GUILTY UT - Alexander, 10, & Benjie Vidinhar, 4, murdered, West Point, May 2013

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TheDuchess, I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else by speaking about the adoption of these children. We have adopted children in our family, too, so please know that I meant no harm. What I was thinking and wanting to know is if the other children resented the newest children being brought in. Did anyone sit down and talk it out like a family before bringing in more children? I know not every family does this and it is ultimately up to the parents to decide how many children to have but do hope that how it affects the others in the household is always considered, adoption or natural. Did the other kids resent the fostering of children in a home they shared with their parents?
I've known people with large families that feel so alone because there isn't a lot of time for each child. Then again, I have a family member having issues because of his brothers coming after him simply because he wanted to be the only child, (he was 7 when the first one followed).
Again, my apologies to anyone I offended. Just trying to make some sense out of a senseless situation.

MOO
 
When I look at the pictures of the 15 yr old, I think he may have been kind of a social outcast at school. He looks like a studious kid that would not necessarily have a lot of 'popularity' or lots of 'cool' things to do. He may have even been bullied. And IF SO, he may have been upset about being stuck at home babysitting, instead of having the chance to go out and make some friends and do things others were doing at night. He may have been resentful. JMO
 
menmo said:
TheDuchess, I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else by speaking about the adoption of these children. We have adopted children in our family, too, so please know that I meant no harm. What I was thinking and wanting to know is if the other children resented the newest children being brought in. Did anyone sit down and talk it out like a family before bringing in more children? I know not every family does this and it is ultimately up to the parents to decide how many children to have but do hope that how it affects the others in the household is always considered, adoption or natural. Did the other kids resent the fostering of children in a home they shared with their parents?
I've known people with large families that feel so alone because there isn't a lot of time for each child. Then again, I have a family member having issues because of his brothers coming after him simply because he wanted to be the only child, (he was 7 when the first one followed).
Again, my apologies to anyone I offended. Just trying to make some sense out of a senseless situation.

MOO
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It isn't that I am offended or what you said was offensive. I just wanted to make a statement before we went too far down a certain path.

People have "issues" for so many different reasons. Some of them are genuine, i.e. mental disorders, abuse, etc... Others are perceived-i.e. didn't like being the oldest, didn't like being the youngest, parents were too involved, parents weren't involved enough, etc... I do not know your family member, but having issues because he didn't want little brothers and sisters is really a sign of a larger issue. We all have our family situations and sibling rivalry is always a part of it for families of more than one child. I can name just as many people I know from large families that LOVED being a part of a large family than those who resented it. A good example is my sister-in-law. She was raised as one of 8 children and the only thing she resents is kids who think they should have it all, i.e. a car for their 16th birthday, lavish Christmas presents, expensive clothes. In her opinion, they had enough to eat and a roof over their heads and had to ride the bus, get a job for their own spending money and wear hand-me-downs. She is a hard-working grateful person who takes nothing for granted and is appreciative of the hard work her parents have done to raise the family. She is very close with ALL of her siblings and her parents.

I guess it just gives me the heebee jeebies to think that a child could ever feel resentful for simply being asked to pitch in and do their fair share in a household, regardless of the situation.
 
I realize that the adoption issue is a sensitive one.
I am very involved in the international adoption community.
I also don't normally refer to kids as "adopted."

In this case at least 3 of the brothers have names starting with A and we CANNOT use their names.
Since we don't have an exact age on the biological brother... I'm not sure how else to refer to them.
"The 4 year old, the 10 year old, the 15 year old and the 11/12 year old" seems pretty confusing.

But just looking at the facts: We have 4 brothers here. 2 biological and 2 adopted.
The 2 adopted ones were killed. That is simply the facts as we have them.

I would like to know why that is.

This would be a topic if he'd killed both sisters, all of his brothers, or only the biological brother.
WHO the victim is often goes to motive. That's what we are looking at here.

Was there some reason the biological one wasn't home?
Or would the brother have spared him no matter what?

I think it is also SO important to remember that not every adopted child adjusts well.
Not every adoption has a happy fairytale ending with a happy family unit.
Reactive Attachment Disorder is VERY real... and I have seen families torn apart by it.

I also know children who have been VERY angry by the adoption of another sibling.
It took attention off of THEM and they were extremely angry that these other kids got that attention.
Just like many kids resent a new biological sibling. That can still occur if the child is adopted instead.

Nobody is implying that adoption causes murder, but ANY new sibling certainly brings stress.

So for ME it isn't a stretch to believe a sibling might be resentful of any siblings, adopted or biological.
Either because of their own issues or because of issues the other children might have.

In THIS case, we have a boy who killed his two adopted brothers.
The Sheriff seems to believe that is connected, since he mentioned it.
Since the boy is talking bluntly, I wouldn't be surprised if he indicated it was relevant. :twocents:
 
MsFacetious said:
I realize that the adoption issue is a sensitive one.
I am very involved in the international adoption community.
I also don't normally refer to kids as "adopted."

In this case at least 3 of the brothers have names starting with A and we CANNOT use their names.
Since we don't have an exact age on the biological brother... I'm not sure how else to refer to them.
"The 4 year old, the 10 year old, the 15 year old and the 11/12 year old" seems pretty confusing.

But just looking at the facts: We have 4 brothers here. 2 biological and 2 adopted.
The 2 adopted ones were killed. That is simply the facts as we have them.

I would like to know why that is.

This would be a topic if he'd killed both sisters, all of his brothers, or only the biological brother.
WHO the victim is often goes to motive. That's what we are looking at here.

Was there some reason the biological one wasn't home?
Or would the brother have spared him no matter what?

I think it is also SO important to remember that not every adopted child adjusts well.
Not every adoption has a happy fairytale ending with a happy family unit.
Reactive Attachment Disorder is VERY real... and I have seen families torn apart by it.

I also know children who have been VERY angry by the adoption of another sibling.
It took attention off of THEM and they were extremely angry that these other kids got that attention.
Just like many kids resent a new biological sibling. That can still occur if the child is adopted instead.

Nobody is implying that adoption causes murder, but ANY new sibling certainly brings stress.

So for ME it isn't a stretch to believe a sibling might be resentful of any siblings, adopted or biological.
Either because of their own issues or because of issues the other children might have.

In THIS case, we have a boy who killed his two adopted brothers.
The Sheriff seems to believe that is connected, since he mentioned it.
Since the boy is talking bluntly, I wouldn't be surprised if he indicated it was relevant. :twocents:
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WEll Said. And I have to admit, for the sake of the adoption community, I am glad it was not an adoptee that murdered his siblings. It seems like there is already enough of that stereotype of an adopted child that murders a family member. This time it is the other way around.
 
katydid23 said:
WEll Said. And I have to admit, for the sake of the adoption community, I am glad it was not an adoptee that murdered his siblings. It seems like there is already enough of that stereotype of an adopted child that murders a family member. This time it is the other way around.
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I actually had the opposite thought. "Not another adopted child murdered by his family."
My first thought was "PLEASE don't let these kids be adopted internationally!"

I was very relieved that it appears they were US adoptions.
We already have too many kids dying in other countries because we are no longer allowed to adopt them.

Another international adoptee getting murdered would NOT be good for the kids left over there.

http://adoption.about.com/od/adoptionrights/p/russian_children_murdered_by_adoptive_parent.htm

This is a great article about the Russian Adoption Ban. It's worth noting this is a GREAT orphanage.
Many other kids internationally are NOT being cared for. They are starving, ignored in a crib 23 hours a day.

http://adoption.about.com/od/adoptionrights/p/russian_children_murdered_by_adoptive_parent.htm

I'm VERY relieved that this likely won't have huge consequences for other parents trying to adopt.
It would only compound the tragedy if more children died in orphanages because of this case.
 
MsFacetious said:
I actually had the opposite thought. "Not another adopted child murdered by his family."
My first thought was "PLEASE don't let these kids be adopted internationally!"

I was very relieved that it appears they were US adoptions.
We already have too many kids dying in other countries because we are no longer allowed to adopt them.

Another international adoptee getting murdered would NOT be good for the kids left over there.

http://adoption.about.com/od/adoptionrights/p/russian_children_murdered_by_adoptive_parent.htm

This is a great article about the Russian Adoption Ban. It's worth noting this is a GREAT orphanage.
Many other kids internationally are NOT being cared for. They are starving, ignored in a crib 23 hours a day.

http://adoption.about.com/od/adoptionrights/p/russian_children_murdered_by_adoptive_parent.htm

I'm VERY relieved that this likely won't have huge consequences for other parents trying to adopt.
It would only compound the tragedy if more children died in orphanages because of this case.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying. But my adopted friends are very sensitive to the faulty stereotype that exists that adopted kids are 'cray cray.' It is very unnerving and unfortunate.

I cannot understand why this 15 yr old stabbed his little brothers to death!!!!
 
katydid23 said:
I understand what you are saying. But my adopted friends are very sensitive to the faulty stereotype that exists that adopted kids are 'cray cray.' It is very unnerving and unfortunate.

I cannot understand why this 15 yr old stabbed his little brothers to death!!!!
Click to expand...

See and I can't think of a real high profile case where an adopted sibling killed.
I can think of 2 cases in the last year, (Galen Stevenson and Tony Day) but neither made huge headlines.

However, when it's an adopted child who is killed, it makes international news.
If it makes your friends feel any better, I have never even heard that stereotype. :seeya:
My brother and I are not adopted and we might be less cray cray if we had been! :floorlaugh:
 
I know very little about this case, and am just now jumping in.

I wonder if the adoption thing was mentioned, if some of the siblings didn't have the same last names? Like, just as a clarification. My best friend has adopted 6 (in the process of another) children from the foster system. They have all and some had different last names before. Other then that, I can't understand why it was even mentioned. Unless it goes to motive, but why would they give that information out right now?

Just thinking out loud here!!
 
TheDuchess said:
It isn't that I am offended or what you said was offensive. I just wanted to make a statement before we went too far down a certain path.

People have "issues" for so many different reasons. Some of them are genuine, i.e. mental disorders, abuse, etc... Others are perceived-i.e. didn't like being the oldest, didn't like being the youngest, parents were too involved, parents weren't involved enough, etc... I do not know your family member, but having issues because he didn't want little brothers and sisters is really a sign of a larger issue. We all have our family situations and sibling rivalry is always a part of it for families of more than one child. I can name just as many people I know from large families that LOVED being a part of a large family than those who resented it. A good example is my sister-in-law. She was raised as one of 8 children and the only thing she resents is kids who think they should have it all, i.e. a car for their 16th birthday, lavish Christmas presents, expensive clothes. In her opinion, they had enough to eat and a roof over their heads and had to ride the bus, get a job for their own spending money and wear hand-me-downs. She is a hard-working grateful person who takes nothing for granted and is appreciative of the hard work her parents have done to raise the family. She is very close with ALL of her siblings and her parents.

I guess it just gives me the heebee jeebies to think that a child could ever feel resentful for simply being asked to pitch in and do their fair share in a household, regardless of the situation.
Click to expand...

I agree. I can remember sibling rivalry with my sisters somewhat and fighting but never considered stabbing them. Even when I was a moody fifteen year old. I think it is logical to consider this boy might have some isses or that the parents showed blatant favortism for other children. It has happened that adopted children were given preferential treatment over biological. Of course this is all conjecture but my point is that typical families, and I specifically use the word typical over "normal", because everyone has some dysfunction; do not have children murdering others. There is usually a reason and if rivalry was the cause according to LE the reasons for the rivalry could frighteningly common and that is scary.
 
IMO it's important for children to have a voice because children w/o voices often grow up to be adults w/o voices. IMO when parents bring more children into the family via any method then it is unwise to decide that the older children will assume the added responsibilites which come w/ increasing the size of the family. IMO many families would be smaller if parents did not have the power to transfer chores and responsibilities to the older children. yes, it develops character, teaches generosity, etc but it can also sometimes foster feelings of helplessness, resentment and anger which are directed inward because there is no other permissible outlet. sometimes those inner feelings become too much to bear and result in a tragedy
 
gramcracker said:
IMO it's important for children to have a voice because children w/o voices often grow up to be adults w/o voices. IMO when parents bring more children into the family via any method then it is unwise to decide that the older children will assume the added responsibilites which come w/ increasing the size of the family. IMO many families would be smaller if parents did not have the power to transfer chores and responsibilities to the older children. yes, it develops character, teaches generosity, etc but it can also sometimes foster feelings of helplessness, resentment and anger which are directed inward because there is no other permissible outlet. sometimes those inner feelings become too much to bear and result in a tragedy
Click to expand...

I appreciate your opinion. I really do and did notice you mention it was just your opinion. In my opinion, it is just the opposite. I believe that I would error on the side of building a large, loving family and instill a sense of responsibility and character in my children over worrying about them being resentful. My middle child just told me in an argument that it isn't fair that he is the middle child. He doesn't get to do things his older brother does and everyone "sides" with his little sister because she is the youngest. The reality of the situation could not be further from the truth, but for whatever reason, it is what he perceives it as. So I asked him-who should go? Should we get rid of his older brother or his little sister? Or perhaps we should get rid of them both so he can be an only child. Or maybe he ought to go live with another family? Of course, he realized the ridiculousness of the proposal and knew I didn't mean it. But at the end of the argument, he had no answer. He realized and needs to accept the fact that he is indeed the middle child and barring any horrible tragedy, which he obviously would not want, it is his lot in life to be the middle child and he needs to accept it for what it is and make the most out of it.

My oldest thinks he has too much responsibility because he is the oldest and we always side with the younger ones. My youngest thinks it is unfair that she doesn't get to do everything her brothers get to do.

I know plenty of only children who think that it is unfair that they never got to have a sibling.

It is what it is. And at the end of the day, you have to learn to live with what you are given in life and deal with it-because life is never going to be "fair." It just is what it is and you do the best you can with what you have. JMO
 
TheDuchess said:
I appreciate your opinion. I really do and did notice you mention it was just your opinion. In my opinion, it is just the opposite. I believe that I would error on the side of building a large, loving family and instill a sense of responsibility and character in my children over worrying about them being resentful. My middle child just told me in an argument that it isn't fair that he is the middle child. He doesn't get to do things his older brother does and everyone "sides" with his little sister because she is the youngest. The reality of the situation could not be further from the truth, but for whatever reason, it is what he perceives it as. So I asked him-who should go? Should we get rid of his older brother or his little sister? Or perhaps we should get rid of them both so he can be an only child. Or maybe he ought to go live with another family? Of course, he realized the ridiculousness of the proposal and knew I didn't mean it. But at the end of the argument, he had no answer. He realized and needs to accept the fact that he is indeed the middle child and barring any horrible tragedy, which he obviously would not want, it is his lot in life to be the middle child and he needs to accept it for what it is and make the most out of it.

My oldest thinks he has too much responsibility because he is the oldest and we always side with the younger ones. My youngest thinks it is unfair that she doesn't get to do everything her brothers get to do.

I know plenty of only children who think that it is unfair that they never got to have a sibling.

It is what it is. And at the end of the day, you have to learn to live with what you are given in life and deal with it-because life is never going to be "fair." It just is what it is and you do the best you can with what you have. JMO
Click to expand...
Good post and I definitely see your point.
When my kids were growing up (we only had two-a boy and a girl) they each would take turns it seemed saying that the other was my favorite. I had enough one day when they were teenagers and my son came to me complaining of how much his sister was our favorite and put out the reasons why. His sister was arguing that wasn't true and that he was the favorite and pointed out her reasons for feeling that way. I had enough. Really. I said to my son he was right, I told him he caught me. She was my favorite. The look on his face was shock and then I turned to her and told her the same thing only my son was my favorite. Look of shock from her, too, then they each looked at each other. I said to my son you are my favorite son, and turned to my daughter and said you are my favorite daughter. I told them if we had 15 kids they would all be our favorites. I meant that, too.
It's just that with some kids like mine they said it and knew it really wasn't true. The youngest was always wishing she was the oldest because her brother got to do more because he was older.The oldest was always thinking the youngest had it easiest because she was "the baby". Neither of them could be farther from the truth. We had rules and ages for each person to do certain things. We didn't care who was the oldest and who was the youngest, and they knew that.

ETA: We never heard the you like so and so better than me argument again. Thank God.

MOO
 
'We never imagined this could happen,' says father of boys allegedly killed by brother

---------------------------------

He said he had called his wife to talk when he was informed of the troubling news. He was immediately flown home to Utah.

Despite what police say happened, the father said he does not want to see his 15-year-old son tried as an adult.
He said he would rather that his son receive a second chance later at life, and receive sort mental health treatment.

"Overall, (our son) has been a good kid, and we never imagined something like this could happen," he said.

He said their ten-year-old son Alex was always positive and loved everybody.
A funeral will be planned for Alex and his four year-old brother, Benjie although it likely won't take place this week.

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=25349974&n...-killed-by-brother&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-3
 
MsFacetious said:
'We never imagined this could happen,' says father of boys allegedly killed by brother

---------------------------------

He said he had called his wife to talk when he was informed of the troubling news. He was immediately flown home to Utah.

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=25349974&n...-killed-by-brother&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-3
Click to expand...

SBM BBM

What an odd statement! Troubling news is not the term I would use when being informed that my 15yo had likely killed my 10yo & 4yo.

Continued prayers for this family! I cannot imagine what they are going through.
 
It didn't surprise me.
I think it's just the way he talks. He writes that way as well.
Definitely odd, but not out of character for him, if that makes sense?
 
hollye said:
SBM BBM

What an odd statement! Troubling news is not the term I would use when being informed that my 15yo had likely killed my 10yo & 4yo.
Continued prayers for this family! I cannot imagine what they are going through.
Click to expand...

I believe it was the reporters choice of words, actually. He was simply summarizing his FB conversation with the father.
 
hollye said:
I wonder why this case is getting so much less attention than Leila's. :(
Click to expand...

There was no intruder story in this case... it was obvious who did it.
So there was no "public fear" or need for informing the public in this case. :twocents:

It's in Utah and not California. Cases like this in Utah rarely get as much attention. :waitasec:

I have seen it get more attention nationally and even worldwide than it has locally. :twocents:
 
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