VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #5

[blouAngel]

Some further questions for the locals....

Any similar sites around Farmville?

"In an ongoing inventory of Virginia cave resources, 23 burial caves have been field documented by the Marginella Burial Cave Project (MBCP). All but one site have been vandalized to varying degrees. In addition to the burial resource inventory, goals of the MBCP include measures for site protection and education. Problems have been encountered by the MBCP in attaining these goals. The sensitive and sacred nature of these cave resources, however, warrant limiting site specific discussions to protected
sites. One burial cave in Montgomery County and two in Lee County are protected by gates because of recent disturbances. Adams Cave (44MY482) served as a party cave, but was not known as a burial site until a student brought a human mandible and two long bone fragments to a college professor and an investigation ensued."

From http://www.caves.org/pub/journal/PDF/V59/V59N3-Hubbard.pdf

More here: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3904/is_200110/ai_n8954822/

Take a look at a map of Virginia and you'll see a line of mountains running South Wet to North East. Farmville is to the East of that in the piedmont and really the lower piedmont. Caves are found to the West on the other side of those mountains in the Shenandoah and New River Valleys.

Indian (or Native American if we want to go that route) artifacts are commonly found all over Virginia. When I lived in Dinwiddie County, which isn't far from Prince Edward, I could find pottery shards and projectile points after it rained. Farmers often find the same when they plow and I've seen huge collections that have been found that way. Those points have a wide range of ages, but from the number of points I've seen myself, there were lots of people around in the past. Presumably, they died and were buried somewhere.

The area around Farmville has been farmed (fancy that) for a long time and there is virtually nowhere in Virginia that hasn't been cleared of trees at some point. If you look at satellite imagery of the area around Poorhouse Rd. for example, it is easy to see evidence of clear cutting and replanting almost everywhere. It's essentially all farmland. The trees just don't get harvested as often as some other crops. Plowing and erosion caused by farming have over the years almost completely obliterated any burial mounds or other signs of pre-European settlement other than the artifacts that I mentioned above. Curious rich white men with shovels did some in too. If you look at where Poorhouse Road is and how it follows the contours (look at a topo map) just above moist fields and along a creek, you'll see the areas that native villages would have been in. It's no accident that the roads are where they are and some but certainly not all are ancient.

Thomas Jefferson excavated a mound on the Rivanna in the 1700's and wrote a bit about it. Here's a start if you're interested in following up on the burial mound angle. If I got you any closer, I feel like I'd spoil your fun. The Indians that Jefferson noticed near Shadwell (second link) would have been traveling along the river.

http://www.locohistory.org/blog/albemarle/2007/02/07/monasukapanough/
http://www.virginia.edu/insideuva/textonlyarchive/93-09-24/5.txt

For what it's worth, I have my doubts about whether native Americans were hip to Pazuzu or had anything what so ever to do with the murders in Farmville, but what the hay, January is still a long way off.

 

[Heroine]

...I agree...and if I was Razakel I'd feel the same way....if some strangers were discussing me to the point of obsession just because I know someone that did something I'd be ticked off too,but I'd still wished they'd come and talk to us ....

Honestly, I'm not sure if she's ticked off or happy about the attention we're giving her. She thanks us over and over.

 

[claudicici]

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/state_regional/article/FARM251_20090924-232001/295416/

I havn't seen this before...

 

[wadahoot]

2. do you think Sam was abused when he was young, when i read that mother was over protective of him when he was in elementary school, even to the point of volunteering in the same school, brought up red flags, as to why was she so overprotective?
...

Hummm, gotta disagree on your hypothisis here maunsapt! A parent that is involved in their child's life is not necessarily OVER-protective. I've seen many that are ... like when my son was in 6th grade, we went on a field trip and the over-protective moms made their kid sit with them on the school bus and stand with them at the destination and eat with them at the picnic tables. My son and I worked out long ago how I could stay active in his life and give him his space. On that same field trip, I wouldn't dream of riding the same bus as he and his buddies, we stood on opposite sides of the room during the demonstration (although we did exchange a sly 'I love you' in sign-language across the room!), and I sat no where near him at lunch.

Being involved just doesn't have to equal over-protective. I volunteered at his schools from K-12, as did my Mom, his Gram. We made it possible for him to have school dances that other parents wouldn't plan (and we stay in the cafeteria to serve pizza, not watch him dance), work in the school library to make it work for all the kids, etc. He understood that we were helping not only him, but all the kids and appreciated it ... BUT we always kept an open line of communication, and if he was uncomfortable with something one of us was getting involved with, we stepped back and found another job that needed done.

FYI!

 

[claudicici]

....I just think if she was so protective and even sarah said he was a momma's boy...yet momma completely ignored sarah and yelled at her all the time....what was she protecting him from?....why was there a need to be over protective?....and then why did she leave ?....I know he was techmically an adult but I think he still needed her but she left...

 

[claudicici]

...I'm trying to find the link to the article that would answer your first question maunsapt,sam's mom did come out on a radio interview in support of sam...there she also said ,he was not bullied in school and things like that....

 

[maunsapt]

Hummm, gotta disagree on your hypothisis here maunsapt! A parent that is involved in their child's life is not necessarily OVER-protective. I've seen many that are ... like when my son was in 6th grade, we went on a field trip and the over-protective moms made their kid sit with them on the school bus and stand with them at the destination and eat with them at the picnic tables. My son and I worked out long ago how I could stay active in his life and give him his space. On that same field trip, I wouldn't dream of riding the same bus as he and his buddies, we stood on opposite sides of the room during the demonstration (although we did exchange a sly 'I love you' in sign-language across the room!), and I sat no where near him at lunch.

Being involved just doesn't have to equal over-protective. I volunteered at his schools from K-12, as did my Mom, his Gram. We made it possible for him to have school dances that other parents wouldn't plan (and we stay in the cafeteria to serve pizza, not watch him dance), work in the school library to make it work for all the kids, etc. He understood that we were helping not only him, but all the kids and appreciated it ... BUT we always kept an open line of communication, and if he was uncomfortable with something one of us was getting involved with, we stepped back and found another job that needed done.

FYI!

Yes, I know this, I have been to my own kid's schools and classrooms, volunteering and all. For some reason I thought I had read that Sam's mother was overprotective to the point of having to work in his school as a teacher's aid to be more closer to him. In the realm of trying to find out the why she felt the need to do so, in relevance to his psychological/emotional needs growing up, is what made me wonder if there was some kind of abuse going on. And then again, nothing like that may not have happened.
But, yes, alot of parents will stick around their child's school to volunteer and such.
I am in agreement with what you are saying Wadahoot. Thank you for your input.

 

[maunsapt]

why was the mom more protective over sam than his sister (from what has mentioned in the news articles?). why did she ignore (if she was doing this) the sister? this is one of the reasons why i am concerned. there may not be anything wrong too, just wondering.

 

[claudicici]

yeah i'm wondering about that too,I'm wondering also why sam "hated" music when he was a kid.....

 

[claudicici]

a couple of questions:

1. has Sam's mother ever voiced her concerns since he was jailed?
2. do you think Sam was abused when he was young, when i read that mother was over protective of him when he was in elementary school, even to the point of volunteering in the same school, brought up red flags, as to why was she so overprotective?
3. do you think Sam was fulfilling a role of a ritualistic sacrifice, thus being very attuned to what he was doing, performing the grotesque murders, hanging around (as far as that's what we know) after the bodies were killed, and once the role was accomplished, he called his friend , i believe Siinyster (sp) to let him know he did the killing. and his calm nature about him since those things were done?
5. or had a mixture of drug-induced and psychosis into committing the crime?
6. or a combination of drugs, dysfunctional life, delving into demonism, being spurned by a girl, seething/built up rage that might have helped him do those things?


ok, so these are more than a couple of questions, but i have been thinking about what or why a person, especially a young man of his age, to even do such a heinous act...
i am being more inclined to agree with DM that he was demon possessed... but i have thought of the other aspects as well, the upbringing, and such....

....i'd say no to 4. and 5.,yes to question 6

 

[tapu]

Honestly, I'm not sure if she's ticked off or happy about the attention we're giving her. She thanks us over and over.

Yes, Razakel seems to be squealing with delight over the attention. Who can blame her? For many people today (the television masses) brushes with fame can involve negative attention as easily as positive attention (defined as recognition for something valuable that one achieves, that is)--especially in the current pop culture/media atmosphere. Purely by happenstance, Sick and Raz are momentarily in the spotlight in connection with a brutal set of murders. That's as good as earning real acclaim to them, as they are products of said pop culture/media. They cannot discern the difference between that and legitimately "becoming famous." If just about any kind of fame or attention is valued, regardless of its intrinsic worth, then you can see how going from a concert attended by 80 unemployed teenagers to finding a group of intellectuals dissecting their every move on an internet site would feel positive. They can't tell a difference between being admired and being observed like bugs under a microscope.

(No offense, Raz. It's an academic discussion, not a personal critique.)

 

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

ITA, this case/thread has become beyond cumbersome. No offense to the "in-depth" SKR posters- they are really, really good at digging up info.- but some of us just want to focus on the details/news of the CRIME and not every minute facet of these SKR (I hate even 'naming' them, as they apparently feel soooo superior to us "pathetic online wannabe detectives," lol! I doubt most of them even know how to properly use a TELEPHONE DIRECTORY!! They're just jealous of OUR capability to see thru their trite, pathetic, and been-done-before methods of juvenile "rebellion!!! And most of them still live with mommy and daddy, I'll bet.:innocent ANYWAY!! sorry for the rambling- my point is to agree that we could use MORE than one thread... jmo, moo, etc.

Inside of this cumbersome thread was a link to all court docs. no time to look for it right now, but I have printed my copies.

 

[Vabrownid1]

LOL, what a way to start the day... I get back on to post #207 working may way down the page and ericclimbs pic scared the HELL out of me!

 

[AndresEscobar]

Maybe in federal court things aren't settled over breakfast, but I'm sure things like this happen in county courts. No doubt about it whatsoever!

I was taking issue with the flippancy of the comment. Sure, tons of plea agreements and settlements are worked out of court. You'd be surprised (or maybe not) how much work I get done during cigarette breaks (I don't even smoke) and lunch recesses.

 

[PAXIMUS]

All we really need is a general discussion thread where we can all hang out and talk about the case and then a thread for data and documents to use as a dumping thread for all important reference information.

Someone make it happen.

 

[tapu]

I'd make it happen, but I think there's a special way to set up a (sticky?) thread like that; and regardless, I don't know how to get all the links.

Paging LaWanda....

 

[dangrsmind]

Take a look at a map of Virginia and you'll see a line of mountains running South Wet to North East. Farmville is to the East of that in the piedmont and really the lower piedmont. Caves are found to the West on the other side of those mountains in the Shenandoah and New River Valleys.

Indian (or Native American if we want to go that route) artifacts are commonly found all over Virginia. When I lived in Dinwiddie County, which isn't far from Prince Edward, I could find pottery shards and projectile points after it rained. Farmers often find the same when they plow and I've seen huge collections that have been found that way. Those points have a wide range of ages, but from the number of points I've seen myself, there were lots of people around in the past. Presumably, they died and were buried somewhere.

The area around Farmville has been farmed (fancy that) for a long time and there is virtually nowhere in Virginia that hasn't been cleared of trees at some point. If you look at satellite imagery of the area around Poorhouse Rd. for example, it is easy to see evidence of clear cutting and replanting almost everywhere. It's essentially all farmland. The trees just don't get harvested as often as some other crops. Plowing and erosion caused by farming have over the years almost completely obliterated any burial mounds or other signs of pre-European settlement other than the artifacts that I mentioned above. Curious rich white men with shovels did some in too. If you look at where Poorhouse Road is and how it follows the contours (look at a topo map) just above moist fields and along a creek, you'll see the areas that native villages would have been in. It's no accident that the roads are where they are and some but certainly not all are ancient.

Thomas Jefferson excavated a mound on the Rivanna in the 1700's and wrote a bit about it. Here's a start if you're interested in following up on the burial mound angle. If I got you any closer, I feel like I'd spoil your fun. The Indians that Jefferson noticed near Shadwell (second link) would have been traveling along the river.

http://www.locohistory.org/blog/albemarle/2007/02/07/monasukapanough/
http://www.virginia.edu/insideuva/textonlyarchive/93-09-24/5.txt

For what it's worth, I have my doubts about whether native Americans were hip to Pazuzu or had anything what so ever to do with the murders in Farmville, but what the hay, January is still a long way off.

Thanks, this is useful information. Yes, I am aware that this entire area had been clear cut and farmed, and it is very visible from the aerial photography of the area.

Native Americans knew about a lot of things that people don't give them credit for. A lot of this knowledge has been lost of course. So I don't completely count them out on knowing about the force the Sumerians called Pazuzu. BTW, in Sumerian gematria Pazuzu=666 FWIW.

As far as burial mounds, this comes from Peter Levenda. I'm just following up on his angle here. I don't know that the Farmville Wal-mart is built on an Indian burial site, although a number of them interestingly are.

However, there is some information missing from local accounts of history and so forth especially with respect to Longwood University. I've already mentioned the connections to Joan of Arc and Gilles de Rais, but I am surprised that no one has mentioned the famous talk given every Halloween by an anthropology professor Dr. Jordan at Longwood. Emma's mother was a member of the same department where professor Jordan teaches.

What about the residence hall that is built on top of an old unmarked graveyard? Or the cursed bell in the library (See http://www.thespook.org/news.php?item.8.2)?

What about those tunnels under the campus that are now sealed?

You see there seems to be a lot that the locals have forgotten or don't want to talk about here.

 

[AndresEscobar]

I'd like to take this opportunity to formally announce the formation of Cereal Eatin' Records, leaders in Breakfastcore. I, 'dres, am the king of the McMuffin S*!t.

 

[dangrsmind]

Yes, Razakel seems to be squealing with delight over the attention. Who can blame her? For many people today (the television masses) brushes with fame can involve negative attention as easily as positive attention (defined as recognition for something valuable that one achieves, that is)--especially in the current pop culture/media atmosphere. Purely by happenstance, Sick and Raz are momentarily in the spotlight in connection with a brutal set of murders. That's as good as earning real acclaim to them, as they are products of said pop culture/media. They cannot discern the difference between that and legitimately "becoming famous." If just about any kind of fame or attention is valued, regardless of its intrinsic worth, then you can see how going from a concert attended by 80 unemployed teenagers to finding a group of intellectuals dissecting their every move on an internet site would feel positive. They can't tell a difference between being admired and being observed like bugs under a microscope.

(No offense, Raz. It's an academic discussion, not a personal critique.)

Maybe that's because there is no difference anymore. The celebrity machine ran off the rails decades ago, and as a result fame is no longer correlated with talent or achievement.

What was Kato Kaelin famous for besides sleeping on OJ's couch and needing a haircut really badly?

 

[dangrsmind]

Have you seen this?

http://www.insan0.com/SykoSam.html

yes, but it was worth a re-read. Warning very disturbing images on this site!