UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #5

[Dr.Fessel]

OK, do you know if Susans Bishop has spoke about her being missing?

 

[diphi]

OK, do you know if Susans Bishop has spoke about her being missing?

Just curious...why?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Just curious...why?

I just wondered this has to be a big thing in the ward and stake, just wondering if the Bishop has given any instruction, or help in the search for Susan or instructions on the treatment of Josh or just anything about the case.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Here is another thing I was wondering. I know the Mormon church has a large genealogy base, have they started doing that with DNA? Is it possible they have her DNA already?

 

[diphi]

I just wondered this has to be a big thing in the ward and stake, just wondering if they Bishop has given any instruction, or help in the search for Susan or instructions on the treatment of Josh or just anything about the case.

Oh, ok. Can't help you with that. Maybe someone else can comment.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Snipped from Tricia's post, "What is the saying, keep your friends close but your enemies closer?" yes, not a good saying in the HC case though. Thanks for your post Tricia.

 

[Tricia]

Snipped from Tricia's post, "What is the saying, keep your friends close but your enemies closer?" yes, not a good saying in the HC case though. Thanks for your post Tricia.

OK there are always exceptions to the rule as we know However in this case I feel this saying is true.
Thank you Dr. Know.

 

[Vegas Bride]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-3ZH5SqqZs[/ame]

Haven't seen where this was posted yet.

VB

 

[kiki the parrot]

Families are notorious for protecting members that have committed crimes. Now, I would not ever cover for ANY family member that I thought had anything to do with a heinous crime. (Cindy/George Anthony and many others that I see on local news who state on camera, "MY son would NEVER do such a thing!) So that does not surprise me especially since SP was against Susan's forcing LDS on Josh.

(snip, bbm) Just bouncing off your post and while a minor point, it's a sticking one for me. From what I've heard it doesn't sound to me like Susan was so much "forcing" religion on JP as asking him to put his (proverbial) money where his mouth was. IOW when they dated and married, he was active in church and then it seems the veneer or facade began to fade. Whether Susan came to feel exploited, wearied of broken promises, or even felt duped and finally realized it had been nothing but a charade or phony act on Josh' part from the start, I believe she was fully prepared to accept that. Thus IMO, it's more accurate to say what she was "forcing" him to do was to own up to that--to reconcile his actions w his words, be honest re his true self and accept responsibilty for his choice by requiring him to back up the words.

Sounds fair enough, right? But I know from experience that when dealing with a pathology severe enough, when put to this test this person will feel 'backed into a corner' and it could have deadly consequences. When you are dealing w a deceiver--particularly in the area of spiritual abuse where it's the costume of choice but authenticity is absent--you're doing daily battle because you continue to be manipulated, and as I've said before wherever there is deception there is continual conflict. Not sure if that makes sense to anyone, but after surviving nearly every form of abuse, IMO there is no more damaging form than this. Your faith will take a direct hit--or even be assaulted from every angle if a church gets involved but fails to recognize abuse--because any move toward freedom or independence is condemned as a "lack of faith" or "faithfulness." I wish she had listened to Tim Peterson, it sounds like he genuinely tried to help her and offered good counsel.

It is tragically, ironically because of Susan's forgiving heart, and strong faith (ie hope that God's grace through her could genuinely inspire her husband to become the man he had feigned to be, and the true leader of their family) that she gave her husband every possible opportunity to change. I know the courage it must have taken to set those final boundaries or requirements. A woman of strong faith does not take those vows lightly and this was also the father of her children. But you have to know just how much deprivation your heart can take... and recognize when it's God's will and Him eg working on a person's heart--and when it is you, ensnared in a hopeless mission.

I'm sure Susan had reached that point of knowing she'd done everything she could--and more. Maybe he'd have snapped regardless of when she left. But if only she'd been able to cut her losses early on before it was too late. Might sound harsh to some (if you've never been deluded into thinking you could "heal" someone's heart in your own strength) but we aren't doing God, nor our children, any favors by staying and allowing our lives to be destroyed--and an abusive man in the home will, w enough time, rather than helping as the leader of his home to bear God's image (protector, provider, comforter) for his wife and children begins tarnishing and eventually succeeds only in destroying that image. The sad reality is it isn't even truthfully "loving" to continue enabling a damaged person either--all at tremendous cost creating a climate of fear, perpetuating a cycle of confusion and disappointment for everyone else involved.

It comes as no surprise to me that Susan wrote of being in fear. And it is deeply saddening--tho not shocking--if it's ended as many of us have come to believe. For the deceiver I think it becomes a game of preserving "self" at all costs. Only it is the false self they've created which they fight so fiercely to protect and keep from being outed or exposed. People like JP become so threatened by this, so antagonized and hate-filled at someone having seen thru their act, they're willing to pit themselves against the one person they can no longer deceive: they become caught at their own game and the final duel is a battle to the death. JMO

arrot:

 

[SuziQ]

I don't fully understand all of Kiirsi's actions. I think I would help Josh to at least make sure that Susan's things weren't thrown away. But mostly I would be there to snoop and make sure LE didn't overlook something. What a golden opportunity!!!

 

[Lipin One]

Here is another thing I was wondering.

OT, but...I've been looking at your picture... and I cannot stop wondering...

... is that Santa Claus' off-season gig, FBI agent?

 

[DomCasual]

Here is another thing I was wondering. I know the Mormon church has a large genealogy base, have they started doing that with DNA? Is it possible they have her DNA already?

No, their purposes for gathering family history wouldn't be furthered with DNA.

 

[Curious Me]

(snip, bbm) Just bouncing off your post and while a minor point, it's a sticking one for me. From what I've heard it doesn't sound to me like Susan was so much "forcing" religion on JP as asking him to put his (proverbial) money where his mouth was. IOW when they dated and married, he was active in church and then it seems the veneer or facade began to fade. Whether Susan came to feel exploited, wearied of broken promises, or even felt duped and finally realized it had been nothing but a charade or phony act on Josh' part from the start, I believe she was fully prepared to accept that. Thus IMO, it's more accurate to say what she was "forcing" him to do was to own up to that--to reconcile his actions w his words, be honest re his true self and accept responsibilty for his choice by requiring him to back up the words.

Sounds fair enough, right? But I know from experience that when dealing with a pathology severe enough, when put to this test this person will feel 'backed into a corner' and it could have deadly consequences. When you are dealing w a deceiver--particularly in the area of spiritual abuse where it's the costume of choice but authenticity is absent--you're doing daily battle because you continue to be manipulated, and as I've said before wherever there is deception there is continual conflict. Not sure if that makes sense to anyone, but after surviving nearly every form of abuse, IMO there is no more damaging form than this. Your faith will take a direct hit--or even be assaulted from every angle if a church gets involved but fails to recognize abuse--because any move toward freedom or independence is condemned as a "lack of faith" or "faithfulness." I wish she had listened to Tim Peterson, it sounds like he genuinely tried to help her and offered good counsel.

It is tragically, ironically because of Susan's forgiving heart, and strong faith (ie hope that God's grace through her could genuinely inspire her husband to become the man he had feigned to be, and the true leader of their family) that she gave her husband every possible opportunity to change. I know the courage it must have taken to set those final boundaries or requirements. A woman of strong faith does not take those vows lightly and this was also the father of her children. But you have to know just how much deprivation your heart can take... and recognize when it's God's will and Him eg working on a person's heart--and when it is you, ensnared in a hopeless mission.

I'm sure Susan had reached that point of knowing she'd done everything she could--and more. Maybe he'd have snapped regardless of when she left. But if only she'd been able to cut her losses early on before it was too late. Might sound harsh to some (if you've never been deluded into thinking you could "heal" someone's heart in your own strength) but we aren't doing God, nor our children, any favors by staying and allowing our lives to be destroyed--and an abusive man in the home will, w enough time, rather than helping as the leader of his home to bear God's image (protector, provider, comforter) for his wife and children begins tarnishing and eventually succeeds only in destroying that image. The sad reality is it isn't even truthfully "loving" to continue enabling a damaged person either--all at tremendous cost creating a climate of fear, perpetuating a cycle of confusion and disappointment for everyone else involved.

It comes as no surprise to me that Susan wrote of being in fear. And it is deeply saddening--tho not shocking--if it's ended as many of us have come to believe. For the deceiver I think it becomes a game of preserving "self" at all costs. Only it is the false self they've created which they fight so fiercely to protect and keep from being outed or exposed. People like JP become so threatened by this, so antagonized and hate-filled at someone having seen thru their act, they're willing to pit themselves against the one person they can no longer deceive: they become caught at their own game and the final duel is a battle to the death. JMO

arrot:

You are so right in everything you said. In the beginning I'm sure Josh was acting like a totally different person. Susan had no way of knowing he would let her down as much as he eventually did. They had two children, and it's understandable that she did not want to end the marriage for various reasons, especially that she probably saw it as a spiritual union.

It's sad if staying in a marriage is only trying, crying, trying and crying. It is horrible to be in a marriage with a liar who keeps promising to do and make changes, to bring home money to support the family, and horrible to be with someone who abuses you emotionally, mentally, or physically. Children are very sensitive to what's going on, even that undercurrent passive aggressive stuff can upset and confuse children. The more Josh didn't come through on his promises, the less narcissist supply he received which adds to the rage going on inside, and in his mind Susan had to become the enemy. He could still fool his kids into thinking he was superdad, but Susan couldn't hide her disappointment, and probably revulsion when she kept seeing his mask slip.

I wish Susan got away too. It's Josh's fault she didn't get a chance to leave alive. It irks me so much that he's the one that is going on his happy way with the kids, off to start a new life he thinks.

Like all of you, I am waiting for those testing results. I wonder when they will ever find Susan, I pray soon.

Thank You for the great post, kiki.

 

[Bobbisangel]

This husand has never shown a lick of concern for his wife's missing. He has just moved right along with one excuse or another and now he is moving back to Washington. He has hardly been in Utah since Susan disappeared. To me it is pretty obvious that he knows where she is and he isn't concerned. He wants to run home to daddy where he will be protected and daddy will fight his battles for him. Does he not think that people in his home town question what happened to Susan and the story that he made up about that night she disappeared?

After Josh moves out of the house I hope that LE go in there and just tear that place apart. Spray it down with luminol and see if there is any blood to be found. Cover every inch of it. There has to be evidence somewhere there. I wonder what the carpet showed and also the pad and floor boards under it?

I just hope and pray that this guy doesn't get away with the murder of his wife. Maybe he thinks that if he moves so far away LE will forget all about him and Susan.

 

[eyes4crime]

Not only has Josh not shown a 'lick' of concern for his missing wife, but look what he's doing to his baby boys! In addition to doing away with the mother of his children, he wants to isolate his children in another state away from friends, teachers, school, neighbors, home, extended family, and all that is familiar to them. How dare him. Not sure there is a definition for that kind of selfishness - maybe narcissistic would fit?

 

[Patty G]

I don't fully understand all of Kiirsi's actions. I think I would help Josh to at least make sure that Susan's things weren't thrown away. But mostly I would be there to snoop and make sure LE didn't overlook something. What a golden opportunity!!!

If it was my best friend that was missing by the hands of the spouse, I know I wouldn't be there to help pack the spouse up. Nope!

 

[nyvictoria]

:truce: waving my white flag before I proceed...

I truly think we should give Kiirsi a break here. I understand the purpose of sleuthing is to get to the bottom of who did what to whom but there's just so little information out there. Josh Powell is not talking and is apparently heading back to his daddy's gated enclave to for a little more enabling.

Right now, the only one of Susan's friends who can get close enough to Josh is Kiirsi. Until we find something amiss/hinky/shady in her relationship with Josh, I don't think it's fair to even hint at condemning her. Question all you want and compare her actions to what you would do in such a case just please don't hint at condemnation until we know the full story behind her supposed "helping hand" to Josh. For all we know, she may be acting along with LE and reporting everything back to them. At least someone seems to be looking after Susan's belongings and can ensure nothing vital to Susan's disappearance or of sentimental value to her children and family is thrown away. According to OKand3Js, an acquaintance of both Kiirsi and Susan, Kiirsi is acting in Susan's best interests.

I could be wrong. OKand3Js may be wrong (sorry OK ). Or, everyone may be wrong. It's too soon to tell and for now, at the very least, there's a friend of Susan's looking over Josh's actions at the home.

This is all JMO and I mean no disrespect to anyone :truce:

 

[sniperacer]

Not only has Josh not shown a 'lick' of concern for his missing wife, but look what he's doing to his baby boys! In addition to doing away with the mother of his children, he wants to isolate his children in another state away from friends, teachers, school, neighbors, home, extended family, and all that is familiar to them. How dare him. Not sure there is a definition for that kind of selfishness - maybe narcissistic would fit?

Can I quote this at a divorce support group? Sounds like a perfect description for all the move-away mothers.

TIA

 

[passionflower]

This husand has never shown a lick of concern for his wife's missing. He has just moved right along with one excuse or another and now he is moving back to Washington. He has hardly been in Utah since Susan disappeared. To me it is pretty obvious that he knows where she is and he isn't concerned. He wants to run home to daddy where he will be protected and daddy will fight his battles for him. Does he not think that people in his home town question what happened to Susan and the story that he made up about that night she disappeared?

After Josh moves out of the house I hope that LE go in there and just tear that place apart. Spray it down with luminol and see if there is any blood to be found. Cover every inch of it. There has to be evidence somewhere there. I wonder what the carpet showed and also the pad and floor boards under it?

I just hope and pray that this guy doesn't get away with the murder of his wife. Maybe he thinks that if he moves so far away LE will forget all about him and Susan.

ITA and he sure 'looks like a man on the run', hiding behind daddy's gated community!!!t

 

[teacher 3]

I think the reason I would not help him to move is because I feel it is not the right thing to do. The kids will be uprooted from anything they have known on a day to day basis and are too young to understand. He also did not help in the search. I have given this thought and have asked myself what I would do in a similar situation and I would not help him move out.It's as if he is getting out of Dodge when I think if he really cared about his family he would be beating a path trying to find his missing wife and making sure the kids can keep their routine for now. The last thing I would do is leave. But this is just my opinion and others can and do think differently. That's OK.