Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #17 *ARREST*

[MyBelle]

Agreed. And the turning off of the cell phone is also some proof of kidnapping since it is so unusual.

That being said, I'm wondering if they have the substance of the text messages or just the fact they were texting. You could see they were texting from the phone records but that wouldn't necessarily show you the content. To have a content, it would have needed to be on his phone and not deleted.

Cell phone providers store text messages for several days on their servers.

JMO

 

[Blue Amethyst]

I have reusable cord ties, but amazed at the cited use of the presumed locking ties, as well as the quantities!

My grandson zipped one tight onto his finger. Thankfully I managed to slip under it with a heavy pair of scissors and clip it off. Now I hide them.

 

[Gwinnetian]

Is there a link to the Air BnB photos @AmandaReckonwith ??

 

[10ofRods]

“It was determined by the Medical Examiner’s office that Lueck suffered blunt force trauma to the left side of her skull resulting in significant intracranial hemorrhaging, which would have been fatal. Preliminary determination shows the manner of death to be homicide.”
BBM


1. The “would have” - why does it say would have? Aren’t they able to tell in the brain if there was hemorrhaging? Should we assume her brain was inside her skull?

2. The death by homocide. They aren’t necessarily saying the blow to head was the cause of death, correct? Would they NOT be telling another potential cause of death or possibly are forensics not complete in order to know for sure?

Well, even bleeding in the brain is not necessarily immediately fatal. I take that phrase to mean that, left untreated (as it was), she would have succumbed to the injury if something else yet undiscovered did not kill her first. You know, like strangulation. Or a blow to some part of the body that isn't accounted for yet.

No, you should not assume her brain was inside her skull. Part of the skull was at his house, the rest was in Logan Canyon. In between her death and ending up in Logan Canyon, she was burned (apparently twice). Brains are pretty liquidy/delicate.

You could read it this way: someone dealt a death blow to Kenzie, by hitting her on the head. She could have been run over by a car after that and they don't know. But she would have died anyway.

What might be inside the skull are tell-tale signs of the degree of brain damage. This might require microscopic analysis that may or may not have been done at this point in time. What the coroner can confidently say is that she was dealt a death blow and obviously, did not receive medical treatment. She could have had multiple other soft tissue injuries that have now disappeared.

 

[MyBelle]

I agree. They did. We had indication from early on, even when they seemed to think, and others as well, that she may be missing of her own accord. It is an interesting thought though that companies often will not provide information, like cell phone companies, without a court order that we did hear she took a Lyft and the driver was cooperating, so Lyft cooperated without those things? It was not until later we heard the destination was the park.

Jmo.

A court order wouldn't be difficult to obtain in a case such as this one.

JMO

 

[Puzzled25]

Cell phone providers store text messages for several days on their servers.

JMO

I could be wrong but I don't think so.

Here's a post from Verizon a couple of years ago:

That's an interesting question, Trinidy. We do not have access to details of text messages. Only the court can subpoena those records. You can however log onto your My Verizon account and view your bill details to get the numbers that were used to text to and from. Does this help answer your question?

***

Maybe he kept them on his phone since we know he wasn't the brightest bulb out there and they have them that way. But wouldn't they originally found him, they only had the number

 

[ilovechili]

So it wasn't ever disclosed in the media because I know you would have that in your fact bank. . Your memory for facts is amazing.
Yes, reported very early on and at some point people were questioning if she were missing or just away by choice. I have considered the possibility the Lyft driver reported it, but I've really not seen anything that confirms that.

You are the one that actually made this click for me. My memory can be like that of an elephant unless you ask me what I had for lunch

I never thought about it until you asked the question. Honestly. The Lyft was much discussed before it ever moved to more of a missing investigation and not that she could be voluntarily missing type of thought.

People argued that the driver was not a suspect before there were any suspects.

You gave some real food for thought. It is quite possible the driver came forward on his own.

And all of this time later and the facts that we have and we have more than a few, the park, the Lyft and the pickup is still one of the biggest questions. And how she knew him if she did and what the relationship, if any, was.

Jmo.

Edited to clarify.

 

[Tealgrove]

I've done some reading on the whole SB/SD thing and I found it quite interesting as there really seems to be a negotiation of "terms" that happens.

So this got me to thinking, as it has really been bothering, me as I try to understand why a young woman would meet a man at 3:00 am in the morning, in a park, under the assumption that they had never previously met (in person).

I think that they may have had a long "negotiating" period. Texts/emails back and forth over a period of time. Among those communications would have been info about AA, info about ML, likes, dislikes, what the arrangement would be, etc. etc. After so much going back and forth and starting to "think" you know the other person at the other end of the text, a familiarity is born.

I can see texting back and forth, getting to know someone, sharing information and it's been ongoing for a while. Even though you haven't met, a bond has started to form.

The opportunity arrives to meet and unfortunately, ML has to leave to go home to attend her Grandmother's funeral. They stay in touch. They make arrangements. They both really want to meet each other. She's excited to meet AA. She thinks he's a good guy. Her gut didn't tell her differently. He hit all the sweet spots. He could have made her feel comfortable with him.

So while he's working his charms on her, she's liking this more and more - who wouldn't?

He's being charming. He's sad about her grandmother passing and hooks her. Let's get together. ML might even have been the one to suggest it. Whatever, one person or both of them decided that tonight was the night.

It all would have been fine except for the fact he wasn't who he said he was, and as soon as she got in that car, it all went bad.

I am beginning to think that they had never met before in person but a protracted period of texting, emailing, photo sharing etc., made ML feel comfortable and felt she "knew" him. That's why she was happy to see him (per the Lyft driver) when they arrived at the park. There was an excitement to the first meeting.

She just didn't know in time that she'd been had and that the guy behind the texts was a monster. And when she did realize it, it was too late.

I could be way off base, but this just dropped on me today and it was an Aha moment.

MOO

 

[PommyMommy]

A court order wouldn't be difficult to obtain in a case such as this one.

JMO

There was a delay in this case in getting the search warrants because they didn't have probable cause. They knew she took a Lyft to the park but they didn't have evidence as to whether or not she disappeared from there voluntarily. She's an adult and all that... Anyway, there was a huge sigh of relief on this thread when they finally announced they had obtained a warrant for her phone records. MOO

 

[1987]

I could be wrong but I don't think so.

Here's a post from Verizon a couple of years ago:

That's an interesting question, Trinidy. We do not have access to details of text messages. Only the court can subpoena those records. You can however log onto your My Verizon account and view your bill details to get the numbers that were used to text to and from. Does this help answer your question?

***

Maybe he kept them on his phone since we know he wasn't the brightest bulb out there and they have them that way. But wouldn't they originally found him, they only had the number

I don't know the hows or whys but if you move a sims card from one phone to another phone sometimes text that were thought to be long gone reappear. I had text from months back appear after I broke my phone and had to switch the card. I think Verizon offers a back up service that stores messages as one option.

 

[PommyMommy]

JUN 21, 2019
Friends and family search for missing U. student
A desperate search is underway for a 23-year-old Salt Lake City woman and University of Utah college student who suddenly vanished. In her last text to her mother she said she had arrived at the Salt Lake International Airport and was taking a Lyft car home.

 

[Boxer]

I too have noticed that they have never placed him nor his car at the park, it almost seems as if they avoid doing so. They have placed his phone there. I keep it in the back of my mind. I do think it was likely him due to the contacts between them and the phone but I always try to remind myself in a case that what they don't say can be extremely significant and the park, the park, the park is the thing that still remains vague... Well many things do, for instance, we have no idea what if anything they found inside the house or garage, etc. We have no idea what they have found regarding his life, resources, activities, etc. They went back yesterday to the house... For what...?

Even though we have had many details shared, how they knew each other, for how long and what the relationship was is being held, the motive is being held, and the park information seems as well to be held (Lyft driver, details provided by him, so forth) and kept fairly vague. We now have some time frames at the park which, if anything, to me, leave it just as confusing... Maybe a one minute total time frame at best for all to happen...

I listened yesterday again to the reporter that talked to the "friend" who warned her about AJ and she stated that he said they knew each other before she went to California or were in contact at least (paraphrasing). It did not start while she was in CA, it was prior to even this funeral or trip, if one believes this guy and the reporter, and I see no reason not to at this point. This was not some find him that day as a sex connection/distraction just that particular day out of the blue, at least not imo. He was not some brand new contact for her...

I have not said much since the PC and charges yesterday, have just been reading and absorbing off and on... Just jumping off of your post to make a comment.

All jmo.

MOO "Shaken Guy" information is all his word for it.

 

[Puzzled25]

I've done some reading on the whole SB/SD thing and I found it quite interesting as there really seems to be a negotiation of "terms" that happens.

So this got me to thinking, as it has really been bothering, me as I try to understand why a young woman would meet a man at 3:00 am in the morning, in a park, under the assumption that they had never previously met (in person).

I think that they may have had a long "negotiating" period. Texts/emails back and forth over a period of time. Among those communications would have been info about AA, info about ML, likes, dislikes, what the arrangement would be, etc. etc. After so much going back and forth and starting to "think" you know the other person at the other end of the text, a familiarity is born.

I can see texting back and forth, getting to know someone, sharing information and it's been ongoing for a while. Even though you haven't met, a bond has started to form.

The opportunity arrives to meet and unfortunately, ML has to leave to go home to attend her Grandmother's funeral. They stay in touch. They make arrangements. They both really want to meet each other. She's excited to meet AA. She thinks he's a good guy. Her gut didn't tell her differently. He hit all the sweet spots. He could have made her feel comfortable with him.

So while he's working his charms on her, she's liking this more and more - who wouldn't?

He's being charming. He's sad about her grandmother passing and hooks her. Let's get together. ML might even have been the one to suggest it. Whatever, one person or both of them decided that tonight was the night.

It all would have been fine except for the fact he wasn't who he said he was, and as soon as she got in that car, it all went bad.

I am beginning to think that they had never met before in person but a protracted period of texting, emailing, photo sharing etc., made ML feel comfortable and felt she "knew" him. That's why she was happy to see him (per the Lyft driver) when they arrived at the park. There was an excitement to the first meeting.

She just didn't know in time that she'd been had and that the guy behind the texts was a monster. And when she did realize it, it was too late.

I could be way off base, but this just dropped on me today and it was an Aha moment.

MOO

Some of the things you say makes sense although there is absolutely no evidence he was on such a site. But, having been on the site, I can tell you the chance of someone meeting at 3 a.m. in a park from that site for the first time is somewhere between slim and none. People meet in public places and let their friends know where they are. Plus, part of that discussion often involves exchange of social media so both parties know who they are.

We do know they were both on Tinder and bumble and frequent bars in downtown SLC. But what you described wouldn't be much different from Tinder or bumble.

 

[Roadette]

From what I can tell iMessages are stored on the cloud while text messages are stored on the phone when someone has an iPhone.

I was able to set up my Apple devices so my imessages flow through to all of them (even devices not turned on for weeks). This doesn’t happen with my iPhone’s texts. I can’t remember what happened to the text messages when my phone turned to a brick and Verizon needed to replace it and my sim though.

 

[ilovechili]

They would have found the charge for the Lyft on her bank records.

JMO

Right. Which if it came early on must have been a joint account. She is an adult, no one could have accessed her records unless they had log-in and pw. That is possible at her age, her parents etc. may have. Or a friend.

 

[Boxer]

I too have noticed that they have never placed him nor his car at the park, it almost seems as if they avoid doing so. They have placed his phone there. I keep it in the back of my mind. I do think it was likely him due to the contacts between them and the phone but I always try to remind myself in a case that what they don't say can be extremely significant and the park, the park, the park is the thing that still remains vague... Well many things do, for instance, we have no idea what if anything they found inside the house or garage, etc. We have no idea what they have found regarding his life, resources, activities, etc. They went back yesterday to the house... For what...?

Even though we have had many details shared, how they knew each other, for how long and what the relationship was is being held, the motive is being held, and the park information seems as well to be held (Lyft driver, details provided by him, so forth) and kept fairly vague. We now have some time frames at the park which, if anything, to me, leave it just as confusing... Maybe a one minute total time frame at best for all to happen...

I listened yesterday again to the reporter that talked to the "friend" who warned her about AJ and she stated that he said they knew each other before she went to California or were in contact at least (paraphrasing). It did not start while she was in CA, it was prior to even this funeral or trip, if one believes this guy and the reporter, and I see no reason not to at this point. This was not some find him that day as a sex connection/distraction just that particular day out of the blue, at least not imo. He was not some brand new contact for her...

I have not said much since the PC and charges yesterday, have just been reading and absorbing off and on... Just jumping off of your post to make a comment.

All jmo.

MOO this sounds like a proposal for an alternative theory, that someone else had AA's phone at Hatch Park?

 

[Mentalheadslap2018]

“It was determined by the Medical Examiner’s office that Lueck suffered blunt force trauma to the left side of her skull resulting in significant intracranial hemorrhaging, which would have been fatal. Preliminary determination shows the manner of death to be homicide.”
BBM



I have questions about this statement. I’m attempting to read between the lines and honestly thinking about whether he followed any ritual type murders or sacrifices he may have been exposed to in Nigeria, Youruba culture. I have read about body parts being offered as sacrifices and such and I’m just curious about this part.

1. The “would have” - why does it say would have? Aren’t they able to tell in the brain if there was hemorrhaging? Should we assume her brain was inside her skull?

2. The death by homocide. They aren’t necessarily saying the blow to head was the cause of death, correct? Would they NOT be telling another potential cause of death or possibly are forensics not complete in order to know for sure?

Thank you for asking this! Anyone have any insight and/or experience that would help explain why it might have been stated this way? BBM: “It was determined by the Medical Examiner’s office that Lueck suffered blunt force trauma to the left side of her skull resulting in significant intracranial hemorrhaging, which would have been fatal. Preliminary determination shows the manner of death to be homicide.” TIA.

 

[MyBelle]

I could be wrong but I don't think so.

Here's a post from Verizon a couple of years ago:

That's an interesting question, Trinidy. We do not have access to details of text messages. Only the court can subpoena those records. You can however log onto your My Verizon account and view your bill details to get the numbers that were used to text to and from. Does this help answer your question?

***

Maybe he kept them on his phone since we know he wasn't the brightest bulb out there and they have them that way. But wouldn't they originally found him, they only had the number

Service representatives wouldn't have access to an individual's data that is on a server. Gaining access to data on servers does require a court order. Once that court order is received, providers act fairly quickly.

JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

Right. Which if it came early on must have been a joint account. She is an adult, no one could have accessed her records unless they had log-in and pw. That is possible at her age, her parents etc. may have. Or a friend.

Didn't her friends access ML's SM when she went missing? Perhaps she had her accounts open on a laptop or other device at home. I might be wrong, but I think they had access????

jmo

 

[Optics]

ETA because I hit enter too soon

RE: VA loans. If he joined 6 years ago and finished AIT 6 months later, he will be eligible 6 months from now. Benefits kick in upon graduation, not counting from the day of enlistment.

Also clarifying that the VA itself does not give loans, they secure them but still come from a regular lender like any other home loan. There's no way you could convince a bank to give you a VA loan without proof.

He is not eligible he was discharged, he did not complete anything. If I'm not mistaken he worked in "IT" he never did boot camp etc etc. The only thing he's "eligible" for is a murder conviction imho.