VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #2

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claudicici said:
...I was wondering if we have anymore info about Sam's parents split....his mom seemed to be very protective and it said she wanted to be close to him that's why she worked at the school,yet she left him to live with his dad after the split....do we know why she left? Could it be because of another man?....that could have been very traumatic for sam and could be a reason he snapped when he found tm's from another guy on emma's phone...
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Not much has been said in the press. We don't really know what happened with his parents.
 
Finishing off the three part analysis of the O.T.O. interview with Shrim. Again, questions from the interviewer are in bold, Shrim's responses in italics, and my comments in normal text.

Next R.C. asks Shrim what other philosophers besides Crowley he is interested in. Shrim mentions Leilah Wendell. I had never heard of her before I read this interview, but she's an interesting character and apparently pretty well known in certain occult circles and in New Orleans where she resided until hurricane Katrina.

See http://www.westgatenecromantic.com/ to learn more about her, but be warned she's involved in necromancy and arguably necrophilia too. Some people will find this material highly disturbing.

Another book Shrim references which I had guessed about previously and mentioned in a few posts is the Demonic Bible by Tsirk Susej. Some might recall I mentioned that this book has an entire section on the use of human sacrifices in ritual practices. He states that thi sbook wa a large influence on his album Doctrines of the Damned:

"There's a ritual in the book [The Demonic Bible] that was very much like the Formula to Renounce Slave Religion and so I used that book a lot."

He also mentions Christopher Hyatt, but not any specific book. I assume he's read this however: Amazon.com: The Magic of Israel Regardie (9781935150008): Christopher S. Hyatt, Nicholas Tharcher: Books which is Hyatt's best known work I think.

R.C. asks:

"So you've got a new album coming out and you say it's very influenced by Magick?"

"What is it about and what kid of force are you trying to evoke through the album?"

"Including this one I've done four albums."

"There's my very, very first one which is entitled Premanitions, which I spelt funny and I did that on purpose."

"I took that as Pre-man vision, like an esoteric thing, like these visions that men have of 'olden times'."

Note the use of purposeful misspellings to convey his message.

Shrims states that Doctrines of the Damned is a sequel to Premanitions and that the new album will be the third in the series. Regarding Doctrines of the Damned he says,

"It set the stage for a story about an individual, basically myself, who kind of one August night decided to do a ritual to "invoke the Devil." Well he invoked the Devil and he got exactly what he wanted."

"So in exchange for giving you my power and so on and so forth, you are going to spread my doctrines of the damned. You are going to let the public and so forth know how I work, how I really work."

"There's also a struggle in the album, a personal struggle. And that's me battling with my own personal demons so to speak..."

"I'm in the presence of this almighty demon and he's holding out his left hand to me and showing me my own soul."

"And so now there's this new album I'm working on. It's called In Nomine SickTanick and I am taking it to the next level, saying that I've come to the realization that now I am an incarnation of the Devil, I've spread the Doctrines, and now it's time for the next step."

"And it's what I call the 'next step' in evolution."

"...the next step in evolution being the shadow, and I think the shadow holds a lot."

"Transcriber's note: sounds of flames--whaling noise like carpenter being eaten by walrus--nothing"

***END***
 
Kano said:
Not missing the point at all, and not saying it will make everyone go crazy.. I am saying IT IS a fact that it conditions people.. Sorry, but it is.. I dont see why you all even debating it.
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Let me make sure I'm understanding you correctly: your argument is that he was "conditioned"? What does that mean exactly? It's a fact that horrorcore "conditions" people for violence? Does that mean they're more prone to violence? Desensitized to violence? What does that mean for McCrosky? Because he listened to horrorcore, he was conditioned for violence? If not for horrorcore, he would have never killed anyone?

My argument is that while horrorcore may be a part of the "bundle of sticks" that lead McCrosky to commit these murders, it's not a compelling piece. His upbringing, adolescence and social life are more telling than what was in his CD player. (in fact, horrorcore probably is a symptom other those things).

As I alluded to before, I work in the legal field. I specialize in criminal law. While I'm a young attorney, I've still sat in on or been involved with many violent offenders. Violent music, movies and video games are usually considered a symptom of his personality rather than a cause of his behavior.

Violent behavior isn't that easy. There are many things that contribute to violent behavior. Think of it as the bundle of sticks I spoke of earlier.

If violent media were the majority contributing factor to violent behavior, the government would have a significant interest in regulating it beyond toothless "ratings" and "parental advisory stickers".

Btw, Kano, the irony is not lost on me that your handle is the name of one of the principle characters in the seminal violent video game, Mortal Kombat. I had a copy of that game for my Super Nintendo back in third grade. And look, I'm a Yuppie.
 
Because that's what we do here. I like hearing from people that don't agree with me, it challenges my tiny male brain.
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Mine too . Maybe we can form our own 'Tiny Male Brain Club'.
 
dangrsmind said:
{respectfully snipped}


"There's also a struggle in the album, a personal struggle. And that's me battling with my own personal demons so to speak..."
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good stuff, dangrsmind.

I just can't get over all these cliches. Sure, Shrimm peppers this interview with some philosphy but how many artists have said exactly the same thing in an interview about their forthcoming album? This reminds me of creative writing class where everyone spoke of thinly veiled philosophy and cliches to describe their boring poems.
 
claudicici said:
...we were not discussing whether or not the entertainment industry has an influence on people's mind...we were discussing whether or not a certain small underground record label directly and knowingly caused violence...
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Yes, this is the relevant issue. dangrsmind, others, and I are not arguing about whether that this music genre and specifically SKR and WIR influences McCrosky at all, we're arguing whether there is causation between it and the murders.
 
AndresEscobar said:
good stuff, dangrsmind.

I just can't get over all these cliches. Sure, Shrimm peppers this interview with some philosphy but how many artists have said exactly the same thing in an interview about their forthcoming album? This reminds me of creative writing class where everyone spoke of thinly veiled philosophy and cliches to describe their boring poems.
Click to expand...

Well it is an interesting question as to whether SickTanick's occult stuff is in fact a gimmick like say Alice Cooper's stuff was. I personally say no and the existence of this interview in a very obscure esoteric publication is an indication of that fact. If he was just trying to promote his next album, I'd look for an article in Fangoria not Doomsayer's Digest. He's been reviewed there previously too.
 
claudicici said:
...I was wondering if we have anymore info about Sam's parents split....his mom seemed to be very protective and it said she wanted to be close to him that's why she worked at the school,yet she left him to live with his dad after the split....do we know why she left? Could it be because of another man?....that could have been very traumatic for sam and could be a reason he snapped when he found tm's from another guy on emma's phone...
Click to expand...

The only thing I think I remember about the parents split was that it was somewhat recent if I'm not mistaken. I want to say like 5 or 6 months ago? So Sam was already 20 at that point because I also think I read somewhere that his birthday is in Dec. Anyway my point is that Sam was definitely old enough at that point to go with her if he wanted and the situation allowed him to. So unless there were something holding him back, such as the mothers new b/f, the mothers new living arrangements, or it simply could have been that he wanted to stay with his dad.
I guess the scenario is possible though.
 
Heroine said:
The only thing I think I remember about the parents split was that it was somewhat recent if I'm not mistaken. I want to say like 5 or 6 months ago? So Sam was already 20 at that point because I also think I read somewhere that his birthday is in Dec. Anyway my point is that Sam was definitely old enough at that point to go with her if he wanted and the situation allowed him to. So unless there were something holding him back, such as the mothers new b/f, the mothers new living arrangements, or it simply could have been that he wanted to stay with his dad.
I guess the scenario is possible though.
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A lot times when parents of older children divorce, the kids go through difficulties but aren't given the psychological, emotional, and family support that younger children typically are.

Not uncommon I think.
 
I was trying to see if any recent crimes in VA would somehow connect to this College girl going missing?
has there been a rape or murder in this area recently?
 
dangrsmind said:
A lot times when parents of older children divorce, the kids go through difficulties but aren't given the psychological, emotional, and family support that younger children typically are.

Not uncommon I think.
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I agree.
 
websurfer said:
I was trying to see if any recent crimes in VA would somehow connect to this College girl going missing?
has there been a rape or murder in this area recently?
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I'm not sure which college girl gone missing you speak of, but I do remember yesterday I believe it was seeing on here where 3 guys broke into a home and raped 2 girls somewhere up in the fredricksburg area if I'm not mistaken. Thats the only case I can think of that relates to rape as of late, that I've heard of anyway or that I can remember.
 
Actually the belief that music can have extreme impacts on human behavior is favored in the occult. But it also has some limited basis in fact.

Consider Chapter XXIV Book II of Aggripa's Three Books of Occult Philosophy where it is stated:

"Hence it is that Democritus and Theophrastus affirm that some disease of the body, and mind may thus be cured, or caused."

"Saxo the Grammarian, in his History of the Danes, tells of a certain musician, who boasted that he could by his music make everyone that heard it mad..."

"We read also, that they in Apulia that were touched with a kind of dangerous spider, were astonished until they heard a certain sound, at the hearing of which everyone riseth up and danceth."

At least some of these stories are based on real occurrences. Additional information of interest here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarantism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergotism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_mania


Before you laugh this off completely consider the following links as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Acoustic_Device
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-intensity_focused_ultrasound
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound

One of the things I worked on "way back when" was a 3000 watt ambisonic spatial audio system for simulating complex battlefield audio environments. We conducted some interesting experiments with this system.

Then there is this: http://www.physicsroom.org.nz/log/archive/8/feraliminal/ Probably NSFW BTW.

More on the use of sound in the occult in an upcoming posting.
 
AndresEscobar said:
His upbringing, adolescence and social life are more telling than what was in his CD player.
Click to expand...

BUT, Sam's social life WAS Horrorcore. Remember, he had no social life outside of sitting in his room, listening to and making music, and attending SKR events.
 
wadahoot said:
BUT, Sam's social life WAS Horrorcore. Remember, he had no social life outside of sitting in his room, listening to and making music, and attending SKR events.
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I'm refering more to the social strata of horrorcore rather than the concept of horrorcore itself. Others have speculated about his status in the community: that he wasn't well-received as a rapper (to be kind), he wasn't "signed" to SKR (which seems a lot more popular than WIR), that after Emma saw that he was merely a hanger-on to the group she might have been less interested in him.

His sitting in his room listening and making music aren't part of the horrorcore 'social life". However, the internet communities were. And these can be pretty hierarchical. He may have been low dog on the totem pole and couldn't break through to the upper echelon of the community. Maybe he started "rapping" in an attempt to gain more clout. Maybe his rejection there was a motivating factor. He became a pariah of pariahs . . .

Obviously, that's just speculation, but certainly allows for discussion better than "horrorcore is bad music and made him do bad things."

Understand: you're charging him with the requisite intent to kill and murder four people. He must therefore be cognizant enough of his crimes enough to know the consequence of his actions. He can't simply be a zombie to horrorcore.
 
Heroine said:
The only thing I think I remember about the parents split was that it was somewhat recent if I'm not mistaken. I want to say like 5 or 6 months ago? So Sam was already 20 at that point because I also think I read somewhere that his birthday is in Dec. Anyway my point is that Sam was definitely old enough at that point to go with her if he wanted and the situation allowed him to. So unless there were something holding him back, such as the mothers new b/f, the mothers new living arrangements, or it simply could have been that he wanted to stay with his dad.
I guess the scenario is possible though.
Click to expand...
I read his sisters myspace page before she blocked it and she was upset with her mom because she had been cheating on her father.
 
wow....that makes so much sense...I'm sorry but ever since I read this thread I am so emotional about it.It's just so sad....and I immedeately felt close to the horrorcore kids cos they remind me so much of who i used to be....I went through some stuff in my pre-teens and early teens and without metal and the metal community i know I wouldn't have made it.Razakel said Emma told her she was better than her therapist and I totally believe that.I also think sam found a sanctuary in horrorcore and put a lot of hope in finally meeting emma and the disappointment made him snap.He threw away his life...
dangrsmind,i love all your posts,they are very interesting,but i highly doubt a majority of the horrorcore kids is into the occult on a deeper level....I wore upside down crosses and all that stuff back then without knowing much ,it's just a security blanket ,it's dealing with teenage angst and finding a group that doesn't judge you ,it's about acceptance and facing fears...horror is everywhere,once you realize the world isn't a pretty place it's very helpful to face those fears and turn it around and make darkness your armor...
it also infuriates me when people blame emma's parents,they seemed to be supportive and accepting....i would love to find out why emma had such problems with her mom and why she was seeing a therapist....
 
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