GUILTY UT - Michele MacNeill, 50, found dead in bathtub, Pleasant Grove, 11 April 2007 - #4

[renatae]

Spencer wasn't trying to elicit the "family is forever" comment. Riiiiight.

And he's trying to defend the forged letter from dad by saying she gave an answer he didn't expect. That's the chance you take if you ask a question you don't know the answer to, right?

Exactly what I was saying to myself as this went on!

I was SO disappointed this was disallowed. I can't say how much I hate it when witnesses are trashed and the low life defendant has every horrid thing he's ever done shoved under the carpet as "prejudicial." IMO when our legal system began heading down this path is when justice became hard to come by.

ETA: I hate it even more when victims are trashed. How refreshing that in this case we are not seeing Michele trashed!

 

[Dmacky]

I don't know if this has been addressed or not, I am not yet caught up.
My family is local to this case. It has never been a "big news story"... and it still isn't.
An Aunt went to Hawaii last week and saw more coverage of this case than she did in Utah. :twocents:

I have a family member who is very active in the Pleasant Grove City Council since before Michelle died.
Even that family member could not tell me where the house was. They do not know.
It appears that mostly the people who knew the family know where the house is. Others don't care.

A house in the same town in a GATED community, where someone was murdered (2001/2002) sold easily.
I don't think it would have stopped the selling of the house, if anyone even knew it WAS the house.
The houses where suicides occurred have also sold without issue. (There has been many suicides.)

This is only the 3rd homicide I'm personally aware of in Pleasant Grove in the last 20+ years.
Employee killed her employer (2001/2002,) Michelle in 2007 and a drug related Uncle/Nephew in 2009 or so.

I could find out if the house has sold, if that information hasn't already been shared.
(But I'm sure as I catch up I will find that it has indeed been settled.) :seeya:

This is the house
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3058-Millcreek-Rd-Pleasant-Grove-UT-84062/60844909_zpid/

 

[turaj]

for Ms. Facetios above...the address has been mentioned a number of times in the trial...3058 Mill Creek Road...Pleasant Grove Utah and a google search indicates that Martin MacNeill seems to still own it...but that owner info could be old. I believe he actually went back there after his stint in prison. I have been amazed at the lack of interest locally for this case except for the Deseret paper (sp). The gallery is half empty many days except for some supporters of Michelle. As for the defense he is an ugly client to have for sure but I think the prosecutors seem more experienced. Of course things can change as the defense brings their case.

 

[renatae]

I thought the trial was over for the day but then attys met with Judge concerning upcoming witnesses and evidence excluded prior to trial. Of course, the Defense did not want to open any doors and vehemently denies that they did.

1. Defense question to Sabrina about what Dad said after he took the towel away from his face, and she answered that he told her "Families are forever," opened the door to enter evidence about kicking the older girls out and sending the younger girls away to live elsewhere which contradicts him being a "good family man." Judge didn't think the statement was enough to open the door, so denied this request.
   
   
2. Asking Alexis about the "forged" letter from her Dad to medical school (of which she was unaware) opened the door to entering evidence of Dad's forgeries, fraud, etc. Judge didn't think the Defense attempt to show Alexis is untruthful opened the door to show Defendant's fraudulent conduct.

I was hoping the Judge would allow and that the prosecution made a pretty good argument but I'm probably showing my prejudice since I believe he was responsible for his wife's death. What do y'all think? Did the Judge do the right thing?

I'm completely with you. So now the jury is left thinking Alexis is some sort of cheat and her testimony is impugned because no one on the jury knows Martin practically makes a living being fraudulent in nearly every thing he does.

Kudos to the prosecution for bringing up these points. Brilliant, even though disallowed. Valiant effort, guys!

 

[Dmacky]

Is this an old page? The 3rd one down says Michele Macneill is still the owner

http://www.utahcountyonline.org/dep...h.asp?av_book=36&av_page=921&av_tax_year=2007

DUH it's from 2007......Sorry guys ~ sleuth on

 

[renatae]

I'm sure I'll break in with comments as this goes along. I'm already slightly annoyed at the horrible way Spencer asks questions - he is so confusing at times. And he testifies during his questions!

He sure does testify during his questions! Really upsets me and I can't believe he gets away with it. The judge and prosecutors must be dozing, too.

 

[turaj]

Actually there is a link on the zillow above that goes to the same utahcounty page only it is for 2013 and it is now Martin MacNeill. I recall something about the house being put into Michelle's name...and after her death trying to do the fraud with Gypsy to change her identity and get it in her name or something but then they got busted so now back to Martin. I think he still owns the house...maybe being rented??? Maybe Gypsy is living there???

 

[Dmacky]

Here are some pictures of Michele back in her modeling days, a picture of the gravesite headstone MM made :furious: and a bunch of other pictures.
BEWARE, the first picture is down right scary...just sayin

http://m.deseretnews.com/photo/865561191

 

[renatae]

It doesn't - but that is the only thing I can think that the defense was trying to get at, because Spencer said that drinking a lot of water is one way to help constipation.

Oh. I missed this discussion. I know I'm among the lucky ones, lol. Completely perplexed, but maybe he is trying to say that Michele was drinking a lot of water to alleviate constipation and that it had an effect on hydration that would have changed electrolyte balance or whatever he was on about at the moment. Reaching!

 

[renatae]

http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/12590375/cost-white-lies
THE COST OF WHITE LIES. MacNeill, Martin J.; MacNeill, Alexis // Family Practice Management;Mar2004, Vol. 11 Issue 3, p62
Discusses the importance of credibility for physicians involved in a malpractice lawsuit. Negative effect of any dishonest information on a physician's curriculum vitae, advertisements or other office materials; Need for physicians with misleading information on their curriculum vitae to discuss it with their attorney and decide how to approach the situation so that the opposing counsel does not use it to their advantage.

Advice from black kettle, lol.

 

[turaj]

above photos are very interesting. unfortunately there seems to be no photos of Michelle at age 50 prior to her death. She was so stunningly beautiful I'm sure she was still beautiful as she aged. The one of the tombstone said it was made by Martin MacNeill...oh please!!

 

[Norwegian]

Here are some pictures of Michele back in her modeling days, a picture of the gravesite headstone MM made :furious: and a bunch of other pictures.
BEWARE, the first picture is down right scary...just sayin

http://m.deseretnews.com/photo/865561191

I read that the daughters want this stone replaced. They are not happy it looks like a surf board.

Also, families of the deceased on the same graveyard have complained about the distinct look of it.

I don't remember where I got the information, but I think it came from one of the gazillion videos I've watched!

 

[NotMyselfNEMore]

I can only assume that the defense was trying to make the point that if Michele was constipated then her blood couldn't possibly have been diluted by drowning. But they didn't make it to whatever conclusion they were trying to make.

I agree with you, about the defense trying to point out constipation somehow meaning Michelle's blood wasn't diluted by drowning - but I believe what Spencer was trying to say was that because Michelle was taking opiates, she became constipated, and it was a logical that she was drinking more water due to the constipation - thus explaining her diluted blood (according to defense).
Of course, by that logic (or lack of), anyone constipated who drank more water to try to alleviate the condition, would die. Yes, of course it's idiotic (thank you, Dr Zuri) - no matter how constipation was supposed to be involved - but I think that's where defense was trying to go.

I don't know much about Dr. Perper, but really admired demeanor during this cross.
Especially to this question - I think the Dr said something like "...finding feces, ...which is not the nicest thing in the world to find..., is seen in virtually every autopsy, it's normal" and "almost every one has experienced constipation at some time - there are medications that can easily address' (instead of say, drinking enough water to drown her) but "there was no evidence that Michell had any pathology" - (despite having taken opiates post surgery).
Even though the question was ridiculous, the doctor gave well thought out responses (no matter how silly the question, or how poorly he was treated while trying to respond) - I admire his composure.

 

[NotMyselfNEMore]

Having watched more of this cross exam, I don't think Spencer is intentionally being rude to shake up Dr Perper -- I think Spencer is frustrated because he is not able to get Perper to answer the way Spencer hopes he will.

I think Spencer did both: tried to get the Dr. to answer how he wanted, became frustrated, then became condescending, and just plain rude towards Dr Perper - cutting off his answers, as if they were incoherent rambling when the response didn't go where Spencer wanted..... Drawing pictures..... to what? ....make blood easier for the Dr to understand? ....in pictures?

What I really didn't understand, was why the State didn't object?...Is that a strategy, or something? If so, they seem to use that strategy a lot.
Or was there nothing to object to here?

 

[Dmacky]

I read that the daughters want this stone replaced. They are not happy it looks like a surf board.

Also, families of the deceased on the same graveyard have complained about the distinct look of it.

I don't remember where I got the information, but I think it came from one of the gazillion videos I've watched!

Yes Norwegian ~ you are right about all the complaints

Found this info on the web ~
"Martin's daughter also complained that her father didn't put a gravestone marker on their mother's grave for more than a year after she died. He wouldn't let anyone else in the family put one up either. After complaining to his lawyer about it and to the court as she was trying to get custody of her three younger siblings, Alexis said Cluff found him one day creating his own gravestone out of concrete he mixed."

The stone is about 6 feet tall and Alexis said it looks like a surfboard. She said she is not sure why her dad did it, but she assumes it was to save money. Many people complained to Highland Cemetery about what Alexis called an "eyesore" and Martin finally put a plaque on the outside of it several months later. Alexis and Cluff wish they could just replace it with a normal gravestone.

Pic of headstone after complaints
http://www.komonews.com/news/national/121011684.html

 

[Dmacky]

Someone here was asking about how old Gypsy Willis is. In this 2011 article about her getting out of jail lists her age at 34. So she would be 36 now.
The macneill girls were at this hearing and not at all happy about her release, and neither am I! Interesting read ~

http://intimateviolencedeathnews.blogspot.com/2011/03/provo-ut-girlfriend-of-pleasant-grove.html

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Yes Norwegian ~ you are right about all the complaints

Found this info on the web ~
"Martin's daughter also complained that her father didn't put a gravestone marker on their mother's grave for more than a year after she died. He wouldn't let anyone else in the family put one up either. After complaining to his lawyer about it and to the court as she was trying to get custody of her three younger siblings, Alexis said Cluff found him one day creating his own gravestone out of concrete he mixed."

The stone is about 6 feet tall and Alexis said it looks like a surfboard. She said she is not sure why her dad did it, but she assumes it was to save money. Many people complained to Highland Cemetery about what Alexis called an "eyesore" and Martin finally put a plaque on the outside of it several months later. Alexis and Cluff wish they could just replace it with a normal gravestone.

Pic of headstone after complaints
http://www.komonews.com/news/national/121011684.html

The daughters need to replace that headstone asap.
I think they would start feeling better about themselves and the situation once they start standing up to anything and everything their diabolical father did and was.
I feel bad for the daughters and all they went through and I think through the pain of this ordeal, they will become stronger & empowered.

Change the headstone, change everything!

:seeya:

 

[KALI]

In order to get out of jail early.
I would love to know if she's kept good on those requirements. I doubt it!
It would be great if she was caught breaking those rules and thrown back into jail to finish her sentence!

Someone here was asking about how old Gypsy Willis is. In this 2011 article about her getting out of jail lists her age at 34. So she would be 36 now.
The macneill girls were at this hearing and not at all happy about her release, and neither am I! Interesting read ~

http://intimateviolencedeathnews.blogspot.com/2011/03/provo-ut-girlfriend-of-pleasant-grove.html

 

[turaj]

More info on what the situation is with the house as of 2012...
<modsnip> This is from article about Gypsy's release above.
So disgusting.

 

[Harmony 2]

This is what the inmates will testify to next week...

Spoiler

Four inmates who served time with Martin MacNeill are expected to take the stand during the fourth week of trial. These former cellmates, who will be identified by numbers and not names, say MacNeill told them he killed his wife and that he didn't think law enforcement would be able to prove it.

http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/11/02/macneill-martin-doctor-utah-wife-murder-week-3

Spoiler

MacNeill also told inmates after his arrest that his wife was a "b----," that he was glad she was dead and that authorities would never be able to prove he killed her, according to Pead.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/martin-mac...cribes-alleged-murder-scene/story?id=20611504