VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #11

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From what I understand(I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong) is that JM told LE(not a formal interview ) that he had a couple of drinks with HG they left together and parted ways. Now if LE finds hard evidence( her clothing, her blood in the car or apt., etc) that disproves what JM said then obviously they will issue a warrant for his arrest on her disappearance. We don't know if he retained an attorney but if he had we would,imo, have heard about it by now. He doesn't have the resources to disappear so finding him when charged shouldn't be a major problem,imo. I think we will be seeing/hearing from him within a day or two, because at that point he'll be charged or be brought in on the warrants.

Ok, assuming he told LE what he told Grandma, allegedly. But we do not know if he did. LE acts like he said nothing of value. Which could just mean they did not believe whatever he may have said.
 
It is not bashing to point out the glaring truth that they messed up big time. I respect LE. I also respect justice and fairness and I expect LE to uphold the same values.

Thank you for this. Such a big difference.
 
It is a matter of opinion. I do not think that questioning LE automatically equals disrespect. JM should be presumed innocent, instead LE has presumed him guilty and taken actions that have convinced the public (at least on this board) of his guilt as well. They put a video of him out, his name out, searched and seized his car, searched his apartment, followed him with a close obvious tail everywhere he went, put wanted posters out for reckless driving, and have been very vocal about their belief in his guilt, including doing the rounds of talk shows - and then act surprised he hasn't come to talk to them to prove his innocence. Maybe they have the smoking gun and that is why they are so confident in being vocal and public about JM being guilty of Hannah's disappearance and once the forensics are back today, they will charge him with crimes related to Hannah. If they are that sure of his guilt, why not officially call him a suspect and why didn't they arrest him between Thursday and Sunday?

No. LE absolutely should not presume him to be innocent. That presumption has to do with who bears the burden to prove a case in court. That's it.
 
From what I understand(I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong) is that JM told LE(not a formal interview ) that he had a couple of drinks with HG they left together and parted ways. Now if LE finds hard evidence( her clothing, her blood in the car or apt., etc) that disproves what JM said then obviously they will issue a warrant for his arrest on her disappearance. We don't know if he retained an attorney but if he had we would,imo, have heard about it by now. He doesn't have the resources to disappear so finding him when charged shouldn't be a major problem,imo. I think we will be seeing/hearing from him within a day or two, because at that point he'll be charged or be brought in on the warrants.

LE has never said that JM told them "that he had a couple of drinks with HG they left togehter and parted ways." that I have seen. Some of this seems to be from what JM's grandmother told the Daily News that JM told her.

What is found in the car, the forensics on it is what is going to drive the next steps IMO unless some big new development arises.
 
Re: Football head injuries and aggressive behavior. This is actually well established in the medical/psychiatric community and it is indeed quite sad. There are numerous studies done on the mild brain injuries highschool athletes sustain and their long-term effects. It is potentially interesting in light of his road rage incident and immediate regret.

For example:

Results: At any given follow-up period, 25% of the participants were classified as aggressive. Aggression, where present, was consistently associated with depression, concurrent traumatic complaints, younger age at injury, and low satisfaction with life rather than with injury, demographic, or premorbid characteristics. Depression was the factor that was most significantly associated with aggressive behavior at all times postinjury, followed by a younger age at the time of injury.

http://journals.lww.com/headtraumarehab/Abstract/2006/01000/Aggressive_Behavior_Following_Traumatic_Brain.5.aspx

more reading:

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1007051

http://iospress.metapress.com/content/aqq15cxx83fp7mgj/
 
There was a direct quotes from LE saying that they found clothes they were seeking in the apt. Whether those were JM's clothes he was wearing in the video or not was not specified.

How specific are warrants? If they had a warrant to search his home would that mean they could take anything in his home or did it have to relate to the investigation somehow?

I wonder if they came back for underwear. Or would that be something they would take initially?
 
On descriptions: Many years ago, I was leaving work, and was stuck in traffic. I saw this man and woman walking on the sidewalk beside me. She was carrying a comforter in the plastic bag they come in. This man starts pounding her on the head and arm. She was just taking it and walking on. I pulled in the next business I came to and yelled at this man to stop it! They both kept walking and he didn't hit her again, but was yelling at her. I called 911 and when they asked for a description, I had to pause. He was a black male, she was a black female. He was very short and thin, she was short and heavy. She was carrying a comforter. I couldn't even remember what color she had on, or anything else. I was focused on his actions and her welfare. I guess I could have guessed. This was a minute after it happened, and they had gone on around the corner. So I understand it.

Exactly. And exactly why eye witness descriptions are least reliable. I can understand WG's confusion especially in an area where many folk are milling about.
 
The soil samples will totally indicate where he went.

what is the point of LE giving a cryptic message about tunnels?

If they know she is in a tunnel, that will be easy to find. Much easier than somewhere out in the country.

I asked earlier, but got no response. How easy is it to dig around there?

Where I live, the soil is clay, filled with rocks.

Digging by trees gives you tons of roots.

He is strong, but he would need a lot of time and things such as a good shovel and an something to cut through roots if he was going to dig at all.

In the case of little Colton is Texas, the monsters moved him from the first spot to one they covered with sheetrock.

The question is if he planned this and had a location in mind ( for whenever the opportunity arose) or was it spontaneous.

I do not think he could haul her off into the woods too far. She was very tall and thin.

The reason I don't want it to be him is that monsters should be easily recognized. He worked. He had lots of normal looking friends and people said what a great guy he is.

So far he does not scream monster although I do wonder what his early years were like
 
I saw him described on FB by 2 people as a gentle giant.

Basically how Justin Ross Harris was repeatedly described by his friends. A gentle man. A great, devoted dad.
 
How about someone tweeting Laura French and ask HER what she meant by her cryptic tweets????>? Wouldn't that settle it? JMO
 
Ok, I have to nitpick a bit, regarding police presuming someone guilty.

Isn't that what they do?

It is what they do when they have evidence to support guilt. They shouldn't just presume guilt without evidence. That has led to innocent people injured by police, innocent people killed by police, innocent people arrested, innocent people jailed. They may have the evidence that he is guilty and just haven't yet released it.
 
:truce:

My issue with the negativity toward LE here is that none of us know what they know yet! After that time, maybe I will look at it differently. But for now, I personally can't make an assessment with the little information that we have.
 
I know eye witnesses are often inaccurate
I personally would not remember what the cashier looked like a few days ago
I would not take notice

But, WG did take notice of hannah and according to him, felt she was distressed
So its seems to me he may have paid closer attention to the man that put his arm around her
I don't know, I guess its just that the description is so off


But isn't only the hair report changed. Before WG reported seeing Two BGs and now LE say he only saw one. Humm.
 
Basically how Justin Ross Harris was repeatedly described by his friends. A gentle man. A great, devoted dad.

Ted Bundy was a nice guy too ... Well, other than when he was busy murdering ... :facepalm:

ETA chipmunk, I have NO idea how your quote popped up ... Lol nap time for me!
 
Hopefully this will be helpful :)

Transcription of an interview with a Charlottesville reporter, Hawes Spencer, regarding his conversation with a lawyer (Eric Wilke) who was the victim of a 2009 assault involving Jesse Matthew.

[There's this brief mention here at the start that's unrelated to the assault story and does NOT involve the same person]

(Spencer) I talked to a guy who knew Jesse Matthew from high school. The friend described him as a kind of gentle giant and expressed doubt that Matthew could be involved in anything something nefarious.

***

(Spencer) Then, later this afternoon, I knocked on the door of a local lawyer named Eric Wilke because I had found his name in the Charlottesville arrest records as the alleged victim in an assault case back in 2009
(Host) JM was the accused in that case. And what actually happened?​

(Spencer) Well, Wilke says he was driving over to his girl friend’s house at about 10 pm on a week night. When a gold, minivan taxi suddenly cut in front of him. He says he honked his horn and the taxi stopped, blocking him in.

The driver emerged and angrily asked why he had honked. Wilke said, “Because you cut me off.” The driver refused to budge and a sort off stand of ensued. Where Wilke said he said, “Well, I’m calling the police.” And he began to dial, only to find his iPhone snatched out of his hands.

So Wilke says he got out of his vehicle and attempted to try to retrieve his cell phone, when he was hit in the face with an unexpected punch.
(Host) But then something surprising happened?​

(Spencer) Wilke says that his assailant became contrite and drove him to the ER for medical treatment. All the while expressing regret and offering to make things right.
(Host) Did he make any excuses for his behaviour?​

(Spencer) He did. He said that he had been stiffed by a couple of fares earlier in the evening and was feeling frustrated. But Wilke thought there was something wrong with the young man. That he might be suffering from depression And Wilke even asserted that he seemed he could be potentially suicidal
(Host) So was this crime ever reported?​

(Spencer) Yes. Wilke says he reported it, only in order to make sure he got compensated for his medical bills. As it played out, an Assistant Commonwealth’s Attorney eventually called Wilke and said, “Do you mind if we drop these charges?” And Wilke says as long as he got paid, that had been his main concern. And in fact he did get paid. And the records show that the charges were dropped.
(Host) So how did Wilke react when you asked him about the incident?​

(Spencer) He asked, “Well, why do you want to know about that?” And I said, well because people are interested in anything having to do with Jesse Matthew. He said, “Oh my God. Is that the guy? I didn’t even remember his name!”

For Wilke, this whole thing is so far in the past. And he actually even declined to provide a recorded interview. He didn’t mind telling me about since it’s a matter of public record, with the arrest and everything, but he said that he didn’t really want to be part of piling on or being part of a witch hunt against Jesse Matthew, since, as police have pointed out, there’s really no probable cause to arrest him or to connect him yet to Hannah Graham’s disappearance.

Wanting the last person seen with a missing girl
to speak with LE is a witch hunt?
 
Good grief...according to this, there WERE two men?

I'm telling you that is exactly why this case is so crazy. The media has had SO MANY conflicting reports it is enough to drive someone insane.

Who the heck knows anymore. Thats why I said all I am going to believe is what I see and hear in the press conferences. So nuts....
 
No. LE absolutely should not presume him to be innocent. That presumption has to do with who bears the burden to prove a case in court. That's it.

I agree. the whole purpose of LE is to find those they presume are guilty with sufficient proof to bring to trial But in terms of how we operate in society, JM is not guilty, is innocent of any harm to Hannah right now because really, there is not even any evidence of harm to her. She could show up hale and hearty today. Do I believe that's likely? Absolutely not, but it is possible. There is no crime right now to accuse JM other than the reckless driving. LE's working on getting other evidence, but right now nothing.

I do puzzle that LE did not work harder to talk to JM and his roommates, however, given the warrent for the car, and that it was so crucial to get any lead, any info on Hannah. We don't know what LE said to the occupants of that apt and to JM, but you woud think they would have treated all there very, very carefully, to try to get ANY lead on Hannah. That a missing young woman was at stake, I' m surprised that the whole lot of them weren't tagged and traced too. There may be a lot more than what LE is saying, but this part really makes no sense to me. I wonder if those roommates have not been questioned. Not a peep about them.
 
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