VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #4

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PAXIMUS said:
Thats an interesting thought. Maybe Sam wrote some songs after the murders, I am sure the lyrics were flowing once he found out what maul+head equaled.:loser:
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The average knucklehead could throw something of Sam's caliber together in 15 minutes, so I'm sure he could use all the extra "inspiration."

Fighting the urge to write a really bad rap verse.....:innocent:
 
AndresEscobar said:
I'm going to take issue with a few of your conclusions here.

First, how is Sam's music to his case as child *advertiser censored* is to Michael Jacksons? Sam's music is legal. Child *advertiser censored* is illegal. Creating violent media is not necessarily correlative to murder. Child *advertiser censored* is correlative to child molestation. Also, if the evidence will unduly influence the jury and is not necessarily relevant to the case (as you say, the jury will despise him), the evidence might not even be admissible.

Also, why is there "no insanity defense that will hold up"? What are you basing this on? Even some of the early indications from Sam's lawyer seems to imply a insanity defense strategy "He doesn't know realize the scope of what he's done yet" was the quote, or similar.
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Ahh read carefully - borderline child *advertiser censored* as in the "art" books depicting youngters in the buff. Some say that is just legal child *advertiser censored*. These books are not illegal - the naked boy stuff. And it has been used to insinuate an interest in young naked boys which allows a jury to INFER what it means. Leave it to the trier of fact, in other words. So if a court can say that legal books depicting young nude boys might be correlative to young boy molestation then I think I can make the same argument about Sam's legal artform.

His lawyer may indicate anything he wants to, but an insanity defense is EXTREMELY difficult to maeuver and juries, frankly, don't by it. The defense would have to prove beyond a perponderance of the evidence that Sam had no idea what he was doing was wrong! REally?

Feel free to now rip it to shreds :)
 
absynthminded1 said:
He could have also used them to jot down song ideas, before they could escape him. I've done this many times... write down the ideas on whatever I can find.
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Great point. I've done the same thing myself. Rummaging through the nightstand in the middle of the night frantically looking for pen and paper is one of my least favorite things.

Okay, so how many of us are musicians here?
 
absynthminded1 said:
The average knucklehead could throw something of Sam's caliber together in 15 minutes, so I'm sure he could use all the extra "inspiration."

Fighting the urge to write a really bad rap verse.....:innocent:
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Oh, I hear you man.
 
ziggy said:
Ahh read carefully - borderline child *advertiser censored* as in the "art" books depicting youngters in the buff. Some say that is just legal child *advertiser censored*. These books are not illegal - the naked boy stuff. And it has been used to insinuate an interest in young naked boys which allows a jury to INFER what it means. Leave it to the trier of fact, in other words. So if a court can say that legal books depicting young nude boys might be correlative to young boy molestation then I think I can make the same argument about Sam's legal artform.

His lawyer may indicate anything he wants to, but an insanity defense is EXTREMELY difficult to maeuver and juries, frankly, don't by it. The defense would have to prove beyond a perponderance of the evidence that Sam had no idea what he was doing was wrong! REally?

Feel free to now rip it to shreds :)
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haha, hope i don't seem argumentative. You'll be like this soon.

Yeah, I think it's up to the judge whether you can introduce the rap stuff. If the defense doesn't want it in, they're going to argue its irrelevant and its purpose is to unduly influence the jury. If they do want it in, It might be part of their trial strategy.

The more I think about this case the more I think it's either absolutely premeditated or a total insanity case. You really can't reconcile it with a middle ground. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Either he was insane or he wasn't, and both of those conclusions are equally possible under the facts we have. The violence of this case is so striking that I don't buy that he could anywhere in the middle.

And I'll concede, an insanity defense is rare, but this may be such a rare case. I mean, if Sam was insane, or is insane, the insanity defense should be applicable. Right?

On the subject of juries: Sam might waive his right to go before a jury. He might have a bench trial.

About burden of proof: by preponderance of the evidence is a lower standard of proof than the prosecution has. Preponderance of the evidence is 51% to 49%. Beyond a reasonably doubt is like 99.999%.
 
Can we get a roundup of statements by Sam's attorney so far? If anyone has any statements especially the one Andreas just noted about Sam not knowing the SCOPE of what he had done, please post it with link. I want to look more closely at the words his attorney is using right now to see if we can conclude they may be looking at insanity defense.
 
PAXIMUS said:
Can we get a roundup of statements by Sam's attorney so far? If anyone has any statements especially the one Andreas just noted about Sam not knowing the SCOPE of what he had done, please post it with link. I want to look more closely at the words his attorney is using right now to see if we can conclude they may be looking at insanity defense.
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don't quote me on that quote, but it was to that effect.
 
gxm said:
Great point. I've done the same thing myself. Rummaging through the nightstand in the middle of the night frantically looking for pen and paper is one of my least favorite things.

Okay, so how many of us are musicians here?
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I dabble on the guitar and harmonica but I am a hack, however, as a writer I am ALWAYS waking up in the middle of the night with new ideas so I keep a pad and paper next to the bed at all times, in fact I would say some of my best ideas have come to me in the middle of the night. I strongly suggest to everyone I know to keep pen and pad next to bed, a lot of people are surprised at the ideas they are able to come up with by making a habit of this practice.
 
PAXIMUS said:
I have an important question for everyone.

What would you be more apt to read and enjoy reading:

1) A non-fictional account of this story that only deals with the known facts of the case after the trial, the story of Sam and the victims lives, how they grew up and came to meet, their lifestyles and the horrorcore community they were involved in etc.

2) A fictional novel based on this case with all of the facts included but perhaps some added twists to make the story more complete and entertaining?
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I'd rather read #1, unless there's a third choice: the facts of the case as well as facts about the occult practices that informed the culture Sam, his mentors, and his young victims participated in. Without those facts, as horrifying as it is, it's just another story of man's inhumanity to man.
 
AndresEscobar said:
don't quote me on that quote, but it was to that effect.
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Yea I gathered as much, I think we should take a close look at every word out of his attorney's mouth right now so if you run in to any more quotes please post them.
 
coastal said:
I'd rather read #1, unless there's a third choice: the facts of the case as well as facts about the occult practices that informed the culture Sam, his mentors, and his young victims participated in. Without those facts, as horrifying as it is, it's just another story of man's inhumanity to man.
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The horrorcore/occult and all the characters that go along with it would definitely be a part of anything that I would write and would further be the only reason I would do anything fictional about it, just to further add some more interesting horrorcore and occult twists to the story, but if done right it really doesnt need any more twists as they are all there already.
 
PAXIMUS said:
The horrorcore/occult and all the characters that go along with it would definitely be a part of anything that I would write and would further be the only reason I would do anything fictional about it, just to further add some more interesting horrorcore and occult twists to the story, but if done right it really doesnt need any more twists as they are all there already.
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I agree. I'd definitely buy your book.
Heck, this thread is better than a lot of the books I've read lately!
 
dangrsmind said:
This one makes me wonder if he isn't sticking to that mysterious intruder in the basement story...
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Yea, that quote is basically saying he has no idea what happened, someone told him and he is shock after hearing it. Thats what I took from that statement.

I have a feeling this may get interesting before its over.
 
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