VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #7

[dangrsmind]

I'm gonna throw something out here. I think those WBC subhumans have a right to their protests because, as Andres pointed out, free speech is a double edge sword. Now inciting violence would be, I would think, disturbing the peace and a criminal offense.
However, what I would like to toss in for discussion, is the idea of longer sentences for so-called hate crimes. I personally think this is a very questionable idea. A crime is a crime and the penalty should be the same. If Race A guy beats the living hell out of Race B guy just because he hates those Bs does he deserve a longer sentence? I know this could be an inflammatory circumstance in regards to sentencing but isn't such consideration already built into the system without having to have a specific law passed calling it a "hate" crime?
I am currently opposed to the idea but welcome all comments to the contrary, especially from our lawyers hanging out here.

Regarding the WBC protests in San Francisco, I didn't see anything other than having a bit more difficulty parking. I was in the area later in the afternoon on purpose so everything might have been over by then. I also approached the school from a different area than were I understood the protests were happening. I didn't hear anything or see anyone protesting or counter protesting.

They are still here in SF today and I hope to continue avoiding them...

 

[dangrsmind]

Speaking of hate crimes and hate speech...

It seems Sam's track Burning Churches has been over looked.

(Chorus)
Burn it to the ground, burn it to the ground
Let's burn all the churches to the ground (x2)
Burn it to the ground burn it all burn it now
Watch you all ****ing die as ashes rain from the sky

(Verse 1)
I laugh at you go door-to-door push religion
Down peoples throats reign down our decision
You wanna choose to believe in a god I never will I always knew that he was a fraud
You come to my door you won't be alive anymore just another body laying on my floor
I'm never gonna change it's my life you see I praise the devil even when I sleep
666 carved into my hands and my feet I curbstomp you right into the concrete
Lets burn every church straight to the ground
No evidence left behind only bodies found

(Chorus)

(Verse 2)
My mind is full of these sick and twisted games
Such an amazing sight to see it up in flames
Drench the church in gasoline then throw a match and you'll know what I mean
I don't know how many that I said it but I'll say it again BURN THE CHURCHES BURN THE CHURCHES
Don't forget to also burn the Christians
Do you really care if they're dead or god missin'?
**** religion, **** god and **** Jesus too
If a fire fitted you, good it was long overdue
Tie it tight or watch you all burn away
Listen to the hook its the only thing I really need to say.

 

[tapu]

Speaking of hate crimes and hate speech...

It seems Sam's track Burning Churches has been over looked.

(Chorus)
Burn it to the ground, burn it to the ground
Let's burn all the churches to the ground (x2)
Burn it to the ground burn it all burn it now
Watch you all ****ing die as ashes rain from the sky

(Verse 1)
I laugh at you go door-to-door push religion
Down peoples throats reign down our decision
You wanna choose to believe in a god I never will I always knew that he was a fraud
You come to my door you won't be alive anymore just another body laying on my floor
I'm never gonna change it's my life you see I praise the devil even when I sleep
666 carved into my hands and my feet I curbstomp you right into the concrete
Lets burn every church straight to the ground
No evidence left behind only bodies found

(Chorus)

(Verse 2)
My mind is full of these sick and twisted games
Such an amazing sight to see it up in flames
Drench the church in gasoline then throw a match and you'll know what I mean
I don't know how many that I said it but I'll say it again BURN THE CHURCHES BURN THE CHURCHES
Don't forget to also burn the Christians
Do you really care if they're dead or god missin'?
**** religion, **** god and **** Jesus too
If a fire fitted you, good it was long overdue
Tie it tight or watch you all burn away
Listen to the hook its the only thing I really need to say.

This is just a question:

If Debra Kelley or Mark Neiderbrock had searched "Sam McCroskey" on the internet, would they have found this kind of thing?

 

[dangrsmind]

This is just a question:

If Debra Kelley or Mark Neiderbrock had searched "Sam McCroskey" on the internet, would they have found this kind of thing?

No I don't think so. The lyrics weren't on the web until recently and well after the murders. However, they could have searched Emma's MySpace friends to find him and his music I believe. Then they'd have to listen to the songs...

 

[tapu]

No I don't think so. The lyrics weren't on the web until recently and well after the murders. However, they could have searched Emma's MySpace friends to find him and his music I believe. Then they'd have to listen to the songs...

Was Emma's MySpace public, or do you mean they could have if they got her permission?

 

[dangrsmind]

Was Emma's MySpace public, or do you mean they could have if they got her permission?

I believe it was public at the time of the murders, which is how people here were able to read some of the messages between Emma and Sam originally. I think most or all of the Unholy Apostles have public profiles BTW. Sort of hard to use MySpace for promotion otherwise...

Even when a profile isn't public, you can often find a person's postings, comments, and messages on other people's profiles. It takes a bit of work and I don't know if we can assume Emma's parents were savvy enough to look for this sort of thing.

 

[tapu]

I believe it was public at the time of the murders, which is how people here were able to read some of the messages between Emma and Sam originally. I think most or all of the Unholy Apostles have public profiles BTW. Sort of hard to use MySpace for promotion otherwise...

Even when a profile isn't public, you can often find a person's postings, comments, and messages on other people's profiles. It takes a bit of work and I don't know if we can assume Emma's parents were savvy enough to look for this sort of thing.

Please. They had to have been savvy enough to look into her Myspace given that it was public.

This kind of rocks me. Although... I guess they could very well have looked into it and judged it not problematic enough to put a stop to Sam's visit.

Wow, though. Depressing, most of all.

I think a lot of parents think that they're "talking to" their kids, "monitoring" their kids, like it says to do in all the public service announcements, but that they are clueless as to what that really entails. It's just like people saying, about sex or drugs, "Oh, my daughter knows she can talk to me." Unless you've been having specific on-going conversations about sex and/or drugs, nitty-gritty at the kid's level, you're dreamin'.

 

[DoctorZ]

Was Emma's MySpace public, or do you mean they could have if they got her permission?

My sister is 18 now, when she was 16 my mom had no clue she even had a MySpace page. She also didn't have to explain how she knew all of these people from other states though.

 

[DoctorZ]

Please. They had to have been savvy enough to look into her Myspace given that it was public.

This kind of rocks me. Although... I guess they could very well have looked into it and judged it not problematic enough to put a stop to Sam's visit.

Wow, though. Depressing, most of all.

I think a lot of parents think that they're "talking to" their kids, "monitoring" their kids, like it says to do in all the public service announcements, but that they are clueless as to what that really entails. It's just like people saying, about sex or drugs, "Oh, my daughter knows she can talk to me." Unless you've been having specific on-going conversations about sex and/or drugs, nitty-gritty at the kid's level, you're dreamin'.

I also think a lot of parents think like that. Not only did my mom not have a clue about myspace, she also didn't think my sister was having sex until she was pregnant.

I am much older than my sister and was raised by my grandparents, so I don't know how involved she is as a parent.

 

[tapu]

My sister is 18 now, when she was 16 my mom had no clue she even had a MySpace page. She also didn't have to explain how she knew all of these people from other states though.

Of the male gender. And coming to spend a week with her.

 

[tapu]

My sister is 18 now, when she was 16 my mom had no clue she even had a MySpace page. She also didn't have to explain how she knew all of these people from other states though.

Of the male gender. And coming to spend a week with her.

 

[tapu]

My sister is 18 now, when she was 16 my mom had no clue she even had a MySpace page. She also didn't have to explain how she knew all of these people from other states though.

Of the male gender. And coming to spend a week with her.

 

[dangrsmind]

Please. They had to have been savvy enough to look into her Myspace given that it was public.

This kind of rocks me. Although... I guess they could very well have looked into it and judged it not problematic enough to put a stop to Sam's visit.

Wow, though. Depressing, most of all.

I think a lot of parents think that they're "talking to" their kids, "monitoring" their kids, like it says to do in all the public service announcements, but that they are clueless as to what that really entails. It's just like people saying, about sex or drugs, "Oh, my daughter knows she can talk to me." Unless you've been having specific on-going conversations about sex and/or drugs, nitty-gritty at the kid's level, you're dreamin'.

Sorry, I just meant they might not be savvy enough to dig deeper IF her profile wasn't public.

Even for a non-public profile one can often infer much of a person's friends list by doing some inverse searches. In other words, even if you hide your profile, if your friends don't hide theirs I can search their friends list for you. Following this approach I gradually reconstruct your friends list. And BTW this is all an automated process. There's a bit more to it than this, but you get the general idea I hope.

In this case I believe the profile was public, but not under her true name. They might or might not have known about it. I realize that I've been assuming they did know about it, but we don't really have any evidence either way.

 

[dangrsmind]

Of the male gender. And coming to spend a week with her.

Could you say that again? I'm having a hard time hearing you.

 

[DoctorZ]

Sorry, I just meant they might not be savvy enough to dig deeper IF her profile wasn't public.

Even for a non-public profile one can often infer much of a person's friends list by doing some inverse searches. In other words, even if you hide your profile, if your friends don't hide theirs I can search their friends list for you. Following this approach I gradually reconstruct your friends list. And BTW this is all an automated process. There's a bit more to it than this, but you get the general idea I hope.

In this case I believe the profile was public, but not under her true name. They might or might not have known about it. I realize that I've been assuming they did know about it, but we don't really have any evidence either way.

I didn't see any evidence of a second profile, but could Emma have had two? Sam had several. Could there have been an Emma profile and another Ragdoll profile?

 

[Sally Trueheart]

I thought his stay was 13- 14 days, not a week?

 

[ericclimbs]

double post. See below.

 

[ericclimbs]

I am totally for it and I'm glad they differentiate hate crimes from other crimes because they are so different.A hate crime does not result in one victim ,it is carried out against a whole group of people.If you kill someone let's say who is gay that by itself is not a hate crime but if you kill him/her because she is gay you are sending the message that it did not matter who you killed you just did it because of their race/sexuality/religion...so you're really not commiting a crime against one person you're commiting a crime against a whole group of people...that's how I see it and understand it

But isn't any crime, all crimes no matter what, committed against all of us, no matter what race, religion, or sexual orientation, as a community, as a united human tribe? I think it is our duty to be morally outraged at all crimes, not just ones we would tend to associate more or less with depending on our race/sexuality/religion.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Hate crimes, thought crimes etc, its blurring the line too much for me. I am against authority as much as possible, the less big brother the better in my opinion as I do not like giving the state any more power than it already has.

You cant get in people's heads and determine why they do things, its all guesswork and I dont trust the state, prosecutors and DAs enough to give them another rabbit to pull out of their hats.

I UNDERSTAND why someone would support hate crimes and there is nobody who understands hatred more than my Jewish ancestors but I just cant support it because of a healthy distrust for the state.

 

[PAXIMUS]

But isn't any crime, all crimes no matter what, committed against all of us, no matter what race, religion, or sexual orientation, as a community, as a united human tribe? I think it is our duty to be morally outraged at all crimes, not just ones we would tend to associate more or less with depending on our race/sexuality/religion.

Yes, its the Orwellian police state that wants to make us think otherwise.