Identified! VA - Annandale, WhtFem 245UFVA, ~60, 'NO CODE, DNR, No Penicillin', Dec'96

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ThePhantom said:
Hmm...so no family members have consulted with law enforcement about giving a DNA sample, meaning either they aren't aware such a thing is possible, or, Jane Doe has no family members, or, she does have family members and they don't care about her whereabouts, or, her family members assumed she doesn't want them to know her whereabouts.

I can't imagine not pursuing a missing relative -- unless -- Jane Doe was totally estranged from her family and made it clear she didn't want anything to do with them.

I'm just thinking aloud here -- we have a middle aged woman who had her picture prominently displayed in local newspapers and most likely on TV -- probably once a year for several years. Now it's been almost sixteen years and no one seems to be knocking on LE's door asking them to investigate their missing persons files. Would police automatically put a family's DNA into a system if they so requested? Could their be a "hiccup" in the process? What could prevent family members from doing this? If Jane Doe had friends looking for her, what could prevent them from looking up Missing Persons websites?

Do you think anyone has been looking for her?
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I don't know. Someone earlier (I think it was carbuff) brought up that maybe family did see it and said "Well, shoot, if that's how she felt then we'll let her have her wish to remain a JD" .... also, if she's NOT from VA then there's little to no chance JD's story had aired in other states, even in other regions of VA.
 
astridxx said:
First let me start by saying I AM SORRY MY REPLIES HAVEN'T BEEN MERGED TOGETHER. I have no idea how to do that. :( I hope it's not super annoying.

Now, interesting theory. If she DID follow the Final Exit steps then I'm sure she had no problem taping that bag -- you know if she TRULY wanted to die. She was so heavily under the influence of alcohol and valium that she had the courage to do it, I'm sure. I think the book describes like, starting to fall asleep from the effects of the tranq and the alcohol -- then tie off the bag (jeez just thinking about that is making me dizzy). She could have had a friend help her, but I think it's unlikely.


As far as the evidence presented is concerned, I'm going to ask about:

1.) eye color [I have never seen that mentioned ANYWHERE]
2.) dental records [good condition? Fake teeth? Fillings?]
3.) type of bag over head [?? like a thank you/retail bag? An oven bag?]


Anything else anyone want to know??
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I would ask them if they have ever considered the possibility of homicide. They may have evidence that has definitely ruled it out.

I think I must have missed something; What is this Final Exit business? It sounds very interesting... I haven't heard anything about it yet.

Also, I read somewhere that the money found with her was all "crisp" sequential bills... Did they bother tracking the serial numbers?

Were there any reports of locals seeing her around prior to her death?
 
You know how Google and other companies are always using pop up ads to get people's attention -- wouldn't it be cool if we could do the same thing with missing persons -- pick a few every week and let their faces and info pop up on social networks....I'm reaching, I know, but it seems there must be more that can be done to get the answers to these longstanding cases. It saddens me to think that many of these souls will never be identified in this lifetime.
 
EyesOnSunday said:
I would ask them if they have ever considered the possibility of homicide. They may have evidence that has definitely ruled it out.

I think I must have missed something; What is this Final Exit business? It sounds very interesting... I haven't heard anything about it yet.

Also, I read somewhere that the money found with her was all "crisp" sequential bills... Did they bother tracking the serial numbers?

Were there any reports of locals seeing her around prior to her death?
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Final Exit is a book about how to kill yourself that our UID apparently used to arrange her last hours.

I don't see any reason at all to think this is anything other than a very sad suicide.

They don't track $50 bills.
 
astridxx said:
I don't know. Someone earlier (I think it was carbuff) brought up that maybe family did see it and said "Well, shoot, if that's how she felt then we'll let her have her wish to remain a JD" .... also, if she's NOT from VA then there's little to no chance JD's story had aired in other states, even in other regions of VA.
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Yeah, that was me.

There are so many reasons why matches don't get made. The person's not where they're supposed to be, when they're supposed to be. A mistake in one person or the other's descriptions and dates.

We've had case after case where a person missing for years had actually been found only a few miles away, but because of jurisdictional disputes, screwups, missed media coverage, etc. the family never saw the news.

We have people in Websleuths who have been looking for 20 or 30 years for a missing sister, daughter, mother. Judith Guerin's daughter has been looking for her all along. It's just not as straightforward as "why isn't anybody looking for her."
 
EyesOnSunday said:
I would ask them if they have ever considered the possibility of homicide. They may have evidence that has definitely ruled it out.

I think I must have missed something; What is this Final Exit business? It sounds very interesting... I haven't heard anything about it yet.

Also, I read somewhere that the money found with her was all "crisp" sequential bills... Did they bother tracking the serial numbers?

Were there any reports of locals seeing her around prior to her death?
Click to expand...


The Final Exit theory is that she may have followed the steps outlined in that hit book "The Final Exit" about suicide for terminally ill people. There is a chapter that outlines how to use a bag (along with sedatives and alcohol) to ease yourself into death. Final Exit came out in 1991 I think.


I believe I've read elsewhere that they couldn't track the serial numbers because the banks don't.. track the numbers..??

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=24550
 
carbuff said:
It's just not as straightforward as "why isn't anybody looking for her."
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Ain't it sad :(

My biggest heart break is the VA Beach case of the guy jogging who had a heart attack. That one just kills me...




Weird... the 2000 y/o man's birthday was "October 16th" ... Judith Geurin's birthday is October 6th. Coincidence?
 
Still nothing from FFX Co. or even Wayne Co. I left another message for Lt. Holland yesterday but he never got back to me. Now that I think about it I didn't really ask for more info, I just said "hey, possible match, contact me if you want." LOL -_-; maybe I'll try to go through the Sheriff's Office instead of the director or chief of the FFX Co. Cold Case Division...
 
Doe Network won't deny or confirm that Barbara Elms is/isn't still under investigation.
 
Just heard from FFX Co. I e-mailed him like 45 pages of my theory on JG being the decedent. We'll see what happens! :D



They're going to compare DNA -- said it'll take a little while but will let me know. :)
 
Whoa how'd you get the morgue photo?? I've never seen JG without her glasses on but from that angle JD does not look like JG.
 
Just a thought on Judith Guerin... (all my speculation, my opinion, my experiences, etc etc)
According to her Charley page, her husband "died suddenly." It's my experience that such a term is frequently ascribed to suicides. I see it frequently in obituaries.
A few years ago, my grandfather committed suicide after a long battle with cancer. My mother warned me to keep a close eye on my grandma because suicides of spouses often come one after the other. This is often swept under the rug as "she died of a broken heart."

I hope this isn't TMI for you guys. And I suppose it isn't terribly helpful, but we could really be on the right track here, and I don't want anyone to start feeling discouraged.
 
astridxx said:
9jnpmx.jpg


The circle at the top was the outdoors store (possibly an REI) and the one at the bottom is PVMG.

I know there's an REI now in a DIFFERENT location in Fairfax -- but in the 90s I'm pretty sure it was located there where that circle is on the map.
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Hey, I used to be under another user name but my computer keeled over and I'm no longer on my old e-mail address so have a new user name since I couldn't remember my old one... Anyway,s I'm the person who lives next door to the cemetery she was found in. On your map for this post that is not an REI at Fairfax Circle - it is a Hudson Trail Outfitter's and has been one since the early-mid 90's and was a pet store before. The closest REI to this area is out towards the Fair Lakes area and that has only been there about 10 years or so. I do not remember there being an REI anywhere in the N VA area until this location opened. (Not trying to be a smart *advertiser censored** just want to clarify what info I have and make sure the correct info is provided, I see you have a lot of posts and have put a lot of work into this case)

I've got a lot of catching up to do on this thread and some pictures to send of the cemetery (one of the posters had asked then I had some health issues and a dead computer - things have been crazy - I apologize for not getting them to you sooner, if you still want them please message me).

While scanning some posts I see questions about whether or not an autopsy was performed. I can't answer that for sure but can provide that an autopsy is required by law in the Commonwealth if you are not being treated by a Dr for a known condition at the time of death.
 
tschlottman said:
Hey, I used to be under another user name but my computer keeled over and I'm no longer on my old e-mail address so have a new user name since I couldn't remember my old one... Anyway,s I'm the person who lives next door to the cemetery she was found in. On your map for this post that is not an REI at Fairfax Circle - it is a Hudson Trail Outfitter's and has been one since the early-mid 90's and was a pet store before. The closest REI to this area is out towards the Fair Lakes area and that has only been there about 10 years or so. I do not remember there being an REI anywhere in the N VA area until this location opened. (Not trying to be a smart *advertiser censored** just want to clarify what info I have and make sure the correct info is provided, I see you have a lot of posts and have put a lot of work into this case)

I've got a lot of catching up to do on this thread and some pictures to send of the cemetery (one of the posters had asked then I had some health issues and a dead computer - things have been crazy - I apologize for not getting them to you sooner, if you still want them please message me).

While scanning some posts I see questions about whether or not an autopsy was performed. I can't answer that for sure but can provide that an autopsy is required by law in the Commonwealth if you are not being treated by a Dr for a known condition at the time of death.
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As far as the REI is concerned -- you have a lot of catching up to do ;)

There is an REI in Bailey's Crossroads that has been open since the early 1990s. I've already been in touch with the store manager who has worked there since the store opened. He was only able to tell me that the backpack found on the decedent was from the 1990s and was available in stores. The circle on that map was that of a place that I thought was once an REI (in the 1990s) but later turned out to not be. It's in Fairfax where 50 and 29 split again.
 
micheleonelonly said:
Just a thought on Judith Guerin... (all my speculation, my opinion, my experiences, etc etc)
According to her Charley page, her husband "died suddenly." It's my experience that such a term is frequently ascribed to suicides. I see it frequently in obituaries.
A few years ago, my grandfather committed suicide after a long battle with cancer. My mother warned me to keep a close eye on my grandma because suicides of spouses often come one after the other. This is often swept under the rug as "she died of a broken heart."

I hope this isn't TMI for you guys. And I suppose it isn't terribly helpful, but we could really be on the right track here, and I don't want anyone to start feeling discouraged.
Click to expand...


JG's husband died suddenly/unexpectedly of a heart attack, according to http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/22/nyregion/22search.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

"It began in the summer of 1988 after her husband, Joseph, died of a heart attack at the age of 57."

But I certainly do think you may have a good point about her committing suicide because of a broken heart. And I'm very sorry to hear about your grandparents :(
 
I was able to obtain a clearer picture of the woman's face upon discovery and I'm 100% positive she's JG.
 
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