VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #11

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Again not to be snarky, but how can you see the attraction? As much as I've requested it and my fellow sleuthers have tried to help, I've not been successful locating the initial contact between the two.

Post two has all the videos. I believe it's the jewelry store (and someone will correct me if I'm wrong!), but it's been posted many times. Id hate for you have to watch them all, but it's there. And I said in a post before some people see it and some don't.


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Unfortunately, most sex trafficking has very little to do with sexual compulsion and is primarily driven by money making schemes. Traffickers look for women that won't be missed, that will give up on escaping, and that will not cause problems to their overall financial scheme.

A girl that attends one of the top colleges in the country filled with loads of affluent students going missing is one of the worst things that could happen to their "business" and I guarantee you that these horrid "pimps" everywhere in the general area are seeing their "business" suffer because of the heat. No one but someone with the strongest and sickest perversion is going to risk going to see an illegal sex trafficker in the area right now.
 
Remember Joran Van der Sloot telling LE how he saw Natalee going over to the black man outside the hotel where he left her...

Yes, but Chief Longo said eyewitnesses saw them at Tempo after he started walking with her. And eyewitnesses saw them leave together.
 
NO. That is the McGrady's video. Hannah is not even at the mall yet. JM is not in this video at all.

It's three of the videos combined into one. 1st mcgradys. Second shell. Third "the arm" (I don't personally see him putting his arms in her).

Edit: or maybe 4. Either way, it's all the clips, that the public has.
 
Suri Crowe ‏@KSuri

Chief Longo says investigators went back to Jesse Matthew's apt to look for "clothing" #HannahGraham with today's search warrant

Why now? Why today? He isn't home. Anyone could have brought him his clothes last night so he can do his tour of all corners of the nation and beyond. Makes no sense. I'm curious to hear more so we can put the pieces together on this one
 
Neither do I, OldSteve--and if you watch the video of this apparently middle-aged white man ducking into a doorway and watching Hannah surreptitiously, letting her pass right by his hiding spot unaware of him lurking there, and then moments later, him falling in behind her and following her at a distance--you would, I think, find it chillingly creepy. If you haven't seen the surveillance video of this man (known for convenience sake as WG--for White Guy--because we don't know his name: LE apparently doesn't want to ruin HIS life by publicizing his name and personal details) I recommend you do so. I think you won't be able to put it out of your mind. I honestly don't see how anyone can.

People seem to give WG a pass from suspicion because he actually called the tip line later to say he had been following Hannah that night because he wanted to "help her," as she seemed to be in some distress. Really? Really? And then he said he had stopped following her because he'd seen her with a black man whose head was shaved, and whom she seemed to know. Really? How convenient. It must be the black guy, then. At some point after leaving his message on the tip line, he then called or went to the PD to tell his story again, this time not anonymously, and as I understand it by then the CC videos were either being released or described for the public, only now the bald black man is a black man with voluminous dreadlocks.

I can't seem to put the memory of this lurking middle-aged white man out of my head--and if you watch the video and see him ducking out of sight into a doorway and watching her covertly, letting her pass without asking her if she needs help, and then surreptitiously following behind her at a safe distance, I don't think you'll forget it easily either. Does this look like a good Samaritan or a stalker? I'll leave that to you.

I have never liked the "white man" part of this. I know plenty of "white men" that age and they would not be at the Pedestrian Downtown Mall, alone, "following" a young underage teen. No WAY.
 
Neither do I, OldSteve--and if you watch the video of this apparently middle-aged white man ducking into a doorway and watching Hannah surreptitiously, letting her pass right by his hiding spot unaware of him lurking there, and then moments later, him falling in behind her and following her at a distance--you would, I think, find it chillingly creepy. If you haven't seen the surveillance video of this man (known for convenience sake as WG--for White Guy--because we don't know his name: LE apparently doesn't want to ruin HIS life by publicizing his name and personal details) I recommend you do so. I think you won't be able to put it out of your mind. I honestly don't see how anyone can.

People seem to give WG a pass from suspicion because he actually called the tip line later to say he had been following Hannah that night because he wanted to "help her," as she seemed to be in some distress. Really? Really? And then he said he had stopped following her because he'd seen her with a black man whose head was shaved, and whom she seemed to know. Really? How convenient. It must be the black guy, then. At some point after leaving his message on the tip line, he then called or went to the PD to tell his story again, this time not anonymously, and as I understand it by then the CC videos were either being released or described for the public, only now the bald black man is a black man with voluminous dreadlocks.

I can't seem to put the memory of this lurking middle-aged white man out of my head--and if you watch the video and see him ducking out of sight into a doorway and watching her covertly, letting her pass without asking her if she needs help, and then surreptitiously following behind her at a safe distance, I don't think you'll forget it easily either. Does this look like a good Samaritan or a stalker? I'll leave that to you.

Well said! They never did find the guy with head shaved clean, did they? When I heard that, I thought the way Joran van der Sloot successfully steered LE away from himself toward the black guy outside the hotel where he said he left Natalee off.
 
NO. That is the McGrady's video. Hannah is not even at the mall yet. JM is not in this video at all.

This is all the video surveillance. Are you saying that the clip at the end is still at McGrady's. That her running by the Shell Station is at McGrady's? That JM crossing the plaza is at McGrady's? Or you don't beleive that is JM in Sal's video? All of those clips are in that youtube link which is why I posted the exact time in the video when it shows them at Tuels. Not sure why you are using a definitive NO when you didn't even watch the youtube video.
 
Yet they are the ones who put themselves under this media microscope.

I respectfully disagree. The case received widespread media coverage from the beginning. They're also committed to finding and convicting whoever might be responsible for her disappearance. They're not going to compromise any case they're building.
 
Hannah's posture when walking shows she is tired. Look at in Sal's video her upper body is leaning a little forward with her back slightly hunched. I walked an hour today in my neighborhood and towards the end my lower back started getting sore so I started walking like her to take pressure off my lower back. In McGrady's video what many people think is her playing with her waistband is in fact her grabbing/rubbing her lower back because it is sore form all the walking.
 
Maybe other people from the mall have also said they saw JM hug, or put his around Hannah. I don't see how they got that from any video we have seen, when they could barely see JM until he was pointed out (maybe by WS, lol).

I wish I could understand the "bald, little goatee " description from last week and why LE issued it. I can't really buy this did this as a way to "throw off JM" especially when they were dying to speak to whoever it was WG saw. Good thing people weren't going after men who resembled that description. I am concerned what may happen when JM is found...hope he is not shot by LE, i.e if he appears to resist.

Jmo
 
I wouldn't worry too much about JM's SS# getting leaked. Ain't nobody wanting to jack his ID right now... just saying....
 
I don't know if they knew each other, but a few years back , I worked as a waitress in a bar. After we closed, I would go places with co workers, and let me say, men can be BOLD!! I actually had my rear end grabbed at a waffle house, while paying for my food ... And that's just one example of total strangers putting their hands on me in completely public areas! Of course, I was sober and reacted but have seen many intoxicated women go along with it and enjoy the attention ... Just my opinion
I punched a guy in a waffle house for the same thing!

Did any one else hear on Nancy or jane that Hannah was at another bar with students from her school ,chatting before she passed the shell ,or did I misunderstand what he said Maybe it was on Jane?
 
Let me know when you receive your Nobel Prize then. What you are suggesting would overturn a large amount of what is known about how biology works. It would have large implications in medicine, evolutionary biology, genetic studies, etc.

makista is entitled to her/his opinion. Please be more respectful.
 
That's kind of a big deal, what you just posted. Was that really an alcove the WG stepped into or is it the entry way to Rapure? Locals may know...And what awful reporting. A big guy? That's the best he could do?

Regarding this article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...2b1a46-428c-11e4-9a15-137aa0153527_story.html
"Cecilia Rodi, owner of Rapture restaurant and bar, said that a bouncer working the doors that night saw Graham walking down the mall. Rodi said that the bouncer later saw Graham speaking with a large man; Matthew is 6-foot-2 and weighs 270 pounds."

It would depend on how much "later" he saw her. He would have been able to see her walk from Rapture to Tuel's, so "later" could be seconds. Or not. So the question is, how much later is later.

Rapture sits between Sal's and Tuel's. If he were watching, he'd have seen JM approach Hannah, and WG behind them.
 
I have never liked the "white man" part of this. I know plenty of "white men" that age and they would not be at the Pedestrian Downtown Mall, alone, "following" a young underage teen. No WAY.

It was just a term used to easily differentiate the two men. We have no name.
 
This is all the video surveillance. Are you saying that the clip at the end is still at McGrady's. That her running by the Shell Station is at McGrady's? That JM crossing the plaza is at McGrady's? Or you don't beleive that is JM in Sal's video? All of those clips are in that youtube link which is why I posted the exact time in the video when it shows them at Tuels. Not sure why you are using a definitive NO when you didn't even watch the youtube video.

She was at McGrady's at 12:45am. Then at Shell at 11:55am. Then at Sal's at 1:06. Then Tuel Jewelers at 1:08
 
Nowhere. I'm sorry but there is no way anyone can definitively say they see his arm around her waist unless you have Superman's eyes.

The statement came from the witness and LE has taken the witness statement to be true and credible so when they mention the arm around the waist it is not becuase they saw it in the video. Originally they thought JM was a refelection, so to go from reflection to being able to see an arm around the waist would be a HUGE leap.


In this day and age I'd think equipment would be/is available to dramatically improve the images. Hope they're using all technology available.
 
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