VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #2

[Heroine]

Wasn't trying to put Mormonism or you on trial. Apologies if I made you feel that way.

No problem! I accept your apologies!
Due to the fact that this thread has kinda turned into satanic research for the time being, my boyfriend heard about our discussion and thought if any of you were interested you should check out this book ,"Lords of Chaos", with all the talk about horror-core music he's surprised that noone brought up Norwegian black metal and it's ties to satanism. The book also brushes on satanism in the music industry so to speak throughout history and it has the story of the band "Mayhem".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lords_of_Chaos_%28book%29

Very interesting to say the least.

 

[tapu]

NORWEGIAN?? Like, yodelers? Yodelers and Satan? What next?:laugh:

 

[dangrsmind]

No problem! I accept your apologies!
Due to the fact that this thread has kinda turned into satanic research for the time being, my boyfriend heard about our discussion and thought if any of you were interested you should check out this book ,"Lords of Chaos", with all the talk about horror-core music he's surprised that noone brought up Norwegian black metal and it's ties to satanism. The book also brushes on satanism in the music industry so to speak throughout history and it has the story of the band "Mayhem".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lords_of_Chaos_%28book%29

Very interesting to say the least.

Cool/interesting link thanks.

I've mentioned black metal and death metal previously in a few postings. My son's ex-mormon friend is into this sort of music. You might also recall that I mentioned the Bone Gnawer video "Hammer to the Head" as an example of ultra-violent music video content that makes SKR's stuff look like a Barney episode.

Another relevant link I found today: http://www.fearnet.com/news/interviews/b17025_exclusive_interview_dani_filth_preaches.html

 

[dangrsmind]

NORWEGIAN?? Like, yodelers? Yodelers and Satan? What next?:laugh:

No, as in Teutonic mystical fascism set to music. Very loud angry music.

 

[tapu]

No, as in Teutonic mystical fascism set to music.

oh. never mind. i just wanted to make you spit again.

 

[Heroine]

Cool/interesting link thanks.

I've mentioned black metal and death metal previously in a few postings. My son's ex-mormon friend is into this sort of music. You might also recall that I mentioned the Bone Gnawer video "Hammer to the Head" as an example of ultra-violent music video content that makes SKR's stuff look like a Barney episode.

Another relevant link I found today: http://www.fearnet.com/news/interviews/b17025_exclusive_interview_dani_filth_preaches.html

Wow, what a step in the other direction for the ex-mormon!
I agree that this stuff makes SKR look like a Walt Disney production!
I have delve into the story of Mayhem and they were some pretty unusual cats, especially the second lead singer, Dead. The guy used to bury his clothes weeks before a show, so he would have an earth smell, sleep with dead animals under his bed so he could smell death as he slept, huffed a bag with a dead animal in it before he went on stage, so his voice would have the taste of death as he sang, maybe not in those exact words but similar, and he self-mutilated himself almost to the point of death at a few shows from so much blood loss. Eventually in 1991 he commited suicide.... but that's not all.
The lead guitarist after finding his body posed him for pictures and made charms out of a few pieces of his skull and gave them to people he deemed worthy. And an unconfirmed rumor has it that he even ate a piece of the guys brain.
THEN.... the guitarist was murdered by another one of the black metal guys on his record label who was famous for burning down historic Norwegian churches.
All of that is just about the one band mayhem. You should read the book, it includes much more info.
dangrsmind I sent you a PM, did you get it? It didn't seem as though it sent or something.

 

[dangrsmind]

Wow, what a step in the other direction for the ex-mormon!
I agree that this stuff makes SKR look like a Walt Disney production!
I have delve into the story of Mayhem and they were some pretty unusual cats, especially the second lead singer, Dead. The guy used to bury his clothes weeks before a show, so he would have an earth smell, sleep with dead animals under his bed so he could smell death as he slept, huffed a bag with a dead animal in it before he went on stage, so his voice would have the taste of death as he sang, maybe not in those exact words but similar, and he self-mutilated himself almost to the point of death at a few shows from so much blood loss. Eventually in 1991 he commited suicide.... but that's not all.
The lead guitarist after finding his body posed him for pictures and made charms out of a few pieces of his skull and gave them to people he deemed worthy. And an unconfirmed rumor has it that he even ate a piece of the guys brain.
THEN.... the guitarist was murdered by another one of the black metal guys on his record label who was famous for burning down historic Norwegian churches
All of that is just about the one band mayhem. You should read the book, it includes much more info.

Now that is very interesting in the context of my previous posting about the smell of death. I'll have to do some research on these guys. Thanks!

 

[asamford23]

Lords Of Chaos is an excellent and fascinating read. I have always had a fascination for the crossbreeding of music and the occult and those who use it as a gimmick as opposed to those who take it seriously. Sometimes extremely seriously. So of course that would explain why I would have so much interest in this particular case. Anyhow, those Norwegian Black Metal dudes took this stuff WAYYYY further than the SKR group could probably even conceive of, and also mixed in a bit of the ol Viking mythology as well.

Anyhow, if the Lords of Chaos book piques your interest, I suggest checking out these documentaries as well...

YouTube - NRK1 Black Metal Documentary part 1

YouTube - True Norwegian Black Metal - Part 1

 

[Kano]

For those who doubt horrorcores impact..

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091016/NEWS01/910169997/-1/news

http://www.unionleader.com/article....rticleId=b316c9f2-6508-48c7-b5d2-5c7e12671066

 

[dangrsmind]

For those who doubt horrorcores impact..

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091016/NEWS01/910169997/-1/news

http://www.unionleader.com/article....rticleId=b316c9f2-6508-48c7-b5d2-5c7e12671066

Correlation does not equal causation. And causation by the music in these cases is highly questionable. Sorry but the music does not cause crimes. The horrorcore crime wave is something new to be afraid of and it helps sell papers and gets people to tune into the 6 o'clock news, but it also happens to be a myth.

These two articles are great examples of how shoddy journalism can be used to catalyze a "witch hunt" with innocent people paying a steep price for merely being accused of listening to this music.

See also: Amazon.com: Satan's Silence: Ritual Abuse and the Making of a Modern American Witch Hunt (9780595189557): Debbie Nathan: Books

PS thinking of PiXy this morning and sending good vibes her way.

PPS Individuals interested in this area might also be interested in this book I ordered recently...

Amazon.com: Against Prediction: Profiling, Policing, and Punishing in an Actuarial Age (9780226316147): Bernard E. Harcourt: Books

 

[Kano]

Correlation does not equal causation. And causation by the music in these cases is highly questionable. Sorry but the music does not cause crimes. The horrorcore crime wave is something new to be afraid of and it helps sell papers and gets people to tune into the 6 o'clock news, but it also happens to be a myth.

These two articles are great examples of how shoddy journalism can be used to catalyze a "witch hunt" with innocent people paying a steep price for merely being accused of listening to this music.

See also: Amazon.com: Satan's Silence: Ritual Abuse and the Making of a Modern American Witch Hunt (9780595189557): Debbie Nathan: Books

PS thinking of PiXy this morning and sending good vibes her way.

PPS Individuals interested in this area might also be interested in this book I ordered recently...

Amazon.com: Against Prediction: Profiling, Policing, and Punishing in an Actuarial Age (9780226316147): Bernard E. Harcourt: Books

Apparently it not just journalists but the cops think so also.. So.... I think ill prob listen to them on the subject.

 

[dangrsmind]

Apparently it not just journalists but the cops think so also.. So.... I think ill prob listen to them on the subject.

Really? You must be reading different articles than me because those links don't mention anything about what the police think about the relationship between the music and these crimes.

From your own links:

"Experts stress that music -- no matter how violent its lyrics -- doesn't cause violent crime, but some warn that an affinity for horrorcore could be a sign that the listener is heading down a dangerous road."

"While violent music does not cause violent behavior, said Jack Levin, a criminologist at Northeastern University in Boston, violent people may be drawn to it."

 

[tapu]

PPS Individuals interested in this area might also be interested in this book I ordered recently...

Amazon.com: Against Prediction: Profiling, Policing, and Punishing in an Actuarial Age (9780226316147): Bernard E. Harcourt: Books

Hey, I'll look for that. I read a piece in a compilation, that series The Best True Crime Reporting, or somesuch, of 2008 or whatever year. It was about how unproven and even untested "profiling" is. It includes an interesting interaction between the author and one of the top FBI profilers (Ressler or Douglass, llike that). About how clueless they are that there could even be an academic or critical look taken at the "art."

 

[AndresEscobar]

however, the minds of those quick to do it will not be changed. I think we should move away from this rift between those who think horror core is a proximate cause of the murders and those who think its more complicated and move the discussion towards something more interesting.

Posting about how offensive or scary they are is giving them exactly what they want to hear. They want to be the most "wicked" or "freaky", but they're not. They could print out some of the things said about themselves on the news and internet after these murders and use them as an advertisement.

We've listened to the music. It's not good. Specifically, SKR. None of these artists are compelling, innovative or intelligent enough to be taken seriously. I love rap music. Eminem (old eminem, that is) makes these people sounds dated. He did all of this better than everyone 6 years ago. I've been here. (OT: the biggest criticism of Em's new CD was that he couldn't "shock us" anymore because we've been desensitized to his "shtick". I think that attaches to these people as well.)

Goofy overweight 30 year old comicbook characters with dyed dreads, bad facial hair, piercings, and shop at hot topic are not original. They're not intimidating or shocking. I just look at them and wonder how they'll ever get a job.

This all reminds me of the Saw movies. The first one was interesting for its shock value. Now they're rolling Saw VI out. Could you really still be offended?

The most offensive part is the lack of originality. No flow, no creativity in the lyrics, horrible rhymes.

 

[dangrsmind]

Hey, I'll look for that. I read a piece in a compilation, that series The Best True Crime Reporting, or somesuch, of 2008 or whatever year. It was about how unproven and even untested "profiling" is. It includes an interesting interaction between the author and one of the top FBI profilers (Ressler or Douglass, llike that). About how clueless they are that there could even be an academic or critical look taken at the "art."

In my most recent job, I was involved in developing automated systems for detecting identity fraud. A lot of what we did could be considered profiling in a way, i.e. we knew that fraudsters were more frequently residents of specific areas such as Pittsburgh California. Applying this knowledge has to be done with extreme care since obviously not everyone from Pittsburgh is a fraudster. Correlation does not equal causation.

The same logic applies here with respect to horrorcore listeners IMO.

I'd be interested in that article if you can find a link...

 

[AndresEscobar]

I can tell you that the reason we're not hearing any more details about the crime is because they are trying to preserve potential jury members, etc in an attempt to give the appearance of as fair of a trial as possible under the circumstances.

First thing I would do if I were McCrosky's lawyer would be request a change in venue.

 

[Kano]

Really? You must be reading different articles than me because those links don't mention anything about what the police think about the relationship between the music and these crimes.

From your own links:

"Experts stress that music -- no matter how violent its lyrics -- doesn't cause violent crime, but some warn that an affinity for horrorcore could be a sign that the listener is heading down a dangerous road."

"While violent music does not cause violent behavior, said Jack Levin, a criminologist at Northeastern University in Boston, violent people may be drawn to it."

I am pretty sure it has been brought up here already, so no.. I dont think ill search it out again..

Interesting job, i work in casinos.. facial recognition systems not dependable at all.

 

[dangrsmind]

I am pretty sure it has been brought up here already, so no.. I dont think ill search it out again..

Interesting job, i work in casinos.. facial recognition systems not dependable at all.

Did I mention FR? Hmm.

The cameras in casinos are placed too high to be effective in many cases. Also they use low resolution cameras and low quality optics to save money.

Facial recognition is essentially a frontal technology only and it works only in a small cone (approx. 15 degrees) around the nose. My team and I developed some techniques that extended this to about 35 degrees but it still is only useful from the front.

Edited to add: I could probably tell you a few more things that are wrong with your FR system, but I'll need to have an address to send my invoice to first.

 

[gxm]

(respectfully snipped)
From your own links:
…

"While violent music does not cause violent behavior, said Jack Levin, a criminologist at Northeastern University in Boston, violent people may be drawn to it."

This is what I've been saying from the start. Sam gravitated to horrorcore because of his violent nature. Horrorcore did not produce the violence; Sam did.

 

[gxm]

(respectfully snipped) Maybe horrorcore actually reduces crime. What about the declines in racism in sexism that have also gone along with your decline in "morality"? There's just no indication in my mind that our current "less moral" world is worse than the alternatives.

Sorry, I know this is way OT but what decline in sexism are you talking about???? In the last year or so things have become worse with blatant public misogyny expressed and accepted as normal. JMHO of course.

I think any nostalgia for yesterday's higher moral standards is due to rose-colored glasses. Good and evil have coexisted side by side for as long as *advertiser censored* sapiens have been around and will be with us to the end. In the information age it may seem like there's more violent crime but it's probably just because we're so much more aware of what's going on outside of our local communities.