VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #4

[AndresEscobar]

Thats absolutely setting the table for an insanity defense, make no mistake about it. If they plead insanity this will be a VERY interesting case!

That article was how I found out about the case. I've been viewing it from that scope this whole time.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I agree. I'd definitely buy your book.
Heck, this thread is better than a lot of the books I've read lately!

Well writing a book is a huge undertaking. I am in the process of pitching a story once the trial is over, to possibly Rolling Stone magazine as I do have contacts with them and can get a foot in the door. As for a book, hope that article can lead to a more detailed account and turn in to an actual book.

Obviously were I to accomplish such anyone who contributed to this thread would be acknowledged in the book and would get free copies.

 

[Wes]

What would you be more apt to read and enjoy reading:

1) A non-fictional account of this story that only deals with the known facts of the case after the trial, the story of Sam and the victims lives, how they grew up and came to meet, their lifestyles and the horrorcore community they were involved in etc.

This. I enjoy fiction too, but if it's going to be based on a real case, then I'd prefer a true non-fictional account.

 

[4Kat]

Is it possible the young girls were passed out from being high or drunk and never knew what hit them? This would explain the lack of defensive wounds, lack of alarm and ease that this crime was committed.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Is it possible the young girls were passed out from being high or drunk and never knew what hit them? This would explain the lack of defensive wounds, lack of alarm and ease that this crime was committed.

Mel seemed to drink alot and we know Emma smoked a lot of weed so thats something to think about for sure.

 

[asamford23]

Great point. I've done the same thing myself. Rummaging through the nightstand in the middle of the night frantically looking for pen and paper is one of my least favorite things.

Okay, so how many of us are musicians here?

I am!!

www.electricminnowmusic.com
www.myspace.com/telestrion

 

[dnrslucky1]

I would only read a non fictional book, I never read anything else. Non fictional is just way more interesting.

 

[asamford23]

yeah, definitely non-fiction. True Crime + Satanism + Music = win. This story has plenty of twists and turns as it stands, and instinct tells me we'll be in for a few more before it's all said and done.

 

[LoveVA]

I bet he and Emma worked out the High School ID thing, he still had it from when he was in school and Emma said bring it because she didnt tell mom and dad he was 20. Maybe?

I guess these are possible things, but I know alot of people, guys especially, just never clean out their wallets! My brother still has his high school ID in his wallet and he's 23

 

[wadahoot]

Debra Kelley is the only one we see in glasses in photos.

Mark has on glasses in photos, too.

 

[ericclimbs]

I have an important question for everyone.

What would you be more apt to read and enjoy reading:

1) A non-fictional account of this story that only deals with the known facts of the case after the trial, the story of Sam and the victims lives, how they grew up and came to meet, their lifestyles and the horrorcore community they were involved in etc.

2) A fictional novel based on this case with all of the facts included but perhaps some added twists to make the story more complete and entertaining?

For me option one for sure. I read a lot, always have. And while I occasionally enjoy a fiction piece 90% of what read these days is non-fiction. As we all know true life is just as bizarre, weird, and fantastic as almost anything I've read in the fiction genre.

ETA: Now that I'm caught up on this thread is seems we all have a penchant for option 1. However, as coastal said, I'd also buy your book be it fiction or nonfiction.

 

[wadahoot]

My speculation is against the maul as the first round weapon is based on anyone's ability to swing one in rapid fire sequence.

Pretty sure you're a gamer - first round weapon! How many hit points would you give a maul v ball-peen hammer :angel:

 

[hank]

http://www.wtvr.com/news/wtvr-farmville-murder-suspect-attorney-talks,0,5327401.story

"Lets wait until you actually learn more about him before you make any judgments"

seems to me his lawyer would have said "...learn more about the case" or similar if they were going for a "someone else did it" scenario.

 

[wadahoot]

I plan to attend with my daughter...questions anyone?

How wonderful ... thanks much!

I would like to know what Rimer thinks of things like Dungeons & Dragons. I know it sounds like a silly question, but back in the '70s when D&D started, many, many people thought it was evil, scary and horrible. I think hearing where he's coming from on gaming (whether it be online, PC games, or on-paper games like D&D) will let us know where he's coming from.

I'd also be interested in his percieved connections between occult and gangs. Lots of people tie them together because of the 'weird symbols' (tagging) and the odd writing (bubble-letters), when I think it's safe to say 99% if gangs have NO tie to the occult.

Thanks, Gurl!

 

[ziggy]

haha, hope i don't seem argumentative. You'll be like this soon.

Yeah, I think it's up to the judge whether you can introduce the rap stuff. If the defense doesn't want it in, they're going to argue its irrelevant and its purpose is to unduly influence the jury. If they do want it in, It might be part of their trial strategy.

The more I think about this case the more I think it's either absolutely premeditated or a total insanity case. You really can't reconcile it with a middle ground. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Either he was insane or he wasn't, and both of those conclusions are equally possible under the facts we have. The violence of this case is so striking that I don't buy that he could anywhere in the middle.

And I'll concede, an insanity defense is rare, but this may be such a rare case. I mean, if Sam was insane, or is insane, the insanity defense should be applicable. Right?

On the subject of juries: Sam might waive his right to go before a jury. He might have a bench trial.

About burden of proof: by preponderance of the evidence is a lower standard of proof than the prosecution has. Preponderance of the evidence is 51% to 49%. Beyond a reasonably doubt is like 99.999%.

Ha, no I give you consent to treat me diffently and I will take the hits and keep sparring; it's a good learning experience.

I hear ya. I just think SOME of Sam's writings are going to come in. Maybe the judge will be super careful and figure the prosecution has such a strong case he doesn't want to risk it being more prejudicial than probative (is that correct?) and deny its entrance. Won't it be a good one to follow? I actually learn stuff about procedure from these real life cases.

As far as the defense, we've got SODDI or insanity. Circumstantial evidence is going to weigh heavily on Sam did it, so his attorney better pull out a plea and save the boy's life. The fact that he told the cab driver he waited until his girlfriend fell asleep and then left shows he knows right from wrong - he didn't tell the cab driver about the murder part AND I would like to submit that I think the "wrongfulness" of horrorcore is the allure. The wrongfulness of all the crap they rap about is what makes them love it so and so he knew it was wrong, but he didn't care.

 

[blouAngel]

Pretty sure you're a gamer - first round weapon! How many hit points would you give a maul v ball-peen hammer :angel:

Sorry, I haven't played a video game in at least 25 years. I do whack away at things often however. I've never clubbed anything to death, unless fly swatting counts. Groundhogs in my garden have tempted me though.

 

[ziggy]

dangrsmind: are you thinking in terms of MPD as the demonic possession defense? I'd like to find some case where this actually worked.

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/eyesopen.html

"...Others found alters that were cold, belligerent, sullen, and 'scary to interview,' and experienced therapists warn that psychiatrists must be wary and can expect violence on the part of the patient when such alters are 'out'. In additions, multiples also experience persecutors who inflict punishment, often in the form of self-mutilation or suicide. The latter is sometimes a criminal, and murderous, evil personality. In other words, the entities appearing in such a person may be kindly, dangerous, or even demonic." [X:NS:HADPE:80f]

"But the contention that the crime was committed while the offender was possessed by a demon keeps cropping up as a defense in criminal court cases. And the literature contains records of a number of famous killers who maintained until the day of their execution that they were innocent of the crimes they had been convicted of and that they had absolutely no memory of having committed any of it. Were the hosts in these instances in fact innocent, and were they killed by the state for the crimes of their alters?"

 

[dangrsmind]

dangrsmind: are you thinking in terms of MPD as the demonic possession defense? I'd like to find some case where this actually worked.

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/eyesopen.html

"...Others found alters that were cold, belligerent, sullen, and 'scary to interview,' and experienced therapists warn that psychiatrists must be wary and can expect violence on the part of the patient when such alters are 'out'. In additions, multiples also experience persecutors who inflict punishment, often in the form of self-mutilation or suicide. The latter is sometimes a criminal, and murderous, evil personality. In other words, the entities appearing in such a person may be kindly, dangerous, or even demonic." [X:NS:HADPE:80f]

"But the contention that the crime was committed while the offender was possessed by a demon keeps cropping up as a defense in criminal court cases. And the literature contains records of a number of famous killers who maintained until the day of their execution that they were innocent of the crimes they had been convicted of and that they had absolutely no memory of having committed any of it. Were the hosts in these instances in fact innocent, and were they killed by the state for the crimes of their alters?"

Oh hah hah, I didn't say it was going to work. But yeah, he doesn't seem to have many other options. Disassociative disorder (I think the new name for MPD?) could be why no one thinks he's the sort of guy that would do something like this.

See also the famous Demon Murder Trial http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_Murder_Trial


The demonic possession defense failed in that case FWIW.

 

[claudicici]

This. I enjoy fiction too, but if it's going to be based on a real case, then I'd prefer a true non-fictional account.

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....i'd prefer non-fiction also but with some deeper elements,like really getting into sam's head and also it's a great piece on where society stands today...like what are these kids lacking ...disposable teens...

 

[claudicici]

....I've been trying to find that last myspage message emma send to pixy,since she never replied to the answer maybe that actually is really important for the timeline....and if i remember well it wasn't send like in the middle of the night where people would be asleep....I'm thinking maybe sam was in emma's room and mel also trying to reconnect with emma so he's asking her what are you doing,who are you talking to....and emma is annoyed and she's like'god i'm talking to pixy and sam's like"well,tell her i said hi" and emma puts it in caps and is really ticked off now ,shuts off her myspace and she's yelling at sam...stop asking me what i'm doing you're invading my privacy,get the *advertiser censored*** out of my room,sam ....sam leaves the room and finds emma's phone in the livng room/kitchen,rage is already boiling inside of him and whatever he reads now is pushing him over the edge......?