GUILTY UT - Michele MacNeill, 50, found dead in bathtub, Pleasant Grove, 11 April 2007 - #4

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Having watched more of this cross exam, I don't think Spencer is intentionally being rude to shake up Dr Perper -- I think Spencer is frustrated because he is not able to get Perper to answer the way Spencer hopes he will.
 
FYI - good reading :seeya:

http://www.courtchatter.com/2013/11/macneill-trial-day-10-recap.html

"Coming Tuesday (no court Monday)!

Among the witnesses scheduled for testimony Tuesday are:
The four inmates that will testify (anonymously for their own protection) against MacNeill
Investigator Jeff Robinson
Sergeant Spencer Cannon from the Utah County Sheriff's Office
Note that court begins at 10:00am MST on Tuesday to give jurors a chance to vote.

The State may rest on Tuesday after the testimony of the above named witnesses."
 
Eh, finished watching cross exam and jury questions. I think Perper is solid and there are good scientific reasons for his conclusions.
 
Nana46 said:
I guess I need to watch this tomorrow altho I don't think I can handle Spencer for very long....I am a huge fan of Dr. Perper and I don't want to see him uncomfortable. I always miss the interesting stuff....dang work!
Click to expand...

I would not say Perper was uncomfortable at all. He was schooling Spencer.
 
I just asked Dr. Zuri several of the medical questions that came up today.

First, whether or not you are constipated has no bearing on your likelihood to drown. LOL Dr. Zuri said that was idiotic questioning. :floorlaugh:

Secondly, Regarding Michelle's being able to fight while sedated and drowning: Dr. Zuri says all drownings occur when the conscious brain can no longer recognize that the body is under water and the primitive reflexes cause the diaphragm to contract, the trachea to open, causing water to be sucked into the lungs. Michelle's conscious brain no longer knew that she was under water and shouldn't hold her breath. Conscious brain is when you are awake and functioning. Dr. Zuri said Michelle was unconscious either from sedation or other factors when she was in the water and could not recognize the need to surface for air.

Dr. Zuri gives very long detailed explanations that I tend to tune out after 5 minutes. I think I have this right. I wanted to make sure Cuckoohead's question was properly answered. BTW, that run on sentence above was just part of the explanation he gave. I typed what he said. OMG. :facepalm:
 
The following is snipped from CNN Transcript - Nancy Grace Show which aired Thursday, 10/31/13.

Snipped:

GREG SKORDAS, FORMER SALT LAKE COUNTY DEPUTY D.A. DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Dr. Dupre stated it probably better than I can. And that is these medical examiners all work in a vacuum. They work on the body that they have before them. And the body of evidence that they have before them. The jury gets to hear the whole picture. They get to hear Martin`s manners, his mannerisms, the testimony of the daughters, the testimony of the police. The people that arrived to exhume the body and look at the body. The medical examiner only looks at what`s on the table in front of him or her.

Snipped:

SKORDAS: Well, they`ve got a lot more witnesses they`re going to call and there are apparently some jailhouse informants who are going to say that Martin made some statements to them that are akin to admissions. I think that they`re not through with some of the family and friends as well, but this case is going to unfold I think pretty clearly in the next couple of days, even more than what you`ve seen earlier this week.

Source:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1310/31/ng.01.html
CNN - Transcripts: NANCY GRACE
U.S. Attorney to Open Federal Investigation into Kendrick Johnson`s Death; MacNeill Murder Trial
Aired October 31, 2013 - 20:00 ET
 
http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/12590375/cost-white-lies
THE COST OF WHITE LIES. MacNeill, Martin J.; MacNeill, Alexis // Family Practice Management;Mar2004, Vol. 11 Issue 3, p62
Discusses the importance of credibility for physicians involved in a malpractice lawsuit. Negative effect of any dishonest information on a physician's curriculum vitae, advertisements or other office materials; Need for physicians with misleading information on their curriculum vitae to discuss it with their attorney and decide how to approach the situation so that the opposing counsel does not use it to their advantage.
 
I am going through articles I saved (as this case unfolded) to FAVORITES re the Michelle MacNeill case.

If you have not read the article linked below, you might find it interesting. It is an older article which was published in the Deseret News dated 12/4/2010.
~~~~~

Martin MacNeill: Was his wife Michele's death accidental or was it murder?

By Sara Lenz and Brian West, Deseret News
Salt Lake City, UT

Published: Saturday, Dec. 4 2010 11:10 p.m. MST


Editor's note: For more than a year, Deseret News reporter Sara Lenz has investigated the life of Martin MacNeill. The information in this story comes from court documents, 911 calls, police reports, an autopsy report, a search warrant affidavit, psychology reports and dozens of interviews with investigators, attorneys, police officers, neighbors, victims and family members detailing why some believe MacNeill may have killed his wife, Michele.


MacNeill 911 call
(Click on Play at Linked article)


A scripted life?

Utah County investigator Jeff Robinson compares Martin MacNeill's life to the movie "Catch Me If You Can," but says the movie "paled in comparison."

MacNeill, the former Utah State Developmental Center clinical director and Pleasant Grove resident, is serving a prison sentence for fraud, forgery and identity theft. But investigators believe he spent a lifetime getting away with other crimes — including murder. And family sources expect a murder charge may be filed against him next month.

"MacNeill's a thespian," said investigator Doug Witney, who has spent nearly three years researching MacNeill and the suspicious death of his wife, Michele. "It appears his whole life was scripted and staged."

Witney said MacNeill used his position as a doctor to have access to women and used his title as attorney to get around the law.

Read more:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...death-accidental-or-was-it-murder.html?pg=all
 
minor4th said:
Having watched more of this cross exam, I don't think Spencer is intentionally being rude to shake up Dr Perper -- I think Spencer is frustrated because he is not able to get Perper to answer the way Spencer hopes he will.
Click to expand...

That was my impression as well... I still do not like him though !
 
Zuri said:
I just asked Dr. Zuri several of the medical questions that came up today.

First, whether or not you are constipated has no bearing on your likelihood to drown. LOL Dr. Zuri said that was idiotic questioning. :floorlaugh:

Secondly, Regarding Michelle's being able to fight while sedated and drowning: Dr. Zuri says all drownings occur when the conscious brain can no longer recognize that the body is under water and the primitive reflexes cause the diaphragm to contract, the trachea to open, causing water to be sucked into the lungs. Michelle's conscious brain no longer knew that she was under water and shouldn't hold her breath. Conscious brain is when you are awake and functioning. Dr. Zuri said Michelle was unconscious either from sedation or other factors when she was in the water and could not recognize the need to surface for air.

Dr. Zuri gives very long detailed explanations that I tend to tune out after 5 minutes. I think I have this right. I wanted to make sure Cuckoohead's question was properly answered. BTW, that run on sentence above was just part of the explanation he gave. I typed what he said. OMG. :facepalm:
Click to expand...

I think it's also possible she recognized she needed to surface for air but 'someone' was forcibly holding her head under the water---and that force was not only enough to cause her to drown but also to cause her incisions to break open and bleed into the water during a struggle.
 
dmac55 said:
http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/12590375/cost-white-lies
THE COST OF WHITE LIES. MacNeill, Martin J.; MacNeill, Alexis // Family Practice Management;Mar2004, Vol. 11 Issue 3, p62
Discusses the importance of credibility for physicians involved in a malpractice lawsuit. Negative effect of any dishonest information on a physician's curriculum vitae, advertisements or other office materials; Need for physicians with misleading information on their curriculum vitae to discuss it with their attorney and decide how to approach the situation so that the opposing counsel does not use it to their advantage.
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting this. :seeya:
 
Apollo said:
I think it's also possible she recognized she needed to surface for air but 'someone' was forcibly holding her head under the water---and that force was not only enough to cause her to drown but also to cause her incisions to break open and bleed into the water during a struggle.
Click to expand...

If she was not sedated to the point of unconsciousness, and was fully aware of circumstances, I agree this could be a possibility. If the Ambian,Valium, Percocet and Phenergan were not in her system, I believe this could have been the scenario. JMO
 
Zuri said:
If she was not sedated to the point of unconsciousness, and was fully aware of circumstances, I agree this could be a possibility. If the Ambian,Valium, Percocet and Phenergan were not in her system, I believe this could have been the scenario. JMO
Click to expand...

The huge problem is that neither we nor the jury will ever know what the exact levels of those medications were in her system due to the variables at play--dilution, etc. She expelled 5-6 cups of water plus she was given IV fluids so the levels must have been higher but I don't think any of the MEs can pin point exactly how much higher with any degree of certainty .I worry that may cause reasonable doubt with at least one juror. Because Martin was already caught by Alexis giving Michele too much medication, I don't think he'd try that again, so he wanted to give her enough to make her groggy/unable to fight back, but not so much that it actually killed her. I bet next to his PDR was a calculator and he factored in all the contributing information. MOO
 
Apollo said:
The huge problem is that neither we nor the jury will ever know what the exact levels of those medications were in her system due to the variables at play--dilution, etc. She expelled 5-6 cups of water plus she was given IV fluids so the levels must have been higher but I don't think any of the MEs can pin point exactly how much higher with any degree of certainty .I worry that may cause reasonable doubt with at least one juror. Because Martin was already caught by Alexis giving Michele too much medication, I don't think he'd try that again, so he wanted to give her enough to make her groggy/unable to fight back, but not so much that it actually killed her. I bet next to his PDR was a calculator and he factored in all the contributing information. MOO
Click to expand...

But, we do know MM called Dr. Thompson for refills the very day Michele saw Dr. Thompson and told him her pain was minimal and she was taking very little medication. Unfortunately Dr. Thompson refilled the prescription/s. We also know that any remaining medication was destroyed on the orders of MM. And, MM pushed and even offered the ER doc $10,000 to continue resuscitation efforts; he did this knowing full well that IV fluids were running wide open to restore volume lost due to massive vasodilation. This man was very very smart in a very bad way.
 
YESorNO said:
FYI - good reading :seeya:

http://www.courtchatter.com/2013/11/macneill-trial-day-10-recap.html

"Coming Tuesday (no court Monday)!

Among the witnesses scheduled for testimony Tuesday are:
The four inmates that will testify (anonymously for their own protection) against MacNeill
Investigator Jeff Robinson
Sergeant Spencer Cannon from the Utah County Sheriff's Office
Note that court begins at 10:00am MST on Tuesday to give jurors a chance to vote.

The State may rest on Tuesday after the testimony of the above named witnesses."
Click to expand...

So what happened to Gypsy's former room mate who was going to testify regarding Gypsy talking about cutting the brake lines on Michele's car? Not allowed?

I've looked, but can't find, the list of witnesses for the defense. I assume they're going to have their own ME testify but can't think of anyone else they might call. Any ideas? Here's hoping MM thinks he's so bright and charming that he insists on taking the stand.
 
It is unfortunate that State did not query Sabrina more about the "Family is forever" comment. I think the judge may have ruled differently on the "opening the door" matter about giving away the younger children if State had done so.

I think the matter speaks to motive as we can reasonably assume that Michelle would not have agreed to ship one young child back to the Ukraine and the other young children to the Bledsoe family. As soon as defendant got rid of that impediment (Michelle), that is exactly what he did.
 
Gypsy's roommates not allowed...which is a shame. Maybe part of plea deal or some prejudice. They should be because she said it no doubt. Really goes to motive. I want to know exactly where she was during the morning hours on April 11th?
 
we seem to have Dr. Thompson filling prescriptions as a "professional courtesy" without talking or seeing the patient and also the nurse practionier (sp) in 2003 who worked under Dr. MacNeill. I assume in both cases the good doctor could have done this himself? The guy from 2003 kept repeating that the quantity was concerning but he did not question MacNeill. Wonder who those were for?
 
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