GUILTY UT - Michele MacNeill, 50, found dead in bathtub, Pleasant Grove, 11 April 2007 - #8

[seattlechiquita]

Yes! Just watched the verdict on YouTube. Both me and Mr. Chiquito. He said "oh, he looks shady". To say the least! Peace and coffee to all!

 

[21merc7]

Still rewatching. As far as who was missing during verdict watch, Doc M wasn't in the Courtroom for the 911 cd stuff, I knew I heard someone wasn't there. Guess he was just sitting in the tank and didn't need to be hauled out.

I think the Great Seal may have fallen due to heat from the big lights that camera crews use. I have seen them crack windows. That may be why the Judge is always putting his hand to his forehead. I thought it was his thinking pose, but maybe it was because of the glare. Lol.

I must say, the Judge and the Prosecution were extremely respectful to everyone on the stand and in the Courtroom. More respectful than many trials I have watched. Kudos to them for their considerate and very professional behavior.

 

[Norwegian]

About where MM and Gypsy met online:

Through different channels and people on internet I've noticed that Gypsy has a huge interest for costume and reenactment/roleplay from medieval and viking times. I've found a lot of her pictures from events that does these kinds of things, all the way back to 2006.

I noticed that she's referred to as Bathsheba - maybe that's her roleplaying name?

The reason it was interesting is because two of the e-mail adresses MM and Gypsy had used was bathsheba76@yahoo.com and phoenixsheba@yahoo.com

Maybe they met on one of these sites? I don't know, but it's an idea.

MM had an interest in these things, too. I did identify Michele's whereabouts in one video of her; The Norwegian Viking Ship museum.

It's only fair to think Martin was holding the camera and was there with Michele.

 

[Italy]

Here is Surrender Order of RN/LPN license for Gypsy Willis from 2009.

http://dopl.utah.gov/orders/2009-234_SO_2009-08-06.pdf

Is she able to regain her nursing credentials at a later date? Seems the felony conviction would preclude that. Of course, she'll probably just change her name again and proceed as usual.

 

[turaj]

good morning...still recapping things in my mind...one thing that left me wondering and maybe someone has an explanation is the defense strategy...an accident and she took the pills herself. It was so weak and obviously their goal was reasonable doubt. I think the best way to go for doubt would have been suicide and maybe that was MM initial intention and things did not go well. Michelle was a "middle aged" woman who had been a beauty queen and had put on a fair amount of weight and was losing those "beauty queen" looks. I think aging is much tougher on women who were once as beautiful as Michelle. It was bothering her...not to the point of facelift but to the point where she did agree to do the surgery. She admitted she was depressed and had good reasons with her husband's behavior the last year and finally confirming the affair etc. It was clear he was not going to stop. All of this in the context of an LDS community and all that implies in terms of shame etc. There is more than enough evidence that she could have been a candidate for suicide. She had access to the pills etc. So had the defense set it up this way I think they would have had a better chance at reasonable doubt. For some reason at the last minute they read the stipulation about suicide and I really don't know when that was entered into and frankly I don't know why the defense agreed to it. Any thoughts on this idea...maybe it has been discussed before but the minute I heard the stipulation my mind started working. It seems so logical as so like MM to set this up. A depressed woman with tons on pills at hand and then makes her way to the bathtub.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Good morning/afternoon/whatever :seeya: :floorlaugh:

No more live trials on HLN or TV!!! :tantrum:
Guess I'll just have WS for trial coverage.

CC ‏@courtchatter 2h
@Tantalizinyou @TrialDivasJ @LadyJustice2188 This is the last trial that HLN will do any live coverage on. No trial will be on tv.

I don't think this is a bad thing. The people who want to watch the trial can find a live feed online. Also, by not having weeks/months of 24/7 coverage on a news channel, you are decreasing the amount of MSM coverage a case receives, therefore reducing the notoriety of the killer, and how much they (and their family and lawyers) will be "worth" after it ends in book deals, interviews, etc.

 

[passionflower]

Can the family of the deceased now go to civil wrongful death against Gypsy?
I think in my heart that MM and Gypsy BOTH knew the plan because MM would be stuck in a nasty divorce, alimony, child support, college for children, ruin the reputation, 50% of assets & house and Gypsy wanted a lawyer/doctor husband and the live it could give her back then.

 

[turaj]

I don't think this is a bad thing. The people who want to watch the trial can find a live feed online. Also, by not having weeks/months of 24/7 coverage on a news channel, you are decreasing the amount of MSM coverage a case receives, therefore reducing the notoriety of the killer, and how much they (and their family and lawyers) will be "worth" after it ends in book deals, interviews, etc.

agree with thoughts above but if you have a channel that is floundering and only gets ratings with trials...why would you take trials off? Even if they don't have them all the time it seems one good one after another is coming these days and they can capitalize. I saw some of their new programming lineup and it sounds awful. I think there may be a mis understanding of what they will do. JVM and NG etc. would not have much to talk about if they were not hyping the trials...only very limited audience for animal rights and lost kids (no offense intended). I am looking at it from a business perspective because I am certain the "suits" at CNN/HLN only care about their ratings not potential gain for killers etc. I guarantee right now they are jockeying for interviews after this case including an in jail interview with MM. Frankly none of these interviews or potential shows etc. would have an audience if the trial had not been covered on HLN. I know very few people that "live stream". Most have it on in the backgound on TV if at all.

 

[21merc7]

good morning...still recapping things in my mind...one thing that left me wondering and maybe someone has an explanation is the defense strategy...an accident and she took the pills herself. It was so weak and obviously their goal was reasonable doubt. I think the best way to go for doubt would have been suicide and maybe that was MM initial intention and things did not go well. Michelle was a "middle aged" woman who had been a beauty queen and had put on a fair amount of weight and was losing those "beauty queen" looks. I think aging is much tougher on women who were once as beautiful as Michelle. It was bothering her...not to the point of facelift but to the point where she did agree to do the surgery. She admitted she was depressed and had good reasons with her husband's behavior the last year and finally confirming the affair etc. It was clear he was not going to stop. All of this in the context of an LDS community and all that implies in terms of shame etc. There is more than enough evidence that she could have been a candidate for suicide. She had access to the pills etc. So had the defense set it up this way I think they would have had a better chance at reasonable doubt. For some reason at the last minute they read the stipulation about suicide and I really don't know when that was entered into and frankly I don't know why the defense agreed to it. Any thoughts on this idea...maybe it has been discussed before but the minute I heard the stipulation my mind started working. It seems so logical as so like MM to set this up. A depressed woman with tons on pills at hand and then makes her way to the bathtub.

I'm guessing it was a toss up when thinking about it. There was no loving note left for her children, MM insisted it was an accident and set it up as such with the call to Alexis that mom needed to lay down, he was worried. So the story line was already headed toward accident. To suddenly try to force suicide into the story would have proven even more difficult to argue.

Since defense did not argue well, and it seems RS has problems with women or any witness, meaning his accusatory style should preclude any murder clients from retaining him, this is the best they could do. Accidents as such do happen, but they never bother to show that, or much of anything but accusations against witnesses. Impeaching a witness can be done tactfully and without your own personal issues shining through more brightly than what it is you are trying to accomplish in a trial.

 

[21merc7]

I don't think this is a bad thing. The people who want to watch the trial can find a live feed online. Also, by not having weeks/months of 24/7 coverage on a news channel, you are decreasing the amount of MSM coverage a case receives, therefore reducing the notoriety of the killer, and how much they (and their family and lawyers) will be "worth" after it ends in book deals, interviews, etc.

No idea why it is happening, but I think it is a good thing. HLN was just awful at showing trials, more like one big commercial, and when not in commercial, one big prosecution of all players mentioned. Lol.

Court TV was a bit better back in the day when I had free cable included at an apartment.

Online is much better, as people can watch exactly what is happening without all the jibberjabber in between (that usually proves incorrect anyway) and without loads of commercials.

 

[Bravo]

I don't think I will Bravo, I don't know have never attended a high profile trial before....who knows maybe I will make it a first.

Excuse my ignorance, but when does the trial start?
My mom and grams always talk about this case, but I seem to not get caught up in the local stuff as much. I think it is because I read and watch national and world news more than local. *I have been shamed about this by my father*.
Do you hang on the Bashara thread here?
What trial is everyone moving on to?
I feel so lost :scared:

ETA- I should add we are likely going to have another very newsworthy case happening in my area soon. Would not be surprised if MSM picks up on it, it is going to be very Zimmerman-like. White guy in his 50's killed a black woman in her late teens (19 I think) on his front porch at 2:30 am last weekend. It is already controversial. Hmmmm maybe there is a thread here already?

Bashara Trial is scheduled for March 3rd 2014. That could change. Yes I have posted a bit on that thread when news was active. I saw that Zimmerman like case. Terrible. Not sure where I will go. certainly hang here as long as it's open. Will follow up with Jodi Arais too. I hope to get to Bashara Trial but it will depend on weather,work schedule and finding a buddy to come with lol.

 

[september]

I know but Jean is known for coming up with this drama of reading jurors and she's always wrong so I like to pick on her.

I have watched her cover many trials and she is always pro-defense. So wish Beth was in her position.

 

[21merc7]

Here is Surrender Order of RN/LPN license for Gypsy Willis from 2009.

http://dopl.utah.gov/orders/2009-234_SO_2009-08-06.pdf

Is she able to regain her nursing credentials at a later date? Seems the felony conviction would preclude that. Of course, she'll probably just change her name again and proceed as usual.

Found that yesterday after Norwegian mentioned her findings. Still cannot find all Norwegian has, guess I don't know what to google.

She has posted on a CDL class board, so she is going for truck driver.

Don't know if she can get her license reinstated as I don't know anything about medical laws, but it looks like she cannot in Utah. Fake name, SS#, and prescription fraud should be enough to preclude her from any sort of medical practices in that State - that is my line of thought, know nothing about the laws that govern it. Maybe one of our med professionals here can tell us.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

agree with thoughts above but if you have a channel that is floundering and only gets ratings with trials...why would you take trials off? Even if they don't have them all the time it seems one good one after another is coming these days and they can capitalize. I saw some of their new programming lineup and it sounds awful. I think there may be a mis understanding of what they will do. JVM and NG etc. would not have much to talk about if they were not hyping the trials...only very limited audience for animal rights and lost kids (no offense intended). I am looking at it from a business perspective because I am certain the "suits" at CNN/HLN only care about their ratings not potential gain for killers etc. I guarantee right now they are jockeying for interviews after this case including an in jail interview with MM. Frankly none of these interviews or potential shows etc. would have an audience if the trial had not been covered on HLN. I know very few people that "live stream". Most have it on in the backgound on TV if at all.

Here's the ratings HLN got during recent high-profile trials:

On November 7th (MacNeill trial), HLN averaged 202,000 viewers.
A month earlier, October 7th (no trial), HLN averaged 196,000 viewers.
On July 7th (Zimmerman trial), HLN averaged 589,000 viewers.
On April 30th (Arias trial), HLN averaged 283,000 viewers.
On June 30, 2011 (Anthony trial), HLN averaged 1.15 million viewers.

ETA: As you can see, all of the recent trials brought in higher ratings than normal except for MacNeill. The numbers for the Arias trial might not look much higher, but they doubled what the channel normally gets. I read an interview with an HLN executive where he said they are constantly looking for a new trial to cover, but I think they are realizing that not every trial is going to bring in high ratings. I think it's hard for a trial to bring in high ratings if the case didn't get much media coverage prior to the trial beginning. With Zimmerman and Anthony, the public knew about those cases from the beginning, and there was tons of coverage before the trial even began.

Also, what is the cost of covering a trial for weeks/months compared to just covering "normal" cases? If the cost is significantly more, than the ratings also need to be significantly more to make up for it.

 

[panthera]

I'm guessing it was a toss up when thinking about it. There was no loving note left for her children, MM insisted it was an accident and set it up as such with the call to Alexis that mom needed to lay down, he was worried. So the story line was already headed toward accident. To suddenly try to force suicide into the story would have proven even more difficult to argue.

Since defense did not argue well, and it seems RS has problems with women or any witness, meaning his accusatory style should preclude any murder clients from retaining him, this is the best they could do. Accidents as such do happen, but they never bother to show that, or much of anything but accusations against witnesses. Impeaching a witness can be done tactfully and without your own personal issues shining through more brightly than what it is you are trying to accomplish in a trial.

BBM

That is exactly it, in my opinion. The children. I cannot believe Michele would have committed suicide because she would have left the children behind...especially since she knew of her husband's affairs. No jury would have bought that either. Michele was not depressed, at least not to that point. In addition it is against her faith. It appears even MacNeill knew better than to try that angle so he was attempting to stage an accidental drowning.

MOO

 

[knt]

No idea why it is happening, but I think it is a good thing. HLN was just awful at showing trials, more like one big commercial, and when not in commercial, one big prosecution of all players mentioned. Lol.

Court TV was a bit better back in the day when I had free cable included at an apartment.

Online is much better, as people can watch exactly what is happening without all the jibberjabber in between (that usually proves incorrect anyway) and without loads of commercials.

But who is going to be filming it for us to watch online? I thought the major networks needed to be involved with their media lawyers arguing for the rights to televise the trial. Then the network media lawyers are always stepping in for situations like the agreement to not show the inmates faces, to only play the audio. I don't think Joe Blow can sit in a courtroom and video a trial so we can watch it online, can he? Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Norwegian]

BTW: Just checked who Bathsheba really was: Bathsheba was the mistress and later the wife of King David.

What a name Gypsy choose for herself.

 

[Zuri]

Here is Surrender Order of RN/LPN license for Gypsy Willis from 2009.

http://dopl.utah.gov/orders/2009-234_SO_2009-08-06.pdf

Is she able to regain her nursing credentials at a later date? Seems the felony conviction would preclude that. Of course, she'll probably just change her name again and proceed as usual.

Under normal circumstances, GW would have to take a refresher course before being able to re-obtain her license as she surrendered her license in 2008 or 2009. The fact that she served jail time for felonies probably would preclude her from being considered for licensure, even if she completed the refresher course. Professional standards are pretty strict.

For example, an RN who has substance abuse issues and is caught taking pt meds, first offense, is given GN status and paid accordingly until that time which: they complete the state required course, are drug free (they are drug tested), meet with state counselor monthly, work under supervision in clinical setting. They may not handle narcotics during this probationary period. If all criteria are met, they will have license re-instated.

IMO GW will never work as an RN or LPN again. They now do criminal background checks and you fingerprinted. She does not pass muster, anywhere. JMO

 

[knt]

BTW: Just checked who Bathsheba really was: Bathsheba was the mistress and later the wife of King David.

What a name Gypsy choose for herself.

Just wow. I love that you thought to look that up.

 

[Chelly]

I have watched her cover many trials and she is always pro-defense. So wish Beth was in her position.

I believe HLN expects Jean C to assume the role of pro-defense.