well, in my experience--having dogs for over 50 years--I've never had anything near that cost...isn't a 4K operation more uncommon than not?
once the dog gets to old age, if it has problems--the dog is better off being put to sleep
VA - Bethany Stephens, 21, mauled to death by her 2 dogs, Dec 2017
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once the dog gets to old age, if it has problems--the dog is better off being put to sleep
Opposing views can be respectfully voiced, or as we say round here:Scroll & Roll. When threads stall due to lack of new information, it can get a little testy. We have some really great posters, with solid knowledge. I appreciate that
We'll likely not see any new information until the tox reports come back. IMO, we may never know the exact cause of the attack, just some likely scenarios.
You are probably right. Those two dogs likely did kill her. What the trigger was, no way well ever know. The only thing the tox report could do to make a big difference in this case is if evidence is there that Bethany was NOT killed by those dogs but by some human intervention.
Hopefully very careful analysis is done to eliminate that slim possibility.
I don't just believe my link backs up that it was a distant fighting ancestor that was branched off of to become the Bull Terrier.
The Bull Terrier was bred to stand its ground but not be an aggressor.
I have done my research and there is a lot of confusion about the breed in even usually reliable sources.
I'm sorry if I came off as mean in my reply you are obviously a lovely person.
I am too enthusiastic about this subject so will give it a break.
We are both right- sort of- but me more! LOL
You are lucky. I had a dog that lived to age 19. Had issues, diabetic and some medical fixable issue every year but happily quietly living making much joy till he died
Another had cherry eye.
Around here, most dogs put to sleep if families cant afford a painful medical fix. Im one of the lucky ones thAt can indulge
The dog Im fostering, was very expensive to my nephew as he did have to pay for care, given he is military. A lot of military in that situation as well dual working families. Someone often has to walk that dog midday. Also this dog has some chronic health issues that need monitoring and occasional addressing which does cost. I have had to take him to the vet every month Ive had him for one thing or another. Unfortunately, they were issues that did not clear up on their own. A cut that got infected. A prolapsed rectum. Dermitus that we suspected was mange abdvthough not, needs care. Allergy testing and remedy is expensive. Ive been holding off on that.
I guess my cousins aunt who is in her Late 80s and alone could have had her dog euthanized but that dog does make her days special and with meaning and she was so distressed at prospect of losing her. Dogs do provide wonderful emotional therapy to people. We decided it was worth the cost to save the dog and did. Had she been an elderly dog or recovery doubtful, wed have not made that call
D
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I'll let you have it with being "more right" in this case because I would likely feel the same way if the topic were chows, cats, or chickens, my preferred pets (even though I will probably never be physically capable of handling a chow's grooming needs again, and so am consigned to the likely hell of never having one under my guardianship again).
Peace and blessings to you, fellow dog lover.
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Many people have dogs that are aggressive to other animals. But fine with people. That is not considered grounds to put down a dog most of the time. With working dogs, this happens not infrequently, and the dog does have to go if it cant be trusted around the creatures its s supposed to be caretaking, in particular. But no strong. correlation to turning on humans. Youd be hard put to find recalls to put down a dog as dangerous to people because it goes after other animals.
That the dogs in your example went after llamas was not something that most people would consider as a danger to people. In this case that they did attack a person may or may not have been a correlated event but doubt if most people would say that the llama incidents were warning signs for this happening.
In this case, with so many dogs involved, likely a pack mentality thing.
gitana1
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Very informative, well-reasoned article.
Pit bulls don't have locking jaws though. Their basic jaw structure is the same as other dogs. But they do seem to hold on long.
Many. Wolf hybrids. Huskies and Malamutes, Chows, Sharpeis, Shepherds. All have been involved in attacks in which they can't be stopped and keep going in a frenzy.
I agree that the article is a good one. Only issue I have with it is the emphasis on the dogs feeding on Bethany. LE seems to think that is definitive proof that those dogs killed their owner and it means nothing. It just means they were eating dead meat, not that they killed her. Also makes it a far more grisly story. I did not and do not see the point of adding that information, let alone showcasing it.
This is despite the fact that I agree that the dogs most likely did kill her.
Lilibet
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My takeaway from what LE said wasn’t that the dogs eating her proved they had killed her. It was that there were no injuries consistent with a human killing Bethany. No gunshot. No strangulation. No rape. LE was getting tons of calls asserting that this was murder and their purpose in showing photos was to show the types of injuries she had that were consistent with a dog attack. I think LE was trying to make the whole situation clear and media ran with the eating IMO.
keeleydoll
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From experience with obedience and hunt training labs, I wonder if, as a trainer out of habit she carried treats or jerky bits in pants pockets and the scent was just too much for very hungry dogs who were confused and upset about their situation.
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As a person who lived in the country for forty years, it depends on how close your neighbors are.
Some people feel the country is a place with no rules. That may be the case where you move to or it may be there are lots of rules because of farms, water issues, amount of animals, animal waste and so on
Lilibet
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When we lived in the country, most fences were to keep animals contained to their own property. Our goats were in a corral. But our neighbor’s cows would get out through their crummy fence and come on our property where our dog would chase them. We didn’t fence to keep them out or keep our dog on our 10 acres, but I suppose we should have in retrospect.
I read LE.’s exact quote and I do not see how the point was made that the dogs definitely killed Bethany. Until all the forensic results are in and a careful examination of Bethany’s body is done, it cannot be eliminated that she was not killed by other means. IMO, it only matters if some other human intervention was involved. I believe that is the only issue that needs to be eliminated so that some murderer is not out and about. That Bethany was so ravaged by the dogs feeding on her actuall6 makes it more difficult to eliminate this possibility.
Unlike other commentators in the news; and persons wanting to clear the dogs, my interest is in making sure a crime was not committed here. As much as i love dogs; and yes, that includes pit bulls, I’m not on this board to advocate for them, but to advocTe for murder victims. That dogs are involved here makes this an extra painful story, in that, yes, I am a dog lover who takes her two dogs out alone for loose romps in secluded areas. Hits a bit close to home.
As I have said a number of times, I believe it is the most likely scenario that Bethany was killed by her dogs. But that should be thoroughly investigated.
D
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Yup. People should not expect to be allowed to leave their dogs loose in the country unless they are certain those dogs will never trespass and take out a flock of someone else's chickens, kill neighbor cats, or harass other animals. Country people do not take kindly to trespassing dogs and in most cases they have every right to shoot them if they are about to injure their animals /livestock.
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Lilibet
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I see what you mean. I believe LE said they were still investigating. I think they were just trying to address some of the calls they were receiving, which were quite angry and aggressive as I recall reading. Time will tell. But I don’t think LE has made a final determination...more an elimination.
Even out in the country, you are responsible for your dogs and if someone should be jogging along the country road or say have dogs being walked, you still have the responsibility that your dog does not bother them Your dogs should not be trespassing on other people’s property either. . It’s just that it’s less likely to happen
I take my dogs into the middle of 800 acres owned by friends and families so that the likelihoods of them leaving the area or anyone being on the property are remote. But I am still taking a risk when I take the dogs off leash. My dogs however have shown no signs of aggression and have behaved predictably in this scenario for a couple of years.
I have a cousin “in the Country” on 4 acres but she has neighbors not too far from her house so I do not let my dogs loose there; though they probably will stay within her property. It’s just too close and a running cat or squirrel might motivate my bolter to take off and end up in someone’s property. My other dog highly unlikely to do so as I can leave him off leash with a high degree of reliability in town.
But you are always taking some chance of a dog taking off where you don’t want when you let it loose and it’s not an enclosed space. That’s why I want a fence around my yard.
People who knew the dogs and Bethany’s relationship with them found the idea that the dogs killed her unbelievable. Dog lovers, particularly those who are pit bull advocates found this an attack on the dogs, the breed in particular. Before the evidence was all in
Though I think the police are likely correct in blaming the dogs, as I have stated in several posts, LE public comments have been inaccurate in many ways. Not impressive at all, IMO. They made blatantly untrue statements as well as stupid ones
Spellbound
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If the dogs did not kill her, but rather a person murdered her, what could be the possible means used? There are no signs of strangulation, gunshots, knife wounds at this point. We really need to know all the results of tests to be final before we can say absolutely there was no murder, but at this point it does seem most likely the dogs did this. Those tests are being done, and will take time to come back (I do not recall where I read that, but it can be found if someone wants to search)
LE seems confident that the dogs killed Bethany, but their public statements are not so convincing, IMO. The clincher that was revealed to dispel other theories was that the dogs were eating. But given LE had also stated she had been dead awhile and that so much of her was gone that it was difficult to see whT had happened to her, it certainly doesn’t sound like anything certain to me. That for now there is a lack of any other evidence when so much of her body is too far gone to tell is an indication to me that LE needs to examine further and make sure there isn’t something there. Like a bullet through that mangled chest.
Clearly ther3 are signs the dogs attacked her. But did they cause her death. Did someone else, say; punch her out so she was lying on the ground when the dogs found her.
I’ve mentioned earlier that I let my dogs loose in an open area and they will run like crazy for the first 10-15 minutes. If i were with someone who attacked me or someone came along and did the same, I have no confidence, my dogs would rush back. Or even come to my defense, especially if it’s someone they know and like. They don’t know what distress on my part is. We can assume a dog will come to our rescue when we need it, but that often does not happen. My dogs are very likely to defend me from other dogs, but people....ummm, I don’t know. They’ve never acted adversely towards any human. I’ve had arguments and been angry with husband and kids in front of dogs, and they’ve shown no reactions.
So, Bethany was not safe from others just because she was armed with two pit bulls. Especially if those pit bulls knew the offender.
They say the tests will take 3 months before completion. Until a thorough investigation is completed to eliminate any other cause of death, I restain a small doubt that it was the dogs at th3 same time acknowledging it is likely the dogs did it.