VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #1

[deita]

Services Held Saturday for Two Farmville Murder Victims

Friends and Family of Longwood University Professor, Dr. Debra Kelley and her 16-year old daughter, Emma Niederbrock, said their final farewell.

Two separate services were held at Farmville United Methodist Church, where Dr. Kelley attended daily and her daughter was baptized.

Dr.Kelley's service was filled with testimonials from her former students sharing their fondest memories. Emma's service was more intimate, with mostly her closest friends in attendance. It also focused on her attempts to overcome life struggles.

The family of Dr Kelley and her daughter, Emma chose to have their bodies cremated.

www.wtvr.com

 

[majikposhun]

Speaking of connection - I have done some of my own research - based on science and music, and here is what I found:

Researchers Examine Connection Between Rap Music and Sexism


This is the most significant piece I found: Music and the Brain

This is even more informative: http://library.wcsu.edu/dspace/bitstream/0/35/1/tropeano.pdf

 

[dangrsmind]

Who cares if any of this stuff is new? That doesn't mean that it's not wrong or right. Why are you stuck on our views of the music and people? Who cares? Everyone has opinions. Opinions are like *advertiser censored**holes, we all have one. We accept each others for just what they are, each others opinions. Instead of just accepting what we have to say as "our opinion" you just seem to want to argue the fact. Why? Not to mention, was this punk band you speak of cult like? Even if they were, did their fans murder people?

No I wouldn't say they were cult-like but yes one of their fans did commit a murder. He was actually fairly famous himself and his descent into madness and the murder was documented in a movie later. At the time a lot of people were shocked and offended by the name of the band itself which invokes a famous murder of a national hero. The lead singer later went on to become a political figure in the area.

My point was however that the issue of involvement with underage fans is not new to the American music scene and not unique to this musical genre, group of people, or any specific artist. There has been a lot of hang wringing on this board over this "new" and "horrible" set of developments known as "horrorcore". But I don't see a lot new or innovative about SKR or about horrocore more generally. The music reminds me of other artists and the incorporation of satanic themes is so old its bordering on being hackneyed IMO. These people are not cultural innovators, that was my point...

As far as suggesting that SKR is a cult, I think you use that term too loosely. Is Mormonism a cult? What about the Hasidim? Members of both groups have committed murders. What about the Beatles? Didn't their (Manson) cult followers commit murder? Their music contains hidden messages with occult meanings...

I argue this point because the known facts surrounding this case don't support the argument that the people at SKR, whatever you might think of them, orchestrated the murder or were involved in its planning. That has been suggested by several posters here and elsewhere, and I think that is just plain wrong and potentially libelous given the existing evidence I've seen. Because some don't approve of the SKR lifestyle or find their artistic expression repulsive, they have concluded that SKR were involved in a murder. Wrong and fallacious reasoning.

New evidence or other new developments could make me change my mind of course. And since we are asking each other questions, why do you care about the case or what I say about it?

 

[dangrsmind]

Speaking of connection - I have done some of my own research - based on science and music, and here is what I found:

Researchers Examine Connection Between Rap Music and Sexism


This is the most significant piece I found: Music and the Brain

This is even more informative: http://library.wcsu.edu/dspace/bitstream/0/35/1/tropeano.pdf

This is Your Brain on Music is a great book, I gave that to my wife a ways back. Highly recommended.

I can provide some additional links:

http://www.apa.org/releases/violentsongs.html

this is the paper I was referring to regarding violent lyrics. A must read if you are interested in this case and this area.

A lot of the studies I perused use very small populations and therefore are of questionable merit. For example, this study is based on only 30 students if I recall correctly.

Also a lot of the studies are limited because they document only correlation and not causation, i.e. http://www.springerlink.com/content/x064w8n772m04xt7/

I didn't find any comprehensive study of music and murder. But there are a number of papers analyzing violent imagery in music videos and rap music, i.e. http://www.humnet.ucla.edu/echo/volume4-issue2/keathley/keathley.pdf

Also, please read this article on the famous Ice-T song "Cop Killer": http://www.markville.ss.yrdsb.edu.o...ime_Clarifying_the_Cop_Killer_Controversy.pdf

 

[dangrsmind]

I understand, despite my puny brain. My point is that someone will, and it's odd that we see people insisting that there is NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER between the acts and the music. And I do see a connection, whereby someone who may be unstable is pushed over the edge.

I'm not advocating censorship of this type of music, but let's be honest: Nobody has ever chopped up their friends with an axe after an ABBA concert. The music/lifestyle may not be at fault in a legal sense, but we're blind if we say there's not connection whatsoever.

No listening to Abba makes people commit suicide, not murder.

See http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/2008/01/19/lovers-tiff-led-to-suicide-91466-20368719/

It also apparently leads to the invasion of neighboring countries...

 

[dangrsmind]

At the risk of being further labeled an "Internet pseudo intellectual" because I reference an online encyclopedia from time to time, some might find this article interesting.

 

[tapu]

It's actually the baseless arrogance rather than the Wiki references that garner you that kind of label.

 

[dangrsmind]

It's actually the baseless arrogance rather than the Wiki references that garner you that kind of label.

Baseless? Like all of your postings here?

If you want to understand crime and criminality, start with the known facts about the crime and not your own biases and opinions. You have to reject ideas that come to mind from your personal biases alone in order to understand what really happened here.

Talk with LE professionals and understand how they work and think. Talk to criminals and understand how they work and think. Read some relevant books or scholarly papers. These would be some ideas of how to start and it is what I did back a few years ago when I got into the fraud prevention business.

Otherwise you are just wagging your tongue...

 

[deita]

It also apparently leads to the invasion of neighboring countries...

which countries do you mean? iraq, afghanistan?

 

[dangrsmind]

which countries do you mean? iraq, afghanistan?

That was a joke, but the reference was to Georgia. Is W an ABBA fan too?

That would explain a lot actually...

 

[deita]

That was a joke, but the reference was to Georgia. Is W an ABBA fan too?

That would explain a lot actually...

google EU report on the Georgia-Russia war

ps sorry for off topic :angel:
pps Bush's iPod reveals music tastes

 

[KindraLore]

So now you are bringing politics into this discussion too?

BTW - the FACTS are that LE has brought in an occult specialist so they arent as easily dicounting this band's music/lifestyle to the case as you.

 

[deita]

So now you are bringing politics into this discussion too?

BTW - the FACTS are that LE has brought in an occult specialist so they arent as easily dicounting this band's music/lifestyle to the case as you.

Regarding the crime scene, a source with knowledge of the Farmville murders investigation said that police did not find any overt evidence that the slayings were ritualistic in nature.

wtvr.com/wtvr-farmville-murders-new-information

 

[Nikolai]

I understand, despite my puny brain. My point is that someone will, and it's odd that we see people insisting that there is NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER between the acts and the music. And I do see a connection, whereby someone who may be unstable is pushed over the edge.

I'm not advocating censorship of this type of music, but let's be honest: Nobody has ever chopped up their friends with an axe after an ABBA concert. The music/lifestyle may not be at fault in a legal sense, but we're blind if we say there's not connection whatsoever.

There has always been and always will be violent rap, thats just the way it is. There has been rap music about gang-banging, about killing enemies and even killing the police before. In real life though most of these rappers never hurt anyone in their lives and most are probably completely harmless. Just the same is probably true of these horrorcore idiots. The music is compltely redundant and lame, more reason a fan shouldnt take it so seriously.

This stupid music when combined with the wrong mind could possibly have terrible results, or it may have made no difference at all. I dont think so much blame should be put on the rapper because of something a bonehead fan did. Someone as young as even 20 should realize this isnt to be taken seriously, especially when its about breaking the law. Im sure McCroskey will have the same view as some here, completely blaming that stupid music and the musicians for his actions.

 

[gxm]

(respectfully snipped)
The science as I understand is this. A broad range of people, essentially everyone, exhibit a tendancy to aggression (in a specific laboratory defined sense) after listening to aggressive lyrics. It didn't seem to matter if the lyrics were displayed in a comedic setting either. This is why it is a good idea to listen to mellow music while driving BTW.

OT, a little levity. One morning I was driving to work listening to Nine Inch Nails and "singing" along. My singing was more like screaming and I was really getting into it. Anyway I get to work to be met by a co-worker who takes me to task for yelling at her in the car. Apparently she had been in the car in front of me and thought my "singing" was directed at her.

Back on topic, I pretty much take your stance. I don't believe that music is to blame for the murders Sam committed. It makes perfect sense that Sam was attracted to this music. It spoke to something inside of him, something that was already there; and IMO it would have come out one way or another, with or without horrorcore.

 

[dangrsmind]

So now you are bringing politics into this discussion too?

BTW - the FACTS are that LE has brought in an occult specialist so they arent as easily dicounting this band's music/lifestyle to the case as you.

No, I was bringing humor into it.

As far as the so called occult specialist, I spent some time researching him. The reviews seem mixed. To his credit, he doesn't claim to be an expert but rather a student himself. I also view my work as one of perpetual study rather than achieved expertise, shocking I know.

I also found and downloaded a copy of one of his presentations. I think these are not supposed to be released, so I won't post the link but you can probably find it yourself. I was not very impressed with it frankly. Only the most vague and general information, some of it misleading IMO. He includes the Egyptian "ankh" and the Star of David in his list of occult symbology to look out for.

Also, I was the one that mentioned and linked to SickTanick's blog posting about the use of gematria (occult numerological encryption) in his music. I am NOT discounting this angle, I am saying there currently is no hard evidence. If there was some sort of symbology found at the crime scene I'd be more interested in this line of thinking.

I do note that animal feces was found at the scene, and that IS listed in the presentation as one sign of a ritualistic crime.

 

[dangrsmind]

OT, a little levity. One morning I was driving to work listening to Nine Inch Nails and "singing" along. My singing was more like screaming and I was really getting into it. Anyway I get to work to be met by a co-worker who takes me to task for yelling at her in the car. Apparently she had been in the car in front of me and thought my "singing" was directed at her.

Back on topic, I pretty much take your stance. I don't believe that music is to blame for the murders Sam committed. It makes perfect sense that Sam was attracted to this music. It spoke to something inside of him, something that was already there; and IMO it would have come out one way or another, with or without horrorcore.

Agree obviously. The question is one of causation and I don't see a lot of hard evidence about this.

BTW back in the day I used to listen to Head Like a Hole at massive volume every day while driving to work.

I didn't kill anyone, but I did quit.

 

[KindraLore]

I think that some are misconstruing what some of our opinions are here. I personally am not saying THE MUSIC itself is what made Sam kill. However, I think that the LIFESTYLE (negative, dark and evil in nature) certainly perpetuated it.

This to me IMO is very much like a cult, with disciples and minions and apostles. It is in fact much different than 9 inch nail fans, and those that compare the two IMO are comparing apples to oranges.

I find it telling that Sam wrote and sang about the very evil thing (in detail) that he ending up doing.

 

[dangrsmind]

Interesting article. I missed the stuff about Abbas's songs that glorify suicide, Abba fan sites set up to glorify Abba's suicide themes, the couple in question socializing with Abba and posting pictures of themselves simulating suicide with Abba music that plays when you go to the site. So this example looks not so much like an analogy as it does a non sequitur.




The article you linked does not mention invasion.

Come on, it was a joke. Putin invaded Georgia remember?

Also, I'm not the one that brought up ABBA, I was merely pointing out how ridiculous the comparison was through sarcasm. I see you agree with me that this is not a particularly informative comparison. Good.

A more relevant point is that there does not appear to be any comprehensive study of murder and music. What music do murderers tend to listen to before they commit their crimes? I couldn't find any study that documented this nor have I done my own research, so any statements I could make would have to be speculation. So here I go...

Speculation: I would guess a very very small percentage of murderers are listening to horrorcore since so few people in general listen to this sort of music.

I have a friend that is a criminology professor at UCB and I will contact her Monday to see if she knows of any research like this and I will report back.

 

[Nikolai]

Back on topic, I pretty much take your stance. I don't believe that music is to blame for the murders Sam committed. It makes perfect sense that Sam was attracted to this music. It spoke to something inside of him, something that was already there; and IMO it would have come out one way or another, with or without horrorcore.

Im with you. I think someone who listens to horrorcore and actually takes it so seriously they want to kill, get the urge to kill, or do kill, already have some mental problems. If an innercity gang member who listens to gangster rap music kills someone hardly anybody, if anybody at all, points the finger at the musicians he listened to. If Emma would have met and let any other guy at that concert other than McCroskey stay at her house she would almost certainly be alive right now.