VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #8

[DoctorZ]

I guess it's important to note that the type of pants Sam wore had lots of pockets and pocket space, so it wouldn't be as cumbersome to carry a couple sets of keys in the pockets.

I wore pants like that in high school (I claim temporary insanity) and could fit a two liter bottle in the pockets of some of my pants.

 

[dangrsmind]

I wore pants like that in high school (I claim temporary insanity) and could fit a two liter bottle in the pockets of some of my pants.

Come on, a 2 liter? The guy wasn't wearing phat pants...

 

[DoctorZ]

I thought I saw him wearing larger pants in another photo, I'll do some searching.

They didn't have to be all that big to have huge pockets.

 

[DoctorZ]

I guess his pants aren't all that big.

I had pants with back pockets that went most of the way down the leg. You could fit all kinds of stuff in there.

Wasn't there a reference to Sam weighing 200 pounds? He doesn't look that big there.

Found it, his sister said it: http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/horrorcore-rap-drew-together-143611.html

 

[dangrsmind]

I guess his pants aren't all that big.

I had pants with back pockets that went most of the way down the leg. You could fit all kinds of stuff in there.

Wasn't there a reference to Sam weighing 200 pounds? He doesn't look that big there.

Found it, his sister said it: http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/horrorcore-rap-drew-together-143611.html

Hunh, I agree he doesn't look that big there. His pants are plenty big enough to carry some keys in BTW, it was the two liter thing I was making fun of.
:innocent:

PS I know some people that wear phat pants from time to time. FWIW.

 

[DoctorZ]

Hunh, I agree he doesn't look that big there. His pants are plenty big enough to carry some keys in BTW, it was the two liter thing I was making fun of.
:innocent:

PS I know some people that wear phat pants from time to time. FWIW.

The quality of the belt was the key to whether a two liter in the pocket was dangerous or not. I think I put something big and heavy in my pocket once trying to be funny and fell down the stairs. A semi-related story involving a belt with metal studs and the Smithsonian having metal detectors leads me to wonder:

Was Sam waiting in the baggage claim area of the airport because he was afraid of the security check? I've never tried to show up several days before my flight, maybe he couldn't even get in.

 

[ziggy]

No his pants aren't very big and the kid packed light. For the entire trip he either only brought one other pair of black sweat pants besides the ones he was wearing, or he left clothing behind at the Kelly house.

No way could I fit 2 weeks worth of stuff for a trip into that little black gym bag, lol.

There was a set of house keys found on Sam. Wonder if those were his from CA or Mark's?

 

[dangrsmind]

The quality of the belt was the key to whether a two liter in the pocket was dangerous or not. I think I put something big and heavy in my pocket once trying to be funny and fell down the stairs. A semi-related story involving a belt with metal studs and the Smithsonian having metal detectors leads me to wonder:

Was Sam waiting in the baggage claim area of the airport because he was afraid of the security check? I've never tried to show up several days before my flight, maybe he couldn't even get in.

The one time I have been in that situation I went to the ticket counter and was given standby status on an earlier flight. Then I went through security and waited. It took three tries to get on a plane, but I eventually did. They sent me right through security too since the first stand by opportunity was already boarding.

 

[AndresEscobar]

No his pants aren't very big and the kid packed light. For the entire trip he either only brought one other pair of black sweat pants besides the ones he was wearing, or he left clothing behind at the Kelly house.

No way could I fit 2 weeks worth of stuff for a trip into that little black gym bag, lol.

There was a set of house keys found on Sam. Wonder if those were his from CA or Mark's?

Well, the car was towed. I'm presuming he left Mark's keys with the car.

 

[ziggy]

Well, the car was towed. I'm presuming he left Mark's keys with the car.

Ahh yes.

Where are all the cell phones?

On Sam: one Motorola cell phone (but no charger). The charger is listed for the camera, but not the cell phone.

At the house: one Motorola cell phone and one Verizon LG cell. (no chargers listed either)

None in the car.

Edited to add: 1 concert ticket on Sam - 1 concert ticket with red stain in Mark's car. Didn't they take the van to the concert? I just find it odd that a concert ticket (since Mark and Debra did not attend) was left in Mark's car.

Obviously there is a lot of evidence that was collected that isn't for release yet. I'm sure the women had purses with phones and Mark's was possibly on his person.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Well, the car was towed. I'm presuming he left Mark's keys with the car.

You are presuming? :waitasec:

 

[AndresEscobar]

Ahh yes.

Where are all the cell phones?

On Sam: one Motorola cell phone (but no charger). The charger is listed for the camera, but not the cell phone.

At the house: one Motorola cell phone and one Verizon LG cell. (no chargers listed either)

None in the car.

Edited to add: 1 concert ticket on Sam - 1 concert ticket with red stain in Mark's car. Didn't they take the van to the concert? I just find it odd that a concert ticket (since Mark and Debra did not attend) was left in Mark's car.

Obviously there is a lot of evidence that was collected that isn't for release yet. I'm sure the women had purses with phones and Mark's was possibly on his person.

Cell phones aren't vital piece of evidence unless there is something physically on the cell phone. Everything they need can be obtained from the cell phone companies records. What it looks like to me is that they took Sam's, Mel's, and Emma's cell phone as there may be markings, fingerprints, and perhaps pictures on the phones. No real need to take Mark's or Dabra's. I also don't really see why they'd need to take chargers as evidence, unless they had blood on them or were somehow implicated in the killings.

 

[AndresEscobar]

You are presuming? :waitasec:

I'm hypothesizing. I'm making an educated guess.

 

[Sally Trueheart]

Mark on ticket was red, not brown: possibly a cancellation stamp? Seems that would fit with their aesthetic.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I'm hypothesizing. I'm making an educated guess.

I meant that jokingly by the way - probably didn't translate well.

 

[AndresEscobar]

I meant that jokingly by the way - probably didn't translate well.

My first day of law school I used the word "assume" in a class. The professor spent 5 minutes tearing into me for using the word "assume". Since then, I try not to use that word.

 

[AndresEscobar]

Mark on ticket was red, not brown: possibly a cancellation stamp? Seems that would fit with their aesthetic.

Good point. Dried blood on cardboard would probably be a rust color rather than a red color.

 

[DoctorZ]

Good point. Dried blood on cardboard would probably be a rust color rather than a red color.

Didn't they use fake blood at their shows quite often? That would stay red.

 

[dangrsmind]

Didn't they use fake blood at their shows quite often? That would stay red.

I think that some of the audience members use fake blood in their costumes. SickTanick has pictures of real head wounds on himself and a small number of fans. But I don't know of any of the performers using fake blood at STFW except in their costumes. Certainly not in the way or on the scale that bands like Gwar use it...

The band's characteristic costumes are generally made of foam latex, styrofoam, and hardened rubber. The costumes cover very little, with the rest of their bodies accentuated with makeup. They further their production in concert by spraying their audiences with fluids. Most of the fluids are made of water and powdered food coloring which, for the most part, flakes off or washes out easily. The thicker fluids are made from a clear seaweed extract called carrageenan which is also used in ice cream and milkshakes.[4] Gwar does not use syrups or stage blood because they dry solid and can damage the band's costumes.[5] In concert, Gwar has been known occasionally to perform their encore without costumes.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwar

(recalling that one of the members of Gwar attended Longwood University briefly)

A lot of the SKR merchandise has fake blood printing on it. FWIW.

 

[Heroine]

Your posting reminds me of something I had been wondering about a few weeks back. It seems that one of the mysteries of problems with the "crime of passion" theory is the killing of Dr. Kelly and Mr. Niederbrock. It occurs to me that we don't actually know if Dr. Kelly actually let Sam stay at the house on their return to Virginia. If Emma and Melanie were not looking forward to riding back with Sam from STFW, imagine how they felt knowing he going to be staying at Emma's house for another week.

WARNING TOTAL SPECULATION AHEAD

One of the things that has been bugging me about the basic scenario as we have discussed it is that the weapons are tools that were probably stored in a shed outside the house. We don't know this for sure of course, but if true he had to exit the house to locate and retrieve the weapons and then quietly re-enter the house.

Here's an alternative: perhaps the girls lobbied mom to kick him out and maybe she did it. Perhaps this was discussed on the way back in the car with dad present to give it a little extra force for Sam. This theory would explain the murders of Dr. Kelly and Emma's dad IMO.

Now he's stuck in Farmville with nowhere to stay and not enough money to get a hotel room or get home. He can't call his parents to get more money. Perhaps he lurks around the yard and house at night entering the shed and finding the weapons there. Possibly he also had Emma's keys somehow which explains why they were found outside the house...

Anyway, as I said, all of this is pure speculation. But if true, it does help to explain the violent murders of the parents in addition to the girls.

I agree that there is something odd about where the keys were found. Although I don't know for a fact that the keys were Emma's, I still speculate that they were hers. Why they were outside is a very good question.
I think you could be right about him being kicked out though. When I start to think about that I also think that maybe Sam started to show his true colors towards her parents at the show, not to mention the fact that while at the concert he was with another girl. If that were the case with me and my parents I can see where my mom would kick him out esp. if I were only 16.
Another thing I thought about was the fact that there are only 2 females living in that house, so why on earth would those kind of tools be in the shed? I know it's not entirely impossible and they could have belonged to Emma's dad from when her parents were together, but I don't know a single female my size that can really use either of those tools properly anyway.
Well at least the wood maul.
I also took the time to find some emoticons, I love those little things...haha!
:takeabow::smiley4:
This one in particular :bananalama: should just stand for WTF from now on.