UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #5

[Vegas Bride]

I really don't think anyone is "bashing" Kiirsi. IMO - most of us here - strangers to Susan and Josh - can barely stand to see Josh's face on video, let alone in person. It's difficult to understand how good friends of Susan's could bear to see Josh in person as he's packing up the house in which he most likely murdered her.

It's one thing to lend your time and support to a grieving spouse -but something altogether different to be friendly to someone you KNOW murdered your friend. It's difficult for many of us to understand. IMHO.

We must remember tho, right now Josh is the one in control of the children, I can see a very good friend wanting to do what they can to keep some kind of contact so they can have access to Susans children!

VB

 

[teacher 3]

Schmerty
That is so nice of you to pray for the boys. I worry about them too; they have lost their mother no doubt and if dad did this he will go to jail. How do little kids interpret that? Some of my students have had family members incarcerated and it is so sad. In many ways....enough said

 

[justbeachy]

I'm not sure if I would help him move or not. Part of me would think, "When hell freezes over." And part of me would want to go for ulterior motives. I'd love to get in that house and see the "behind the scenes" stuff. You know, the stuff Susan might have hidden in the back of her closet that Josh might not even know about. Packing up someone's belongings gives you a much better insight into the person they *really* are instead of the person they project to the world. Also, if I were Susan's friend, I would want to be sure that her things were treated with respect. And, as someone else pointed out, it might be a way to stay in contact with the boys. Just my .02.

 

[eyes4crime]

I'm pretty sure that when family and close friends of a suspected murderer are trying to determine guilt or innocence, the criteria used are different from what we, on the sideline, use.

I choose my friends for many reasons, but first and foremost, to match my sense of moral and ethical standards. My friends aren't perfect, but I would be totally shocked and confused, if any one of them were suspected of murder, especially the murder of a spouse. Nobody likes to think they are such a terrible judge of people as to miss a murderer, yet it happens all the time.

With that said, I'm pretty sure that giving my friend the benefit of the doubt and offering help so the children could be taken to 'safer' ground, would be the way I'd go. If evidence was overwhelming, pretty sure I would be sitting in a corner in shock, wondering how my instincts could have been so wrong and how I might have prevented such a horrible crime from happening. MOO and some thoughts on a hypothetical situation.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

You are making a very good point that I touched on earlier - when a person has not been charged with anything, and is moving freely around town under the nose of LE, lets face it, there is an aura of "don't look at me, if I was guilty I would be in custody already." Also bear in mind that even after someone is arrested the law has to see them as innocent (or at the least not guilty) until proven guilty. So there is this big pretense of being innocent that people around Josh and even close to him really have no choice but to abide by. We do have Habeas Corpus (is a legal action, or writ, through which a person can seek relief from their unlawful detention or that of another person. - see wikipedia). Imagine how much worse it would be if Josh was arrested and then the court determined that there was not enough evidence to hold him - and then ordered him released. I'm not saying any of this in defense of JP, but in defense of the the actions/attitudes of those friends and family that have been close to JP and SP.

That BBM statement could not be further from the thruth. LE can say at any point they believe Josh murdered Susan. They can tell him to his face he murdered her. No family or friend has to pretend like he is innocent and they can tell him to his face they think he did it and stay away from or shun him.

The only people that have to presume innocents are the judge and 12 jurors in the court.

 

[kiki the parrot]

WEST VALLEY CITY — Just before 10 a.m. Saturday a quiet, somber-looking Josh Powell directed a 24-foot U-Haul truck into his driveway.

He went inside his home at 6254 W. Sarah Circle accompanied by a friend, and little by little, friends and neighbors came trickling in to help him back his belongings for the move to his home state of Washington.

By late morning, at least 10 volunteers had come to help and their message was the same. Until they know what happened to Susan Powell, Josh Powell is a friend and neighbor like any other.

"The biggest thing is, nobody knows," said John Dabel, a member of Powell's LDS Church ward. "We're like everybody else. You just hope somebody you know wouldn't do something like that. But we don't even know if anything did happen...." :waitasec:

"From a public relations stand point it just makes him look worse," Kirk Graves, Powell's brother-in-law told KUTV. "I don't' know how he feels about that but I got to think that's not a good thing. (Josh) has family here and we can help him out, leaving here just means he's not available to the police or anyone else helping the Susan situation." :thumb:

Jennifer Graves said despite many questions to her brother, he has said very little about Susan Powell's disappearance.

"Normally he's very talkative, you really just can't get him to be quiet most of the time," she told the TV station. "He dominates the conversation most of the time, he talks and talks and talks, so it's very odd that he's been very quiet during all of this."

(full article at link)

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705357318/Josh-Powell-packs-up-for-move.html

arrot:

 

[kiki the parrot]

'About ten people including friends, family members, and neighbors of Joshua Powell arrived at his West Valley City home Saturday morning to help him pack a moving truck headed for Washington.

Several people who began putting boxes into the truck shortly after 9 a.m. said they wanted to help Joshua Powell despite questions surrounding the disappearance of his wife, Susan, just over one month ago. Joshua Powell is the only person of interest investigators have identified in his wife's case so far, and police have criticized him for not being more cooperative with their investigation.

Ron Stagg, who lives a few houses away from the Powells, said he came Saturday because Joshua Powell needed help.

"Regardless of who is responsible for Susan's disappearance, Josh is really hurting," said Stagg...' :boohoo:

Another member of the couple's Hunter 36th Ward, John Dabel, said church members often help neighbors pack up to move. Dabel said he is a little surprised Joshua Powell is leaving town when his wife is still missing. When asked whether he might do the same, Dabel said he didn't think he would.

"...but I have to give him the benefit of the doubt," Dabel said. "The biggest thing is nobody knows. We really still don't know if anything happened."

(article cont'd at link)

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14156510

arrot:

 

[Dr.Fessel]

This is what I don't understand. Why would being friends or church buddies of a person mean it was alright to help someone do something wrong? They all know his moving is wrong.

IMO

 

[MD MOMMY]

The one thing I can't get past is in one of his interviews he was asked how is kids are doing..he responds "they are good"..come on, their mother is NOT around. I know with my two, who are the same ages as his, if I'm gone 5 minutes it's a "where is mommy" moment. They would be HORRIFIED if I was missing for weeks.

 

[kiki the parrot]

But doc, "Josh is hurting..." And they "really don't know if anything happened..."

Heavy sigh... anyone ever heard the saying we become "so heavenly minded we're no earthly good?" Or how about being "so openminded our brains fell out." I mean honestly... it seems we're so intent on appearing "nonjudgmental," "tolerant," and "accepting" that we're fearful of taking a stand on anything anymore. :banghead:

If I thought her husband murdered my best friend--and was packin up and leaving w/out giving LE any answers--oh I might show up alright... and threaten to kick his sorry @$$ if he didn't tell where she was! :furious:


arrot:

 

[angeleleven]

The one thing I can't get past is in one of his interviews he was asked how is kids are doing..he responds "they are good"..come on, their mother is NOT around. I know with my two, who are the same ages as his, if I'm gone 5 minutes it's a "where is mommy" moment. They would be HORRIFIED if I was missing for weeks.

I know exactly what you mean....when I was in the hospital having my 3rd child, the other two went crazy being without me just for that little time. Of course that was years ago. But I know my kids would be lost without me, not 'good'.

 

[angeleleven]

'About ten people including friends, family members, and neighbors of Joshua Powell arrived at his West Valley City home Saturday morning to help him pack a moving truck headed for Washington.

Several people who began putting boxes into the truck shortly after 9 a.m. said they wanted to help Joshua Powell despite questions surrounding the disappearance of his wife, Susan, just over one month ago. Joshua Powell is the only person of interest investigators have identified in his wife's case so far, and police have criticized him for not being more cooperative with their investigation.

Ron Stagg, who lives a few houses away from the Powells, said he came Saturday because Joshua Powell needed help.

"Regardless of who is responsible for Susan's disappearance, Josh is really hurting," said Stagg...' :boohoo:

Another member of the couple's Hunter 36th Ward, John Dabel, said church members often help neighbors pack up to move. Dabel said he is a little surprised Joshua Powell is leaving town when his wife is still missing. When asked whether he might do the same, Dabel said he didn't think he would.

"...but I have to give him the benefit of the doubt," Dabel said. "The biggest thing is nobody knows. We really still don't know if anything happened."

(article cont'd at link)

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14156510

arrot:

bolded by me...give me a break....he is NOT hurting. This makes me sick! He is the one that caused all this pain. IMO

 

[Patty G]

Josh's move has it's own thread -
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93673"]Josh Plans To Pack Up Utah Home. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Bartleby]

The one thing I can't get past is in one of his interviews he was asked how is kids are doing..he responds "they are good"..come on, their mother is NOT around. I know with my two, who are the same ages as his, if I'm gone 5 minutes it's a "where is mommy" moment. They would be HORRIFIED if I was missing for weeks.

Josh's tight-lipped responses show that he's trying not to say anything to incriminate himself.

A normal response from a good father whose wife has gone missing and was not responsible for that situation would be along the lines of "They miss their mother and ask about her constantly", but if this many words came out of Josh's mouth he'd probably run on and say something he regretted.

 

[Bartleby]

Who knows - Susan may have actually started packing to leave, and he became enraged and strangled her while the boys slept. Carry her to the van, stuff her in the cargo area in the far back, cover her in blankets, go wake the boys, we're going camping boys! Turn up the heat in the car, drive until the boys were sound asleep again (nowhere near the campgrounds), pull off, turn off the motor and lights, sit for a bit. Ease outside w/o waking the boys. Ease Susan's body out the back, push it under some brush. Later come back with the rental car and bury Susan.

I agree with most of this scenario except the strangling, which doesn't explain the wet patch with fans on it that LE found. My guts instict is that that is where Susan met her death, and either Josh hit her hard enough to crack her skull there and then, or he hit her, she fell, and cracked her head in the fall. I think the wet patch was from mopping up blood (any other theories on what was spilled there?), and that is what the forensic evidence will show when it is released.

LE really fumbled the ball if they let Josh rent a vehicle and drive it over 200 miles completely unobserved. It's hard to believe that Josh wasn't the prime suspect from the first, even if they aren't allowed to call him that.

 

[passionflower]

http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_14156510

sorry if this has already been posted.........
these people will pack up Josh and help him, but won't have a search party for the victim, SUSAN!
WTHeck!
Are they nuts??? or it may be me.................

 

[Fairy1]

I'm pretty sure that when family and close friends of a suspected murderer are trying to determine guilt or innocence, the criteria used are different from what we, on the sideline, use.

I choose my friends for many reasons, but first and foremost, to match my sense of moral and ethical standards. My friends aren't perfect, but I would be totally shocked and confused, if any one of them were suspected of murder, especially the murder of a spouse. Nobody likes to think they are such a terrible judge of people as to miss a murderer, yet it happens all the time.

With that said, I'm pretty sure that giving my friend the benefit of the doubt and offering help so the children could be taken to 'safer' ground, would be the way I'd go. If evidence was overwhelming, pretty sure I would be sitting in a corner in shock, wondering how my instincts could have been so wrong and how I might have prevented such a horrible crime from happening. MOO and some thoughts on a hypothetical situation.

You make some very good points, eyes. But the boys are with their grandfather in Washington and Josh is effectively cutting all ties with the good folks of Utah by moving. My guess is that he has no intention of maintaining any relationships he has there and I don't see him returning any time soon. That is, until his trial.....

 

[Fairy1]

I agree with most of this scenario except the strangling, which doesn't explain the wet patch with fans on it that LE found. My guts instict is that that is where Susan met her death, and either Josh hit her hard enough to crack her skull there and then, or he hit her, she fell, and cracked her head in the fall. I think the wet patch was from mopping up blood (any other theories on what was spilled there?), and that is what the forensic evidence will show when it is released.

LE really fumbled the ball if they let Josh rent a vehicle and drive it over 200 miles completely unobserved. It's hard to believe that Josh wasn't the prime suspect from the first, even if they aren't allowed to call him that.

I don't want to be too graphic here, so I'm going to try to be a bit subtle - which is not my strong suit! There are certain functions that occur upon death that could explain that wet spot being something other than blood. KWIM?

Of course, it COULD be blood from a death caused by other than strangulation. But strangulation is also a viable theory that we can't rule out. It's also a very common method of murder in scenarios such as what many here have speculated happened in that house the night Susan disappeared.

 

[fhc]

I may be wrong for posting this. But why the _________ don't they corner him in the house and get answers! They probably won't get another chance.

 

[Curious Me]

There's sleuthing that needs to be done here, Friends.

JMO, I don't see blood when I try to imagine what happened to Susan. I don't think Josh would shoot her, or that he cracked her skull. I tend to think he strangled her. Really trying to figure out when another big fight occurred, when he may have drugged her, and why there was a wet spot in the LR and not in the bedroom?

Here are the questions running through my mind:

Did they argue after Jovanna left, or before she came over for dinner? Did Josh decide early that day to give Susan a drug, and to go through with a premeditated plan? Was it not planned, and she wasn't drugged, and her death a result of Josh's rage in the middle of a terrible fight? What is that wet spot? What did the boys hear or see?

Also wonder if Jovanna is helping out in the packing. Where's she been?