VA - Bethany Stephens, 21, mauled to death by her 2 dogs, Dec 2017

[Trident]

That’s very nice that you and some others have been able to care so well for animals so inexpensively. Many if not most cannot. And even those who can, are one incident from a high bill. Unless you are going to euthanize or get rid of any pet who incurs unexpected expenses. It happens with children , cars, houses as well as with pets.

I have two dogs and am trying to get enough money to fence in a large yard so that they can run free in the back yard. No small cost.

One dog has been extremely healthy but the other one has had skin issues, injuries, and some health problems that just happened. Had to pay the vet for them. Plus with the bugs here, vaccines are essential on top of the required rabies shot. Also annual licensing, fee for use of dog park, dog leashes and collars best suited, training courses for both, and food. Because of skin Allergies, I can’t go cheap with the food. I also need to pay for their care if I am away.

So, yes, pets can cost a lot. Other dogs I’ve had, did get expensive as they got older and needed medical intervention. It happens.

I am working with an elderly woman whose dog ate something that caused blockage. Expensive surgery and medical care. This dog, a few years old, is her beloved companion but neither she nor her family could afford the medical emergency. Heck, she has trouble meeting her own medical needs. My fence fund took a hit when this happened, and I doubt I’ll get all my money back from this

Maybe not, but your reward will be in Heaven, if you believe and, if not, you will know you did a good deed and made an old woman happy.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

As to how quickly a dog will eat a corpse, well, you can be fully alive and still have an injured body part eaten.

Dogs that eat their master's corpses are just fulfilling their evolutionary duty. Proto-dogs scavenged around the outskirts of human settlements about 10,000 to 12,000 years ago, removing food scraps, feces, and other human waste. Humans, the story goes, realized this was rather useful, and let the least aggressive pups hang around. It's likely that these canine garbage-compactors treated corpses like any other waste product. Their descendants are no different.

Some dogs don't even wait until their masters die to dig in. There are many reports of*dogs eating the wounded toes*of family members. The victims are often afflicted with diabetes, which causes numbness in the feet, and they can't feel the dog gnawing at them.*

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...011/07/would_your_dog_eat_your_dead_body.html



Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[jamicat]

chances are very low that the dogs would've let someone harm her
..sure, it's possible what you say--but a very, very low possibility

I am telling you that when I do as she does, release the dogs to run freely in a large expanse, they are gone for a while. Until they get the free run out of their systems they are not back. If someone jumped me during that time or killed me, high liklihood the dogs would not be back to protect me.

My dogs are very good in the basic commands. But yelling “come” in this situation would not yield immediate results. Once they calmed down, had their romp, they return and we all walk and run together in the area with them running but tethered by an invisible line to me. But the initial rush of freedom, they’d be oblivious. Also, they are people friendly and no telling if they’d even know I was being attacked if they were at a distance I have no confidence they are protection unless right there with me and witnessing an attack and even then I would not be sure if they’d come to my defense

I have friends who have been in altercations even getting physical with their dogs right there that did not get involved, and yes, that includes Pitbull mixes. A dog is not guaranteed to come to your defense, unless specifically trained to do so, something few of us have done Even then, not 100%. Your chances of physical attack are reduced when you are with a dog because of the effect that dogs presence has on any potential attacker.

 

[Sillybilly]

Landing here at random ...

If your post includes personalizing against other WSers, your post just disappears.

Post accordingly.

Thanks.

 

[bronk4]

That’s very nice that you and some others have been able to care so well for animals so inexpensively. Many if not most cannot. And even those who can, are one incident from a high bill. Unless you are going to euthanize or get rid of any pet who incurs unexpected expenses. It happens with children , cars, houses as well as with pets.

I have two dogs and am trying to get enough money to fence in a large yard so that they can run free in the back yard. No small cost.

One dog has been extremely healthy but the other one has had skin issues, injuries, and some health problems that just happened. Had to pay the vet for them. Plus with the bugs here, vaccines are essential on top of the required rabies shot. Also annual licensing, fee for use of dog park, dog leashes and collars best suited, training courses for both, and food. Because of skin Allergies, I can’t go cheap with the food. I also need to pay for their care if I am away.

So, yes, pets can cost a lot. Other dogs I’ve had, did get expensive as they got older and needed medical intervention. It happens.

I am working with an elderly woman whose dog ate something that caused blockage. Expensive surgery and medical care. This dog, a few years old, is her beloved companion but neither she nor her family could afford the medical emergency. Heck, she has trouble meeting her own medical needs. My fence fund took a hit when this happened, and I doubt I’ll get all my money back from this

....several hundred per month is a little over doing it, yes? I don't even pay that much on my old cars
...I've had 3 dogs in the last 20 years about--and never paid that much
...our most recent dog's tail ''stressed'' from getting a bath....really nothing.....we didn't take it in.....she couldn't go to the bathroom for a day
...then her paws got red....we bathed her paws in a solution--problem solved
...we had many dogs when I was young and I can only remember one getting the mange, and one had to have a leg amputated
...but we/I never paid several hundred per month.....
$50 at most for food? so let's say ''several hundred'' at $300 per month minus dog food = $3000 a year--for 1 dog?
the fencing is not related to the dog's direct health
...when they get older, it will cost more--but not the younger years.......

 

[jamicat]

Maybe not, but your reward will be in Heaven, if you believe and, if not, you will know you did a good deed and made an old woman happy.

Aww, you are sweet. I already got my reward. I’ve known her for so many years. She came to my wedding and was friends with my MIL. I felt I had to do this because her dog was so dear to her and had a good chance of long survival with the surgery and none without. Her niece put down Some of the money but just couldn’t come up with the rest. I had it and enough credit on my card to cover the rest so when I heard about the predicament, there was no hesitation. Dog is in great shape now and everyone is happy. She and niece paying me back, each $10 a month that they insist on doing which covers my credit card finance charge and some so I’m good. Heaven doesn’t owe me for this one

 

[Zelda1010]

ETA: reply to jamicat post 337


I can't say I disagree with your sentiment. My original question was if her father was incapacitated because I don't understand the sheriff's comment that it was "not his responsibility". I was tempering my response to not publicly judge too harshly, particularly here. And even guilty of neglect to the point of abuse...that doesn't mean I think she deserved to die. I don't know if abuse or neglect charges might be appropriate for Dad.
If someone had called in a wellness check
on the animals, what would the resolution have been. I mean if my presuppositions are right and this is a completely isolated "kennel" far far from the house, I just don't fully understand how Bethany thought this was the best arrangement for her beloved animals. Did she think her dad was actually taking some care of them in her absence? They seem like valid questions that we should be able to ponder aloud in this forum without worrying someone will think we are being too accusatory....ETA, well, people can think what they want,and if pondering these things is outside TOS, so be it. It is heartwrenching.

 

[jamicat]

....several hundred per month is a little over doing it, yes? I don't even pay that much on my old cars
...I've had 3 dogs in the last 20 years about--and never paid that much
...our most recent dog's tail ''stressed'' from getting a bath....really nothing.....we didn't take it in.....she couldn't go to the bathroom for a day
...then her paws got red....we bathed her paws in a solution--problem solved
...we had many dogs when I was young and I can only remember one getting the mange, and one had to have a leg amputated
...but we/I never paid several hundred per month.....
$50 at most for food? so let's say ''several hundred'' at $300 per month minus dog food = $3000 a year--for 1 dog?
the fencing is not related to the dog's direct health
...when they get older, it will cost more--but not the younger years.......

Call your local vet and get prices for some surgeries. The dog I’m referring to, needed over $4k in surgery costs. And that is an inexpensive vet who discounted price and didn’t charge for follow up. I price checked.

Yeah, A fence would be ever so nice for me as i am not so young anymore, and for my yard, we are talking $10k for a dependable fence that my dogs can’t jump or easily dig under that meets ordinances in the neighborhood. I’ve price checked and been saving for 3 years now to get this. I wanted this for earlier dogs but could never get the money together and I don’t dare finance this with other potential issues

I just got a $200 vet bill for one of my dogs who has chronic dermitus who cut his leg badly enough that I wanted professional look see. Again, vet is reasonable for this area and gives me 10% discount for two dogs and 5% additional because one is a foster for my deployed marine nephew.

I treat myself and then to a dog wash contraption when they muddy themselves on their romp which is $5 each time— I get both dogs done for one go, and because I am tiny and in my 60s and alone, it’s the best way to clean the muck and mire from them. I go 3 times a week. $15 right there. $60 a month.

I have to pay for someone to walk the dogs several times a week when I have to leave them at home for more hours than They should be left without s break. $45 right there. I could lock them in crates but I want a certain quality of life for them. They get hesrtworm and other meds for going into woods and that’s not cheap either. One just got Lyme vaccine. I just paid for that.

As for my car, over 100k on it so I need to think about getting another. In this area AWD important especially ax I am getting up there in age. Road service, insurance, gas, tolls, routine maintenance. I just needed all new tires—$600, two were patched. Need brakes and brake pads last month, light bulbs changed (Subaru can’t rrplace myself). Had done dash function issues too. Got s speeding ticket, yes, my fault and I think my insurance going to go up. So my car is expensive too and it’s paid up.

I guess I could cut a lot of that out but for me, it’s part of what I feel is care for them. I feel privileged I can afford this.

 

[Trident]

Call your local vet and get prices for some surgeries. The dog I’m referring to, needed over $4k in surgery costs. And that is an inexpensive vet who discounted price and didn’t charge for follow up. I price checked.

Yeah, A fence would be ever so nice for me as i am not so young anymore, and for my yard, we are talking $10k for a dependable fence that my dogs can’t jump or easily dig under that meets ordinances in the neighborhood. I’ve price checked and been saving for 3 years now to get this. I wanted this for earlier dogs but could never get the money together and I don’t dare finance this with other potential issues

I just got a $200 vet bill for one of my dogs who has chronic dermitus who cut his leg badly enough that I wanted professional look see. Again, vet is reasonable for this area and gives me 10% discount for two dogs and 5% additional because one is a foster for my deployed marine nephew.

I treat myself and then to a dog wash contraption when they muddy themselves on their romp which is $5 each time— I get both dogs done for one go, and because I am tiny and in my 60s and alone, it’s the best way to clean the muck and mire from them. I go 3 times a week. $15 right there. $60 a month.

I have to pay for someone to walk the dogs several times a week when I have to leave them at home for more hours than They should be left without s break. $45 right there. I could lock them in crates but I want a certain quality of life for them. They get hesrtworm and other meds for going into woods and that’s not cheap either. One just got Lyme vaccine. I just paid for that.

I guess I could cut a lot of that out but for me, it’s part of what I feel is care for them. I feel privileged I can afford this.

How about an invisible fence? One of my daughters had one and it worked very well.

 

[Lilibet]

....several hundred per month is a little over doing it, yes? I don't even pay that much on my old cars
...I've had 3 dogs in the last 20 years about--and never paid that much
...our most recent dog's tail ''stressed'' from getting a bath....really nothing.....we didn't take it in.....she couldn't go to the bathroom for a day
...then her paws got red....we bathed her paws in a solution--problem solved
...we had many dogs when I was young and I can only remember one getting the mange, and one had to have a leg amputated
...but we/I never paid several hundred per month.....
$50 at most for food? so let's say ''several hundred'' at $300 per month minus dog food = $3000 a year--for 1 dog?
the fencing is not related to the dog's direct health
...when they get older, it will cost more--but not the younger years.......

Not just directed at this post....The original poster, Gitana (post 276) was simply giving her opinion about what care would cost for a young and large dog in HER situation.

I don't have a stable enough schedule to devote to a young dog and I would never just leave such highly social pack animals alone for hours. It makes them insane. IMO adequate care of a large dog costs about $700.00 a month. Because I would have to put the dog in a good doggie daycare during the week while working and high quality food and vet care is expensive.
BBM

Obviously, plenty of folks can have dogs without needing good doggie daycare. But if Gitana estimates that amount for her to have a dog, that’s accurate for HER because she would need doggie daycare. She may live in an area that’s expensive for vets too. She’s not saying everyone needs to pay hundreds. I don’t understand the pushback on this from so many.

 

[jamicat]

How about an invisible fence? One of my daughters had one and it worked very well.

For one of the dogs , would likely work. But then he is not the bolter. The other has strong prey instinct, impervious to pain and high focus. He bolts and goes like a bullet. Yes, Pit mix though he can often “pass” as not since he is also part lab which shows the most. But muscles, speed and strength of a pit. Not a good candidate for the fence.

Also i live in an area with no leash law and too many loose dogs, a lot of them pit mixes. I want the fence to keep them out. And a lot of stray cats which are what are driving my dogs crazy in terms of leaving the yard.

I want a 6 ft privacy fence. Two of my direct neighbors have them so about 1/3 of the yard (i have about an acre back there ) is covered. It’s been my pet Project for years, sigh. But so far I am physically able to walk the dogs on leash and they are trained to obey. It’s just that I’d love to let them loose to romp back there but cannot without that fence. I walk the dogs carrying pepper spray due to strays in area but never had to use on account of my own dogs.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

For one of the dogs , would likely work. But then he is not the bolter. The other has strong prey instinct, impervious to pain and high focus. He bolts and goes like a bullet. Yes, Pit mix though he can often “pass” as not since he is also part lab which shows the most. But muscles, speed and strength of a pit. Not a good candidate for the fence.

Also i live in an area with no leash law and too many loose dogs, a lot of them pit mixes. I want the fence to keep them out. And a lot of stray cats which are what are driving my dogs crazy in terms of leaving the yard.

I want a 6 ft privacy fence. Two of my direct neighbors have them so about 1/3 of the yard (i have about an acre back there ) is covered. It’s been my pet Project for years, sigh. But so far I am physically able to walk the dogs on leash and they are trained to obey. It’s just that I’d love to let them loose to romp back there but cannot without that fence. I walk the dogs carrying pepper spray due to strays in area but never had to use on account of my own dogs.

This is why many rescues will not adopt to folks who rely on an underground fence. They are unreliable (lots of dogs are willing to get zapped to catch a squirrel), and they don't keep dangers or children out.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[jamicat]

ETA: reply to jamicat post 337


I can't say I disagree with your sentiment. My original question was if her father was incapacitated because I don't understand the sheriff's comment that it was "not his responsibility". I was tempering my response to not publicly judge too harshly, particularly here. And even guilty of neglect to the point of abuse...that doesn't mean I think she deserved to die. I don't know if abuse or neglect charges might be appropriate for Dad.
If someone had called in a wellness check
on the animals, what would the resolution have been. I mean if my presuppositions are right and this is a completely isolated "kennel" far far from the house, I just don't fully understand how Bethany thought this was the best arrangement for her beloved animals. Did she think her dad was actually taking some care of them in her absence? They seem like valid questions that we should be able to ponder aloud in this forum without worrying someone will think we are being too accusatory....ETA, well, people can think what they want,and if pondering these things is outside TOS, so be it. It is heartwrenching.

I get the impression that the sheriff is not so bright. I take issue with a lot of his statements that I’ve reiterated on this board.

My guess is that Bethany needed what she felt was a temporary place to park the dogs while she could not have them with her. Her dad had the property and reluctantly agreed to let. her cage them outside in those dog pens that house many dogs on the condition that they remained her dogs and he had no responsibilities towards them. Just let them be there abc she had to come take care of them.

And she did. But not often enough. Likely could not afford to pay someone to do it regularly and couldn’t get commitments to have someone pitch in either. And she didn’t get things resolved before winter and cold weather came.

These were indoor coddled dogs suddenly stuck outside in s kennel 24/7. Not dogs so raised. It was not right that they were so treated. Wrong on part of both Bethany and her Dad. But at this point, not something to dump on a family who lost this young vibrant woman they loved.

I doubt any authorities would of could intervene. Many dogs treated worse. Right here in my town. A lot of outdoor dogs, many just staked on a short line with spiked collars. With Bethany’s dogs, the true cruelty was that this was a huge change in their lives. Plus I don’t think they were fed daily. I know my one dog lives for his daily meals. High point of his day and if I’m late, he lets me know it.

Those big pit bulls have intense appetites. Stuck in cage all day and not fed on reliable schedule can make for mean dogs

 

[Jade]

I'm sure it's not comprehensive, as these are clearly overviews of breeds. However, I still believe it is correct.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

If a self described animal professional doesn’t believe an owner or a link from the Bull Terrier Club in favor of a poorly done overview no wonder there is so much misinformation on breeds.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

If a self described animal professional doesn’t believe an owner or a link from the Bull Terrier Club in favor of a poorly done overview no wonder there is so much misinformation on breeds.

I'm not sure what you are taking issue with, here. As far as I understand, you believe they were primarily bred to be gentlemen's dogs, and while this is certainly part of their history, most sources also include that they originated as fighting dogs.

I'm not sure if we are misunderstanding each other or what, because I do not really understand this response.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[jamicat]

This is why many rescues will not adopt to folks who rely on an underground fence. They are unreliable (lots of dogs are willing to get zapped to catch a squirrel), and they don't keep dangers or children out.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

In this area, there would be no movement from the shelter if fence were a requirement. Most people do not have fenced yards. And when a shelter is overfilled with dogs, concessions have to be made to place them.

By those standards, by the way, i would not have been eligible to adopt a dog. I don’t have a fenced in yard. My dogs are both licensed and trained. They get regular vet care. They are walked often and get several romps in the fields each week. They are well socialized. They are fed premium dog foods and are well bathed and brushed. Though
I am not wealthy and cannot have all the extras I want in life, my necessities are well covered.

 

[Trident]

In this area, there would be no movement from the shelter if fence were a requirement. Most people do not have fenced yards. And when a shelter is overfilled with dogs, concessions have to be made to place them.

By those standards, by the way, i would not have been eligible to adopt a dog. I don’t have a fenced in yard. My dogs are both licensed and trained. They get regular vet care. They are walked often and get several romps in the fields each week. They are well socialized. They are fed premium dog foods and are well bathed and brushed. Though
I am not wealthy and cannot have all the extras I want in life, my necessities are well covered.

I'm moving to the country in the next few months and plan to get a rescue dog. I won't have a fence either. I wonder how that will work out since it's farm country.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

In this area, there would be no movement from the shelter if fence were a requirement. Most people do not have fenced yards. And when a shelter is overfilled with dogs, concessions have to be made to place them.

By those standards, by the way, i would not have been eligible to adopt a dog. I don’t have a fenced in yard. My dogs are both licensed and trained. They get regular vet care. They are walked often and get several romps in the fields each week. They are well socialized. They are fed premium dog foods and are well bathed and brushed. Though
I am not wealthy and cannot have all the extras I want in life, my necessities are well covered.

Most shelters do not have requirements like this, but most rescues do. We do not require a fence if they are walked. But we will not adopt out to someone who relies on underground fencing for containment.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[Knox]

Opposing views can be respectfully voiced, or as we say round here:Scroll & Roll. When threads stall due to lack of new information, it can get a little testy. We have some really great posters, with solid knowledge. I appreciate that

We'll likely not see any new information until the tox reports come back. IMO, we may never know the exact cause of the attack, just some likely scenarios.

 

[Jade]

Nope. I’m in Pitbull country. Sadly. I’ve pulled many a Pitbull in attack mode way from other dogs. We have a problem in that there is no leash law here and too many people let their dogs run loose and they get away. By far the most common dog here are the pit mixes both in homes and the shelters. And strays. Also, there are dog fighting rings here The vets, LE in the area along with many of us concerned about the situation have done extensive research on the situation, and looked at the stats on pits

I am not a Pitbull advocate. I am an animal advocates, and a community safety advocate. The pits do not tend to attack adults. People aggression is not one of their traits. They were bred to be fighting dogs but submissive and good with people. Most pit mixes are people friendly but have issues with other animals. I am tinier and and much older than Bethany but have not hesitated to grab a pit after prey. I would not be so quick to break up a dog fight however. Pits actually make poor guard dogs except by presumed reputation.

The preponderance of Pit mixes among people not carefully caring for their dogs is what leads to more human bites reported for these dogs . And because the bites are too serious to ignore whereas a small dog bite you might let go. You don’t see big men make police reports that they were bitten by a Bichon Frise or chihuahua. I was able to access records of attacks, bites along with estimated dogs in our area. The pit mix info is difficult to get accurately because fewer of them are licensed and registered whereas most pure bred dogs are. The more upscale areas tended to have more registered dogs. Walking down certain streets in my narea, where few if any dogs are registered, I could see many dogs. Mostly mixes and mostly pit mixes. Official shelter records back this up. We have gotten the local shelters to insist on the dogs being licensed, registered as well as neutered and inoculated upon adoption but a year after that, there is no control and pit registration goes to nearly nothing after that.

Where Pitbull mixes have huge numbers in terms of problems is in attacking other dogs and small animals. I feel that the size and quick movements of small children can also trigger that prey instinct. No dogs should be around young kids unless under adult control IMO but most people take that chance. Dogs who show very low energy, docile B.B. dispositions, , low prey drive and good reputations, we tend to be lax about.

Do you have links to back up any of that?

PB country here too but mostly pure.

I ask because overwhelming evidence including linked real cases on WS says otherwise.

Have you read any of the actual case links on this forum?

Because we all have stories that are antidotal but an overall view of the problem can be seen from reading widely of the attacks. Many were well cared for and loved house pets that kill their owners.

A young woman was killed a few weeks ago close to me in Alabama.

And in contrast to your previous post that dogs don’t advance from killing other animals to humans is disputed in this actual case:

Officials have confirmed that one woman was killed in a dog attack this morning while another woman was injured. Deputies say they found 24-year-old Emily Mae Colvin dead on arrival…

Officials said that the dog tried to attack a deputy and was shot. Scottsboro Animal Control along with deputies and Section Police rounded up another four dogs involved. All five dogs have been described by authorities as pitbulls.

Sheriff Chuck Phillips says this is the first time the dogs have attacked a human, but it's not the first complaint they've received. "We received a call back sometime ago, maybe these dogs and the victim's dog had killed llamas that were in a pasture nearby. That's the only complaint we have ever had on them," Sheriff Phillips said.

http://whnt.com/2017/12/07/one-woman-dead-another-injured-after-dog-attack-in-section/