMO

I seem to remember a tow truck driver? mentioning something about burned ground and the tents or a tent was over that area, however I have googled with no results validating that. JMO

So I guess I'm wondering, if they had an incinerator why the burnt ground?
Also if the ground was used, why? When an incinerator was available. JMO

JMHO, but I thought that maybe they burnt the seats there? Or, perhaps they burned other things non TB related in the past. The topography of the land there is really rolling hills-the area is very secluded from most angles-even the roadway to get into the field is secluded. IMO, with a graffiti handle of Say10...I can't help but think of sacrifices...geesh..I've been mixing too much Steven King with CSI! MOO

 

[Archangel7]

JMHO, but I thought that maybe they burnt the seats there? Or, perhaps they burned other things non TB related in the past. The topography of the land there is really rolling hills-the area is very secluded from most angles-even the roadway to get into the field is secluded. IMO, with a graffiti handle of Say10...I can't help but think of sacrifices...geesh..I've been mixing too much Steven King with CSI! MOO

No, maybe not too much on S. King. A satanic ritualistic cut would cause a mess in the truck/seat area. Although the seats could have been burned to destroy traces of other evidence too. Did they only burn the front?

Say for example, a Ram truck built in the Coahuila, Mexico Dodge Plant contained contraband that needed recovery, due to it slipping past the intended receiver. The seats would hold a lot of motive and would need disposal and DM & MS get a fee and a prize.

All kinds of possible angles....
All JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

Sorry to be so graphic, but I believe the incinerator would have to be emptied of ashes at some point in time. I recall LE stating that the ashes they found were more than they would expect from one person. So, I'm thinking if there was already something that had been burned in the incinerator, and it was simply added to, that it became necessary to empty an ash pan at some point, and may explain the 2 burned areas of grass.

 

[Sillybilly]

JMHO, but I thought that maybe they burnt the seats there? Or, perhaps they burned other things non TB related in the past. The topography of the land there is really rolling hills-the area is very secluded from most angles-even the roadway to get into the field is secluded. IMO, with a graffiti handle of Say10...I can't help but think of sacrifices...geesh..I've been mixing too much Steven King with CSI! MOO

Might not be that far out there MsSherlock. We have MS and his satanic moniker and ghastly movie-making. Obviously there are some peeps we can't discuss, but in rummaging, I've seen the odd thing that could possibly tie in with a satanic aspect. Maybe not ... could be coinkydink, but some coinkydinks are a bit hard to disregard.

 

[Archangel7]

That would make more sense than pretty much anything else sb or it caused the grass to catch on fire and they had to move it around. The manufacture's web does recommend a slab.
FAQ from their web....http://www.supernovamfg.com/faq.html

Do I need a concrete foundation?
We recommend that the incinerator be placed on a level concrete slab at least 3" thick. The appropriate dimensions are determined by the size of the unit and will be provided to you with your order.

 

[Archangel7]

Might not be that far out there MsSherlock. We have MS and his satanic moniker and ghastly movie-making. Obviously there are some peeps we can't discuss, but in rummaging, I've seen the odd thing that could possibly tie in with a satanic aspect. Maybe not ... could be coinkydink, but some coinkydinks are a bit hard to disregard.

Did we ever get a solid DOB for MS? I haven't found it yet.

 

[Sillybilly]

Did we ever get a solid DOB for MS? I haven't found it yet.

No, only his age (25), but he's one of 3 peeps that I would be interested in knowing DOB.

 

[robynhood]

Obviously Le had a reason to tell the bosma family that ...they had found T.B...so dam sad....as we know Le do NOT make identfications like that without >>>cause...and I believe >>>We will not know anything till Trial...I only had to watch one case unfold here ...and the horror we heard was NOT until court...IMO these suspects are not chirping at all...reminds of the sick mind of Michael Rafferty who still wants to think he is in Jail cause of Judge Heeny...SMH button needed here...sickos ..IMO strongly...robynhood..RIP T.B...this should have never ever happened..

 

[OneFineWire]

Nobody will ever forget Tim. My heart goes out to Sharlene and their little baby girl. I'm glad she's feeling these emotions, the anger. She's allowing herself to grieve. Watching clips of the interview, so heartbreaking, has me in tears.
Justice will be served.

 

[redheart]

As someone who grew up with parents who fell hook, line, and sinker for the Satanic Panic back in the 90s, I get dismayed when possible satanism or devil worship is brought up in these discussions, as I feel it just distracts many people. I think that true Satanic/occult/ritualistic crimes are extremely rare. There may be plenty of perps who claim "the devil made me do it", but that's opportunistic.

To me, there is nothing in this case at all to indicate an occult connection, unless you want it to, in which case it is easy to find things like a Dodge Ram and say, "Aha! A ram! That's a symbol of Satan." All MOO, of course, as I can't find any links to statistics about the prevalence of occult crimes right now.

 

[Archangel7]

As someone who grew up with parents who fell hook, line, and sinker for the Satanic Panic back in the 90s, I get dismayed when possible satanism or devil worship is brought up in these discussions, as I feel it just distracts many people. I think that true Satanic/occult/ritualistic crimes are extremely rare. There may be plenty of perps who claim "the devil made me do it", but that's opportunistic.

To me, there is nothing in this case at all to indicate an occult connection, unless you want it to, in which case it is easy to find things like a Dodge Ram and say, "Aha! A ram! That's a symbol of Satan." All MOO, of course, as I can't find any links to statistics about the prevalence of occult crimes right now.

There are potentially satanic signs associated with people near this event depending on where one looks and whether the signs are intentionally satanic or just blissful/youthful stupidity. IMO

 

[redheart]

That's my point - things like a loser drug dealing 25 year old using the handle Say10 doesn't indicate satanism to me, just a juvenile attempt to be "dangerous".