GUILTY UT - Michele MacNeill, 50, found dead in bathtub, Pleasant Grove, 11 April 2007 - #3

[Bravo]

We can go to and fro on all of the ME's reports. What we do know is that all those meds in concert not only depress the CNS but would not have a person rendered to draw a bath. Cripe I have an extremely high tolerance to CNS drugs. You give me one I will likely talk your head off. Give me more I am gondy. Add some Ambien I would pray I woke up in the morning. In that scenario I would never draw a bath. Nor would I be capable. Nonsense. Pure nonsense.

 

[CUCKOOHEAD]

Question for the medical people on this board.

I know that if a person is found dead inside a burning building but has no soot/ash in his windpipe or lungs that he was dead before the fire began.

This last doctor said cause was combination of bad heart and drugs. Right?

Michele wasn't dead when she was submerged in the tub by MacNeill. Her lungs according to CPR people had several cups of water in them. To the point that two CPR'ers had to go get their clothes changed.

Why didn't this doctor say drowning was a contributing factor?

 

[renatae]

Quote:
Originally Posted by popsicle
FL jurys really are screwed up. :lol: 2nd day of deliberations and jury has no idea. They did announce they are leaving at 4pm to take their kids trick-or-treating! (Sean Taylor trial)

OH don't even go there lol :banghead:
__________________
All posts are my opinion only unless supported by a link
Keep calm and carry on

Yes, there was an earlier reference to FL juries and I think I've reached my tolerance limit for today. LOL. J/K

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Question for the medical people on this board.

I know that if a person is found dead inside a burning building but has no soot/ash in his windpipe or lungs that he was dead before the fire began.

This last doctor said cause was combination of bad heart and drugs. Right?

Michele wasn't dead when she was submerged in the tub by MacNeill. Her lungs according to CPR people had several cups of water in them. To the point that two CPR'ers had to go get their clothes changed.

Why didn't this doctor say drowning was a contributing factor?

Great point.

 

[CUCKOOHEAD]

Sounds like jury ?s

 

[bsk]

Jury questions (paraphrased):

Q: If she'd been given Arnica, would it have been found?
A: I don't know what that is.

Q: Can someone suffocate in water without signs of drowning?
A: Yes. It's called "dry lung drowning". He explains further.

And crap - I'm getting endless buffering now.

 

[CUCKOOHEAD]

Dry Lung Drowning sounds awful. Where the muscles in your throat close up after one gulp of water and you suffocate in/under water.

 

[Ricki]

Sounds like someone on the jury has a medical background.

 

[popsicle]

Is Dr. Perper on the witness list?

tia

I haven't seen the witness list so not positive.

 

[Nore]

Considering the drugs in her system so many days after surgery I cant see why they didnt question why. I have given this case a lot of thought. She would have needed help getting to the bathroom! If this so called Doctor gets off he is a dead man walking. He will go to prison for other things (I believe).
He will never practice medicine again, Lawyer career is over, kids dont want him, his treasured "ladies" will bail out. He deserves it all. Maybe someone will just catch him in the tub and drown him. He is a blight on the family.ullhair:

 

[Softail]

Missed all afternoon, sounds like this witness hasn't helped much. :sigh:

Thanks for all the updates! :blowkiss:

 

[bsk]

There was some additional question related to cardiac samples I missed.

Q: What is a QTC interval.
A: Explains what it is in EKG. Can indicate risk of arrhythmia.

Q: What made you think drowning was a possibility?
A: Lung weights were elevated. (Gives details and possibilities of blood, water, etc.) Could also be due to extended CPR.

 

[scorekeeper]

Questions

if MM had been given Arnica - would there be evidence - not sure what Arnica is

is it possible to suffocate in water without showing drowning - yes there is a condition called dry lung drowning

How many blood samples did Dr. Frickee take from MM's heart - she did take blood from the heart - not sure from where - did take 3 samples

??redactions on autopsy

What is a
QTC wave

measure of time between the Q and T blip

?
the lungs weighs were increased
from edema caused by water or blood backup in lungs
also found in people with prolonged resuscitation

only redactions were in Dr. Frickee's hand written notes/report

 

[smeck]

I am concerned about the Arnica question....sounds like a juror who is trying to play detective....IMO

 

[Plumeria5]

"Arnica montana is commonly used in herbal ointments and oils applied on the skin as an anti-inflammatory and pain-relieving agent for aches, bruises, and sprains on unbroken skin. Highly diluted homeopathic preparations are considered safe and are widely used for the treatment of injuries. However, full doses of arnica may be toxic when taken by mouth. Arnica may also be damaging to the heart, resulting in high blood pressure."

So MM could have been slipping some of this over the years to her to cause her high blood pressure and damage her heart. Juror knows his/her stuff!!http://www.healthline.com/natstandardcontent/arnica


Very good for prosecution. Future jury foreman I hope!!

 

[popsicle]

Arnica montana is commonly used in herbal ointments and oils applied on the skin as an anti-inflammatory and pain-relieving agent for aches, bruises, and sprains on unbroken skin. Highly diluted homeopathic preparations are considered safe and are widely used for the treatment of injuries. However, full doses of arnica may be toxic when taken by mouth. Arnica may also be damaging to the heart, resulting in high blood pressure.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has declared arnica an unsafe herb due to adverse effects reported when taken by mouth. In contrast, the German market offers over 100 preparations of arnica to its consumers. In Canada, arnica is not allowed for use as a non-medicinal ingredient for oral (by mouth) use products.

http://www.healthline.com/natstandardcontent/arnica

 

[CUCKOOHEAD]

There was some additional question related to cardiac samples I missed.

Q: What is a QTC interval.
A: Explains what it is in EKG. Can indicate risk of arrhythmia.

Q: What made you think drowning was a possibility?
A: Lung weights were elevated. (Gives details and possibilities of blood, water, etc.) Could also be due to extended CPR.

So this doctor is saying that drowning is a possiblity? Gees, is there a chance Michele was shot to death?

 

[websurfer]

see everybody back here tomorrow have a safe Halloween!

 

[Bravo]

8:30 a.m. 10:30 EST tomorrow

 

[21merc7]

I don't think you can buy arnica in an oral formulation in the U.S. It is not to be taken orally, it is only for topical use (ointments and creams).

If you were purchasing anything for oral arnica, you would have to whip it up yourself. (And should never do that!)

I have noticed Walmart carries the dried flowers in the spice section of the Hispanic foods, it is marked not to use orally, but it concerns me. You would still have to make your own mixture, but still.