GUILTY UT - Michele MacNeill, 50, found dead in bathtub, Pleasant Grove, 11 April 2007 - #4

[Nore]

Thanks Fred and Edna for all the info.. This guy should never be free again!
He has done wroong all the way around. I have no doubt he killed Michele by doping and drowning her. IMO..:seeya:

 

[Harmony 2]

Please do not sleuth family members and post the information on the public board. The only one on trial is Martin MacNeill... Thanks

 

[Ann-Tx]

At the following Link, there are numerous articles about the Martin Macneill case/trial.

I think this is a site set up by Michelle Macneill's sister, Linda.

Also, you can click on and there are archived YouTube videos of the trial (keep scrolling down).

In case you missed some of the trial or if HLN did not post a video, you might be able to find it at the linked site:



http://martinmacneill.info/
Martin MacNeill

Primary information site about Martin Joseph Macneill; for my sister Michele. -Linda

Categories

• By Linda
• Live Coverage and Videos
• The MacNeill Story

 

[turaj]

I read the above link on MartinMacNeill site . It is under by Linda. Not going to quote here but if you have not read the second entry there it is very informative. For example no one even called her family. At the time of writing her mother was 90 so not sure if she is living. What amazes me is that since 1977 they were on to him but were helpless to do anything. He wanted nothing to do with them for obvious reasons and only select family members were "allowed" at the funeral. It just amazes me how he has gotten this far and these family members will be in serious danger if he gets off.

 

[turaj]

the Trisha show last night was very interesting and I learned alot. Been trying to find the defense witness list and confirmed last night it is not public. Trying to speculate outside of med experts they would have to put up someone at the clinic that saw him and times to establish alibi. Someone mentioned it will be an alibi defense and I can see where no matter how vile he is and the things he has done if they can convince the jury that he had no time to do the crime ie drowning he is free.

 

[CUCKOOHEAD]

I thought the trial was over for the day but then attys met with Judge concerning upcoming witnesses and evidence excluded prior to trial. Of course, the Defense did not want to open any doors and vehemently denies that they did.

1. Defense question to Sabrina about what Dad said after he took the towel away from his face, and she answered that he told her "Families are forever," opened the door to enter evidence about kicking the older girls out and sending the younger girls away to live elsewhere which contradicts him being a "good family man." Judge didn't think the statement was enough to open the door, so denied this request.
   
   
2. Asking Alexis about the "forged" letter from her Dad to medical school (of which she was unaware) opened the door to entering evidence of Dad's forgeries, fraud, etc. Judge didn't think the Defense attempt to show Alexis is untruthful opened the door to show Defendant's fraudulent conduct.

I was hoping the Judge would allow and that the prosecution made a pretty good argument but I'm probably showing my prejudice since I believe he was responsible for his wife's death. What do y'all think? Did the Judge do the right thing?

Dear Judge,

There are two outcomes I can see about the letter. Either it was submitted without Alexis knowledge, which is what she said or she knew about the letter and perjured herself on the stand.

Which is it Judge either Alexis is a liar which is how you left it or the State should be able to 'redeem' any damage done to Alexis's testimony by showing who has the pattern of fraud? I believe I know which side of the bed you get up on judge :banghead:

 

[Nore]

The daughters need to replace that headstone asap.
I think they would start feeling better about themselves and the situation once they start standing up to anything and everything their diabolical father did and was.
I feel bad for the daughters and all they went through and I think through the pain of this ordeal, they will become stronger & empowered.

Change the headstone, change everything!

:seeya:

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Hi, I feel sorry for the daughters. That thing is what he wanted it to be ~ an eyesore. Sad part is if they have the laws Ohio has, they cant change it. The plot is no doubt in his name so legally it is his property. If he is found guilty I dont think that would change anything. So far if he dies, it goes to Gypsy. We went through a situation with ex DIL. over our sons crypt. I spoke to cemetery persons. We bought the crypt (our property) she signed papers at the Funeral home giving her permission to inter him in our crypt. Real nice after losing him! She already had a replacement thus we got our sons daughter at near 18 years.lease:

 

[CUCKOOHEAD]

I just asked Dr. Zuri several of the medical questions that came up today.

First, whether or not you are constipated has no bearing on your likelihood to drown. LOL Dr. Zuri said that was idiotic questioning. :floorlaugh:

Secondly, Regarding Michelle's being able to fight while sedated and drowning: Dr. Zuri says all drownings occur when the conscious brain can no longer recognize that the body is under water and the primitive reflexes cause the diaphragm to contract, the trachea to open, causing water to be sucked into the lungs. Michelle's conscious brain no longer knew that she was under water and shouldn't hold her breath. Conscious brain is when you are awake and functioning. Dr. Zuri said Michelle was unconscious either from sedation or other factors when she was in the water and could not recognize the need to surface for air.

Dr. Zuri gives very long detailed explanations that I tend to tune out after 5 minutes. I think I have this right. I wanted to make sure Cuckoohead's question was properly answered. BTW, that run on sentence above was just part of the explanation he gave. I typed what he said. OMG. :facepalm:

Thank you for the reply Zuri but what I was saying was that even though Michele was drugged/unconscious the body still fights for survival. I believe Michele's body fought maybe not as much as Mac (in One Flew... and Mac didn't fight like he would have if he was still functioning) but enough perhaps to twist her head in attempts to get air and not water and in the process opened suture marks that were very new giving the bloody water in the tub. Ada said her mom's eyes were open. If you are unconscious aren't your eyes closed?

 

[turaj]

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Hi, I feel sorry for the daughters. That thing is what he wanted it to be ~ an eyesore. Sad part is if they have the laws Ohio has, they cant change it. The plot is no doubt in his name so legally it is his property. If he is found guilty I dont think that would change anything. So far if he dies, it goes to Gypsy. We went through a situation with ex DIL. over our sons crypt. I spoke to cemetery persons. We bought the crypt (our property) she signed papers at the Funeral home giving her permission to inter him in our crypt. Real nice after losing him! She already had a replacement thus we got our sons daughter at near 18 years.lease:

Above says if he dies it goes to Gypsy. Did I miss something? Did they get married legally?

 

[Ann-Tx]

Above says if he dies it goes to Gypsy. Did I miss something? Did they get married legally?

Martin Macneill redid his will. I think he left his children $1 and the rest to Gypsy.

I think he disowned all of his children (IIRC)

I can not find the Link to info about this. I hope someone can provide a Link.

 

[Coldpizza]

Martin Macneill redid his will. I think he left his children $1 and the rest to Gypsy.

I think he disowned all of his children (IIRC)

I can not find the Link to info about this. I hope someone can provide a Link.

One of the most interesting things to Wissler was discovering that after his wife died, Martin changed his will to give just $1 to each of his children. Everything else was to go to Willis under her false identity. To Wissler's knowledge, the will remains the same.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...-death-accidental-or-was-it-murder.html?pg=10

 

[turaj]

One of the most interesting things to Wissler was discovering that after his wife died, Martin changed his will to give just $1 to each of his children. Everything else was to go to Willis under her false identity. To Wissler's knowledge, the will remains the same.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...-death-accidental-or-was-it-murder.html?pg=10

I would assume the courts cannot uphold a will that leaves anything to a false name. I would imagine that whole thing is a probate nightmare. Just imagine the legal fees that this family has had to endure. Hopefully they can at least get the proceeds from the house but maybe not if he walks.

 

[Italy]

Prosecution needs to address Martin's story about the position of Michelle's body - which MM described (and demonstrated) as being found slumped over the side of tub in a face down position when Ada discovered her. Why would he so blatantly lie about that? Every witness has claimed otherwise. It seemingly does not make sense. But it does if you think timeline.

I think what happened was that the body WAS in that position described by Martin at some point. Shortly after he gives her an incapacitating drug overdose of CNS depressants - Ambien, Percoccet, Oxycodone, Phenergan - (or potassium as others have speculated) - and she is completely unable to function, he finalizes the murder by leaning her unconscious body face forward into a tub of water resulting in death by drowning.

He is a doctor, he knows that lividity (& the white pressure blotches) will set in within 1/2 - 1 hour and that will screw up his timeline. So, before he leaves the house to have his photo take or to collect Ada, and before significant lividity can appear, he pushes her all the way into the bathtub onto her back (not noticing that her head is in the unusual position of being under the faucet). Moving a body (especially turning it over) within the first hour or two can mitigate/*advertiser censored* the presence of lividity. He knows this.

He has concocted such an elaborate lie (which makes remembering every small detail very difficult), that he inadvertently tells & demonstrates to Alexis, and later Rachel, that he and Ada found Michelle's body slumped over the edge of the tub - face down into the water. We know this to be inaccurate based on Ada's statements as well as testimony from the two neighbors called into the house by Ada. MM's statement is indisputably wrong & the question is why would he lie about that.

Everything he has done - including the early call to Alexis from the clinic phone expressing his concern for Michelle - was done to establish a timeline that exonerates him. According to MM, he was at the Health Fair getting his picture taken when death supposedly occurred. Everything about his defense is an attempt to muddy the timeline and to give him an alibi.

With respect to the drugs, I suspect he substituted Oxycodone and other narcotics for the normally prescribed Premarin, antibiotics & hypertension drugs as a means to convince Michelle to take an overdose.

Son Damian and girlfriend would not recognize the proper shape/color of pills from the various prescriptions so the whole "inventory of pills" was a ruse to cover his tracks in the event that the girlfriend or Damian happened to accurately remember that there remained x number of pills in the antibiotic (or another) bottle. Flushing them down the toilet eliminated the possibility of tests to determine exactly what each pill truly was.

The fatal flaw in his twisted plot is his statement about the position of Michelle's body upon discovery by Ada.

 

[Nore]

One of the most interesting things to Wissler was discovering that after his wife died, Martin changed his will to give just $1 to each of his children. Everything else was to go to Willis under her false identity. To Wissler's knowledge, the will remains the same.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...-death-accidental-or-was-it-murder.html?pg=10

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Hi, he sure is a swift lawyer no? :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

 

[KALI]

The Website created by Linda (Michele's younger sister) fascinating read.
Yes, shortly after Michele's death, he left everything to Gypsy, except for one dollar each to his children.

Martin Macneill redid his will. I think he left his children $1 and the rest to Gypsy.

I think he disowned all of his children (IIRC)

I can not find the Link to info about this. I hope someone can provide a Link.

(

 

[turaj]

just listened to Trisha from a couple of weeks ago...one person on there said that the defense lawyers were well known in the area and took this case "pro bono". Anyone else hear that? Does not really make sense.

 

[turaj]

Wondering on the "timeline" subject..when Alexis talked to her mother Michelle said she was going to be picking up Ada...so one can conclude that was the plan and Martin knew that. What is the explanation for his going to pick her up other than because he knew what had happened to his wife?

 

[GaveltoGavel]

Wondering on the "timeline" subject..when Alexis talked to her mother Michelle said she was going to be picking up Ada...so one can conclude that was the plan and Martin knew that. What is the explanation for his going to pick her up other than because he knew what had happened to his wife?

Good point. I think Italy hit the nail on the head as to how Martin killed Michelle. He slipped up as to the way he told/showed the daughters how he found her in the bath room. I think the pros have proven that Martin had a strong motive to kill her......even without all the other stuff that was not allowed by the judge. Hopefully the inmates will come across as credible tomorrow and when at closing the pros will nail in the last nail in the coffin. I feel very strongly he will be found guilty. :jail:

 

[booradley]

Wondering on the "timeline" subject..when Alexis talked to her mother Michelle said she was going to be picking up Ada...so one can conclude that was the plan and Martin knew that. What is the explanation for his going to pick her up other than because he knew what had happened to his wife?

this is an excellent question, Ada said that her mom was going to pick her up and take her to McDonalds too, so is there a record of a phone call from Michelle asking Martin to pick up ada? If not, I think it points directly to his guilt since he knew what had happened to his wife because he killed her.

 

[turaj]

this is an excellent question, Ada said that her mom was going to pick her up and take her to McDonalds too, so is there a record of a phone call from Michelle asking Martin to pick up ada? If not, I think it points directly to his guilt since he knew what had happened to his wife because he killed her.

I don't think Michelle was in any position to make any phone calls so just how did he know. Wonder if prosecution will go there on rebuttal. It is too bad that so much time passed and they would not allow Ada on the stand.