UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #3

[emmcee]

His traveling to WA speaks volumes to me. If he were pretending that she was missing or abducted (anything other than he killed her) wouldn't it make more sense for him to stay at their home in case she showed up or was trying to contact him? It's so obvious to me that since he left, he's telling everyone that he knows she won't be returning.

 

[burbqueen]

I knew religion has something to do with this!!!! told ya'll so.

If JP's family and himself were against Mormons then why in the world would you marry one? Or maybe at first Susan wasnt active when they met, but I heard they met at a church function right? Or maybe JP got disinterested and Susans church going ramped up. Poor thing, she probably felt that the church was her strength in a time of need. Susan IMO was probably emotionally, verbally and worse, psycho games from that monster. Pitting the kids against her and taking them off to play when their mom wanted them to go to church. Or forcing them to choose. Playing the good parent, bad parent game.

 

[Openmyeyes]

Texas Mist, thank you so much for your always informative links. You are making me lazy, lol.

In the article it mentioned that Josh was a home teacher for the church along with the guy interviewed and that it ended when Josh left the church.
Thats rather frightening. I wonder how long Josh actually attempted to do this. Obviously, he didn't get what he wanted out of it, so he left.

Perhaps he thought being involved would improve his finances and secure him a networking base for his real estate business.

On another note, after reading this article, it is very clear why Josh's daddy said they both would be villified, and rightfully so considering that a young mother is missing.

 

[passionflower]

So the only REAL supporter of Josh all along has been his father!!!
I am wondering if his father was the brains behind what Josh should do
to leave Susan and get his sons. (not murder) legally.
Father apparently left wife and children and remarried.
Josh talked to his father constantly, this makes me think he was influenced
allot by him.
If SP hated Susan and her church, he would help JP hate them also.
Who ever heard asking a 2 & 4 year old 'do you want church or cake'
Talk about a nut!!!

 

[TGIRecovered]

About the keys, purse, and cellphone on the bed--If I were afraid of my husband, I'd keep those items close at hand at all times. We don't know if they were in plain sight, on top of a made-up bed, or if the covers were rumpled and maybe Josh didn't realize those items were there when he left to dump the body.
If Josh had been experimenting in the past with various methods or amounts of poison, she may have thought her sick feeling would pass; as it had before. She may have been hoping to leave with the children after Josh fell asleep, but Josh finished her off before she had the chance.


About the margins. Nursebeeme has been trying to find the cause of them being blown, but mine still are, and it is really frustrating to have to scroll way, way, back and forth just to read each post. This has gone on for days on this thread. I don't know if it is Steeley Dan's links or what, but please, if anyone has long links on their siggy, shorten them at tinyurl.com, so the rest of us can read in peace!

 

[Taminator]

I still don't know if I can agree that this is about religion, per se. I think it has more to do with another situation for him to control. I can imagine his father sticking his nose in many aspects of their marriage. I would tend to lean toward his father telling him he's the "man of the house" and belittling him for not standing up to the "little woman". JMO, but it sounds to me like his father made him feel like he was "whipped". Josh may have learned from him how to treat his wife.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

So the only REAL supporter of Josh all along has been his father!!!
I am wondering if his father was the brains behind what Josh should do
to leave Susan and get his sons. (not murder) legally.
Father apparently left wife and children and remarried.
Josh talked to his father constantly, this makes me think he was influenced
allot by him.
If SP hated Susan and her church, he would help JP hate them also.
Who ever heard asking a 2 & 4 year old 'do you want church or cake'
Talk about a nut!!!

BBM

I would bet 100 dollars this is a typical example of Josh's "odd humor". If he was called on in it he would just say I am joking. This guy is a young Drew Peterson.

 

[Texas Mist]

Texas Mist, thank you so much for your always informative links. You are making me lazy, lol.

In the article it mentioned that Josh was a home teacher for the church along with the guy interviewed and that it ended when Josh left the church.
Thats rather frightening. I wonder how long Josh actually attempted to do this. Obviously, he didn't get what he wanted out of it, so he left.

Perhaps he thought being involved would improve his finances and secure him a networking base for his real estate business.

On another note, after reading this article, it is very clear why Josh's daddy said they both would be villified, and rightfully so considering that a young mother is missing.

I wish I was better at saving links...I have found some posts/comments, which I guess are considered 'rumors' but they aren't like wayyy out there so I think there's some or even a lot of truth in them.

Here's some that I remember:

Josh went to Pierce Community College (I read that at a komo news site)

The poster who said Josh spent all that $$ on the magnets also said that Josh had a temper - and that Susan was at a real estate meeting & had the kids - and they were crying - and Josh "went off on her" right there in front of everybody.

And IIRC, it was "John H." who posted a comment that Josh got a call from LE on that Monday when everybody was looking for him - and he "hung up on the police officer". (and IMO, John H. is Kiirsi's husband.)

just remembering comments to the best of my ability so take it FWIW.

 

[fran]

His traveling to WA speaks volumes to me. If he were pretending that she was missing or abducted (anything other than he killed her) wouldn't it make more sense for him to stay at their home in case she showed up or was trying to contact him? It's so obvious to me that since he left, he's telling everyone that he knows she won't be returning.

Yesterday's news of Josh leaving his home in Utah and going to visit family in Washington State, was surprising IMHO. But not necessarily unexpected. I did, however, not expect him to attend the vigil last night in Washington. I have no idea whey he did that, other than to try to take the building tide of suspicion that he's the perp. Sorry, it didn't work.

I will tell you though, Josh leaving the home so soon after Susan disappeared AND the fact friends and relatives have already begun removing furnishings from the home, rates right in there with the part of the Laci Peterson case when after just a few days SP inquired of a real estate agent about selling their home and a few weeks of his wife missing, SP sold Laci's car.

IMHO, the husband's actions are indicitive of HOW this case is going to end. Susan will NEVER walk back through those doors again, alive.

JMHO

fran

 

[passionflower]

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=9097273&comments=true
from the KSL news comments
So many people are saying how could a loving husband during a grief
period even think of leaving the area.
He should be crazed with looking for her, pleading for her return.
Going and asking people where is she?
Let's go look here, there..........
They agree with us that he KNOWS EXACTLY WHERE SUSAN IS!!!
and he RAN to Daddy!
The father is the ONLY PERSON that UNDERSTANDS HIM!!!!

 

[fran]

I wish I was better at saving links...I have found some posts/comments, which I guess are considered 'rumors' but they aren't like wayyy out there so I think there's some or even a lot of truth in them.

Here's some that I remember:

Josh went to Pierce Community College (I read that at a komo news site)

The poster who said Josh spent all that $$ on the magnets also said that Josh had a temper - and that Susan was at a real estate meeting & had the kids - and they were crying - and Josh "went off on her" right there in front of everybody.

And IIRC, it was "John H." who posted a comment that Josh got a call from LE on that Monday when everybody was looking for him - and he "hung up on the police officer". (and IMO, John H. is Kiirsi's husband.)

just remembering comments to the best of my ability so take it FWIW.

Wow! Hanging up on LE seems to be a common denominator with some of these guys. Jason Young hung up on LE too! They never even ONCE got to interview him. By the time he got to the murder scene, he already had a lawyer!

JMHO
fran

 

[agathawannabe]

I think this is the story Texas Mist referred to...

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_14039869

I've been slow to catch up on this case - managed to read through all three threads last night.

Something I'm still fascinated with is the "sneer" in the blue-cap interview. If I remember correctly, I've heard body language profilers say that the lip will often curl back when a person is recalling something that disgusted them. JP does have that "mouth-breather" appearance about him -- and maybe I'm imagining things, but when watching the uncut interview it seems to me he really prominently pulls back his lip at a couple of different points (and it happens at times when he is *not* speaking - just as reactionary expressions)... see what you think:

http://connect2utah.com/content/video/?cid=67882

Watch how both corners of his lips curl back at [2:05] at the mention of "your wife" by the interviewer, then again at [2:52] at the mention of the the words "foul play". (I can only imagine what could have been running through his head on the topic of "foul play".)

One more observation about this footage... I get heebie-jeebies at [5:10] when JP says: "I'm just trying to figure out what I can do.. and... Both to try to find her and to take care of life in general." (Italics added for emphasis)

The way say he says "BOTH"..."AND"... seems as if he is treating "take care of life in general" as mutually exclusive of "find her". In his mind, he's drawing a contrast between finding her and life, IMO.

 

[passionflower]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92999&page=2
Susan now has her own thread on our Forensic Astrology sight.

 

[Taminator]

The only thing that really disturbs me regarding his trip to WA is that he didn't mention it to LE. If this was my husband that was missing and I knew there was an active investigation, I would make sure LE knew that I was going to leave the state and why. It really shows his disinterest in the investigation itself. Some could argue that he is showing he cares because he went to the vigil, but his lack of interest in the actual investigation and search for his wife shows that attending the vigil is merely an attention-getting venue for him...."Look at me, I'm here. I care."

 

[fran]

Originally Posted by fran
Things are mounting up.............anyone else?

.......REASONS TO SUSPECT HUSBAND OR QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ANSWERED, BEFORE HUSBAND CAN BE ELIMINATED AS A POI
fran


1. Husband not the one who reported victim missing.

2. Husband had 'odd' alibi, ie going camping in sub-zero temperartures, late at night, leaving sick wife home alone in bed, and taking two toddlers, pre five yo's into the freezing winter night.

3. Change of story details, here and there or becoming evasive.

4. Avoiding media contact. The few times media managed to get a statement. He cut them off when they asked detailed questions about camping location. His excuse was "I have to get my boys." IMHO, he's using the boys as a shield.

5. Avoiding media questions, ie "Is that where you went camping?" to which he replies, "I have to pick up my boys."

6. Avoids wife-victim's family.

7. Stops talking to LE

8. Concerned with 'his house.'

9. Speaks of victim in 'past-tense.'

10. Speaks of 'buying new clothes and comforter.'

11. Unexplained 'wet spot' in carpeting and 'fans being used to dry.'

12. Gradual release of 'friends and family' speaking of marital problems.

13. Alleged from 'friends' of husband having control issues, which included control of wife ie victim.

14. Alleged from 'friends' of 'verbal abuse' by husband of victim.

15. Alleged statement by one of the children (ok, possibly rumor) "Daddy said mommy stayed in the woods for awhile."

16. Spoke to neighbor about 'hope his bird isn't dead' but didn't talk about his missing wife.

17. Testing generator late at night on camping trip

18. Sledding in the dark? (Locals, is there a place in that area to go sledding in the dark? He told friend he was taking boys sledding, that was at 5:00p.m. and he was seen returning home at 8:30p.m.)

19. Near frost bitten hands.

20. Just the sheer distance of the alleged camp site (3 or 4 hours drive)

21. NOT one sign of husband camping where he said he was.

22. Just plain talking about 'himself,' rather than his missing wife!!!!!!!!

23. No sign of forced entry of home.

24. Friends and neighbors said it was unusual for Josh to suddenly go camping late at night with the children in the freezing weather.

25. Periodic money problems including a past bankruptcy.

26. Joshy tells his FIL the last time he saw Susan was at 12:30, but didn't bother to tell him what a great time was had by all at the wee-hours-of-the-nite-camping-in-subzero-temps-and-snowstorm-in-the-desert outing.
(from Texas Mist)

27. Left sick wife alone, never to check on her and she had NO CAR to go to doctor! (from member passionflower)

28. Wife had gone to bed sick with an ear-ache which meant she most likely had a cold. Yet, husband made her walk home from church in freezing weather, (they only had one car)

29. Susan's friend had spoken to her on Sunday and friend said Susan wasn't sick.

30. Husband said wife sick but she went to bed at 12:30 a.m.

31. Husband said he forgot it was Sunday but he also said he saw last saw Susan at 12:30 a.m. when she went to bed and he was leaving for camping with the kids. She would have reminded him it was Monday and not Sat nite/Sunday a.m. "Got his days mixed up, thought it was Sunday" yet he neither attends church nor allows for boys to go.

32. Susan told co-workers she was physically fearful of her husband.

33. Co-workers say Susan took precautions in case 'anything' happened to her.

34. Josh's BIL stated when asked if he believes Josh had anything to do with Susan's disappearance, "I pray Josh isn't responisble."

35. Susan't friends knowledge of Powell marriage............SEVERAL advised Susan to leave her husband.

36. Susan's family paid for her to have a cell phone in case she was in trouble.

37. Josh refused a lie detector test. (I know this can't be used in court, but in the court of public opinion, it points to him hiding something.

38. Disappeared for 24 hours with rental car, AFTER Susan went missing.

39. Local reporter said that at alleged camping location, you need to travel approximately 20 miles on unpaved road. It was storming. {suspicious}

40. When talking about spur of the moment camping trip with boys, Josh said they '.....liked to have smores in the morning.'

41. Wife's cellphone, purse and belongings LEFT BEHIND...

42. Josh skips town on Dec 18/19 (Fri/Sat) attorney says to spend holidays in Washington with father and step mom.

43. Sunday 2 weeks after Susan disappeared, Josh whereabouts unknown.
Has sons with him....note: husband has shown up in Washington State and attended a candle light vigil for Susan,.............NO comment to the media

44. First time LE contacted husband as at first the entire family was thought missing, Josh hung up on LE.

45. Statements by friends that Josh resented Susan's dedication to her church. (Also indications that Josh was being encouraged of his distaste for the church by his own father)

46. While at the candle light vigil in Washington, Josh was only 15 feet from Susan's parents, yet he didn't even acknowledge them.

47. Josh completely controlled Susan's spending. He told her how much she had to spend at the grocery store and what she could and couldn't buy as far as groceries or anything else was concerned.

48. LE said Josh is hindering the investigation.

49. It's not JUST that Josh left town while everyone is trying to look for his missing wife. He did NOT tell LE he was leaving or where he would be, in case his wife returned or she was found!



*Blue are added as the case developes and Websleuthers mention them


REASONS NOT TO LOOK TOWARDS HUSBAND

1. Josh said he didn't harm Susan.

2. Josh's dad said to stop "villifying" JP, he didn't harm his wife.

3. Josh's lawyer said Josh is not hindering investigation.

 

[burbqueen]

ok I'm not saying that JP killed her over religion, but I think it played a factor in it. JP was a controlling nutcase IMO. Religion can be used by an oppressed spouse as an outlet or something to lean on. Then there is the kids, if JP felt SP was spending too much time with church and she was teaching the kids the same thing then I think he probably didnt approve.

Then there is daddy telling him that Mormons are wrong and sending him literature. Maybe daddy was telling him to be a man. Take control, stop the kids from being brainwashed in her beliefs. SP is at church too much, talking to counselors too much.

Then there is the money issue. JP IMO felt maybe his manhood and control was taken away since SP was the main breadwinner. It may have hurt his pride. Most control freaks stay in competition with their wives. It's like a game to them.

Next, SP wanted to leave JP and that was the last straw! Maybe he discovered something as proof she was trying to leave or wanted to leave. He snapped and went nuts.

 

[fran]

I would hope that everyone knows that when you are in an abusive relationship, even if up to that point it's been verbally abusive, IF and when you decide to leave, that is the moment you are in the most danger!

You are NOT a person to them and the kids are not people either. You are an 'object,' just like the car or furniture. They OWN YOU!

Just about every single case we've watched here on the pages of websleuths, not counting Laci Peterson, there was TALK or possibly even action of divorce.

This just breaks my heart. This didn't have to end this way.

fran

PS.............although this does not necessarily have to do with this particular case, we've seen it in a number of other cases here. According to a study in???? 2001? One in six pregnant women are abused by their SO. Of those, 40%, it is the FIRST time of physical abuse. Just remember,........'physical abuse' is only a 'second away' when there is verbal abuse. Think of it this way, just a slight jerk of the hand, pulling a trigger, grabbing your neck, just a SECOND in time away.............fran

 

[Texas Mist]

<snip>

Susan Powell's father 'couldn't really understand' why son-in-law was at vigil

The father of a missing West Valley City woman said Monday that he couldn't understand why his son-in-law, Joshua Powell, was at a candlelight vigil Sunday in Washington state for Susan Powell.

"I heard that Joshua (the husband) had arrived," he wrote on the social networking Web site Facebook. "I saw this [sic] brother doing an interview, I couldn't really understand why Josh was there."

Cox wrote that Joshua Powell also brought his 4-year-old son and that he felt it would have been inappropriate for him to barge in on the Powell family. Joshua Powell was under an umbrella in the rain surrounded by family members to keep the media away from him.

"I just hope being here [at the vigil] will encourage Josh to help with the search," Cox said on Facebook.

Cox estimated that 200 people attended the vigil, including at least five news trucks and other media representatives.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14042094

 

[passionflower]

If my child's spouse was 'missing'..........I would be out there doing anything I could!
I would be at every vigil, in the news begging for their return............
were the Washington Powells at the vigil?
Are they helping in ANY way to help SUSAN?
Even if I had in law problems, now would be the time to extend my arms in support.

 

[Texas Mist]

Originally Posted by fran
Things are mounting up.............anyone else?

.......REASONS TO SUSPECT HUSBAND OR QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ANSWERED, BEFORE HUSBAND CAN BE ELIMINATED AS A POI
fran


1. Husband not the one who reported victim missing.

2. Husband had 'odd' alibi, ie going camping in sub-zero temperartures, late at night, leaving sick wife home alone in bed, and taking two toddlers, pre five yo's into the freezing winter night.

3. Change of story details, here and there or becoming evasive.

4. Avoiding media contact. The few times media managed to get a statement. He cut them off when they asked detailed questions about camping location. His excuse was "I have to get my boys." IMHO, he's using the boys as a shield.

5. Avoiding media questions, ie "Is that where you went camping?" to which he replies, "I have to pick up my boys."

6. Avoids wife-victim's family.

7. Stops talking to LE

8. Concerned with 'his house.'

9. Speaks of victim in 'past-tense.'

10. Speaks of 'buying new clothes and comforter.'

11. Unexplained 'wet spot' in carpeting and 'fans being used to dry.'

12. Gradual release of 'friends and family' speaking of marital problems.

13. Alleged from 'friends' of husband having control issues, which included control of wife ie victim.

14. Alleged from 'friends' of 'verbal abuse' by husband of victim.

15. Alleged statement by one of the children (ok, possibly rumor) "Daddy said mommy stayed in the woods for awhile."

16. Spoke to neighbor about 'hope his bird isn't dead' but didn't talk about his missing wife.

17. Testing generator late at night on camping trip

18. Sledding in the dark? (Locals, is there a place in that area to go sledding in the dark? He told friend he was taking boys sledding, that was at 5:00p.m. and he was seen returning home at 8:30p.m.)

19. Near frost bitten hands.

20. Just the sheer distance of the alleged camp site (3 or 4 hours drive)

21. NOT one sign of husband camping where he said he was.

22. Just plain talking about 'himself,' rather than his missing wife!!!!!!!!

23. No sign of forced entry of home.

24. Friends and neighbors said it was unusual for Josh to suddenly go camping late at night with the children in the freezing weather.

25. Periodic money problems including a past bankruptcy.

26. Joshy tells his FIL the last time he saw Susan was at 12:30, but didn't bother to tell him what a great time was had by all at the wee-hours-of-the-nite-camping-in-subzero-temps-and-snowstorm-in-the-desert outing.
(from Texas Mist)

27. Left sick wife alone, never to check on her and she had NO CAR to go to doctor! (from member passionflower)

28. Wife had gone to bed sick with an ear-ache which meant she most likely had a cold. Yet, husband made her walk home from church in freezing weather, (they only had one car)

29. Susan's friend had spoken to her on Sunday and friend said Susan wasn't sick.

30. Husband said wife sick but she went to bed at 12:30 a.m.

31. Husband said he forgot it was Sunday but he also said he saw last saw Susan at 12:30 a.m. when she went to bed and he was leaving for camping with the kids. She would have reminded him it was Monday and not Sat nite/Sunday a.m. "Got his days mixed up, thought it was Sunday" yet he neither attends church nor allows for boys to go.

32. Susan told co-workers she was physically fearful of her husband.

33. Co-workers say Susan took precautions in case 'anything' happened to her.

34. Josh's BIL stated when asked if he believes Josh had anything to do with Susan's disappearance, "I pray Josh isn't responisble."

35. Susan't friends knowledge of Powell marriage............SEVERAL advised Susan to leave her husband.

36. Susan's family paid for her to have a cell phone in case she was in trouble.

37. Josh refused a lie detector test. (I know this can't be used in court, but in the court of public opinion, it points to him hiding something.

38. Disappeared for 24 hours with rental car, AFTER Susan went missing.

39. Local reporter said that at alleged camping location, you need to travel approximately 20 miles on unpaved road. It was storming. {suspicious}

40. When talking about spur of the moment camping trip with boys, Josh said they '.....liked to have smores in the morning.'

41. Wife's cellphone, purse and belongings LEFT BEHIND...

42. Josh skips town on Dec 18/19 (Fri/Sat) attorney says to spend holidays in Washington with father and step mom.

43. Sunday 2 weeks after Susan disappeared, Josh whereabouts unknown.
Has sons with him....note: husband has shown up in Washington State and attended a candle light vigil for Susan,.............NO comment to the media

44. First time LE contacted husband as at first the entire family was thought missing, Josh hung up on LE.

45. Statements by friends that Josh resented Susan's dedication to her church. (Also indications that Josh was being encouraged of his distaste for the church by his own father)

46. While at the candle light vigil in Washington, Josh was only 15 feet from Susan's parents, yet he didn't even acknowledge them.

47. Josh completely controlled Susan's spending. He told her how much she had to spend at the grocery store and what she could and couldn't buy as far as groceries or anything else was concerned.



*Blue are added as the case developes and Websleuthers mention them


REASONS NOT TO LOOK TOWARDS HUSBAND

1. Josh said he didn't harm Susan.

2. Josh's dad said to stop "villifying" JP, he didn't harm his wife.

Hey fran, can we add - in blue - that LE has actually stated that Josh is hindering the investigation? and in red, that his attorney says he is *not* hindering investigation?