VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #6

[ksj3]

Newbie here, but local. I don't know POI, but when watching the video (before POI was ID'ed) there was a brief thought we could ID him. That brought up one of two scenarios in my mind, which may likely be relevant as one here describes him. First, we couldn't believe he had anything to do with causing her harm (if it were, in fact, the person we were mulling). But we could completely see this person notice her in distress, notice WG watching her, notice frat guys behind her harrassing her, and speed up to be the Knight in Shining Armor, by putting his arm around her as if he knew her, telling her, "Don't worry. I'll get you away from these guys. Walk with me. We're going to go over here and call x." Tempo would make sense. It's off the main mall, so the others likely wouldn't follow, and it's upscale so she would feel safe. She could call whomever she needed to as she were sitting down in a public place, safe. He might have even bought her a soda. He leaves Tempo, with her there waiting for a ride. The only weird thing with this is LE is confident she got in his car. Some here seem to forget that statement. Even in the above scenario, Knight in Shining Armor could have given her a ride "home" to 14th and Wertland and let her out. The next night another girl was assaulted in that area, and the night after that one assaulted and left for dead. POI could be too scared, in this town, with what just happened to Randy Taylor, to talk even if he did nothing wrong. Randy Taylor and a witnessed pegged a guy with dreds (there are TONS of those here) and a burgundy car as the last one with Alexis. Just thoughts.

 

[cluciano63]

From surveillance video police have found, it appears that Graham simply was walking in the wrong direction while trying to meet up with friends. Police detective James Mooney said that in her text messages to friends, Graham indicated that she was lost and disoriented, at one point saying she was on Main Street when she actually was on Preston Avenue.
Graham also indicated that she believed she was walking back toward her home when she was actually headed the opposite way, authorities said. She also texted friends asking for someone to come find her after she realized she was lost. She last texted friends at 1:06 a.m., about the time that the man in dreadlocks encountered her.
Longo, the police chief, said it is clear that Graham walked to the mall on her own — more than a mile from her apartment — and that police believe she could have left the mall in the man’s vehicle after joining him at Tempo, a restaurant and bar.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...25aab8-4001-11e4-b03f-de718edeb92f_story.html

Jmo I am still bugged her friends were not more concerned about her...it took way too long to,report her missing.

 

[shadetree44]

But that's just the thing: AS a general rule, you don't. Innocent people do not "lawyer up" typically. (Sometimes even the guilty don't). In my experience, as an attorney whose law partner is a criminal defense lawyer, innocent people tend to immediately talk, give DNA, give their alibis, etc. It's not until they realize they are being targeted by police or arrested that they realize they should probably get counsel. And this goes for very intelligent people as well.

But I guess that's neither here nor there, as this guy hasn't lawyered up yet, right? And I see that some are saying he's been quiet but do we know that? IF he's not cooperating and talking, that would be a red flag to me. Because it;s not about what we should do. It's about what people tend to do. It's about profiling. (Or trying to!)

No one knows if he is talking or not. He may have given LE all he can. LE is not going to disclose anything that may endanger its case. I'm sure LE is all over this, but I'm also sure they are not giving the public all they have for obvious reasons. Has anyone thought that JM may be a smoke screen. LE may also be looking at other POI's and as long as the trend appears to have everyone looking at JM, they will continue with their investigation. There are questions in my mine as to some of the data related to this case. Peace.

 

[cluciano63]

Newbie here, but local. I don't know POI, but when watching the video (before POI was ID'ed) there was a brief thought we could ID him. That brought up one of two scenarios in my mind, which may likely be relevant as one here describes him. First, we couldn't believe he had anything to do with causing her harm (if it were, in fact, the person we were mulling). But we could completely see this person notice her in distress, notice WG watching her, notice frat guys behind her harrassing her, and speed up to be the Knight in Shining Armor, by putting his arm around her as if he knew her, telling her, "Don't worry. I'll get you away from these guys. Walk with me. We're going to go over here and call x." Tempo would make sense. It's off the main mall, so the others likely wouldn't follow, and it's upscale so she would feel safe. She could call whomever she needed to as she were sitting down in a public place, safe. He might have even bought her a soda. He leaves Tempo, with her there waiting for a ride. The only weird thing with this is LE is confident she got in his car. Some here seem to forget that statement. Even in the above scenario, Knight in Shining Armor could have given her a ride "home" to 14th and Wertland and let her out. The next night another girl was assaulted in that area, and the night after that one assaulted and left for dead. POI could be too scared, in this town, with what just happened to Randy Taylor, to talk even if he did nothing wrong. Randy Taylor and a witnessed pegged a guy with dreds (there are TONS of those here) and a burgundy car as the last one with Alexis. Just thoughts.

Didn't LE locate the man with dreadlocks in that case? I think so...
Anyway I am convinced RT is right where he belongs. Jmo

 

[thinksalot]

Yeah, but I'd imagine she would use a different excuse that friends wouldn't follow up on (unfortunately it appears no one followed up on "I'm lost", but they certainly could have) and say something less questionable like "I have a headache- I'm going home". IMO of course.

I saw a news story that said she texted a friend asking for a ride because she was lost. I do not have the link at this time.

 

[GhostGhost]

He bought alcoholic drinks.

If he's a good samaritan, it's hard to explain his hands on her, his purchase of the drinks just before driving and his intentions with a young girl at that time of the morning.

And he's the one that doesn't call the Search Help line or any group helping the Search effort.

 

[Claudia]

From surveillance video police have found, it appears that Graham simply was walking in the wrong direction while trying to meet up with friends. Police detective James Mooney said that in her text messages to friends, Graham indicated that she was lost and disoriented, at one point saying she was on Main Street when she actually was on Preston Avenue.
Graham also indicated that she believed she was walking back toward her home when she was actually headed the opposite way, authorities said. She also texted friends asking for someone to come find her after she realized she was lost. She last texted friends at 1:06 a.m., about the time that the man in dreadlocks encountered her.
Longo, the police chief, said it is clear that Graham walked to the mall on her own — more than a mile from her apartment — and that police believe she could have left the mall in the man’s vehicle after joining him at Tempo, a restaurant and bar.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...25aab8-4001-11e4-b03f-de718edeb92f_story.html

This makes me so sad. This is the first we've heard about the other texts. She asked her friends to come find her. Poor girl.

 

[Dixie811]

Welcome to Websleuths! And thank you so much for sharing. I am on the fence about JM, but I find this kind of feedback very helpful. It's interesting that some folks felt like he had some boundary issues. I'm looking for red flags.

I do find it suspect that he portrays himself as a strong Christian according to someone else here on WS who knows him, and yet he was out drinking on the mall at 1 AM. That's not a typical Born-Again activity. It tells me there's a disconnect in identity, kind of like the Cooper Harris case. JMO

Respectfully, that doesn't mean much to me. We actually don't know if he was drinking at all that night up until the point he went into Tempo... we don't know what he was doing at the mall. But what I really wanted to say was I don't think it is a sound assumption that he is not genuine in his christian faith if he drinks alcohol. There are many different strokes for different folks as far as christianity goes. Many, many christians drink and are not morally opposed to alcohol.

IDK if he is responsible for this crime or not but... I just had to say that.

 

[Charlie Chan]

Hi all. I am new to this site and this is my first post. I wanted to say that I agee wiht WhitegateGirl. I find the WG VERY suspicious....his actions. I'm sure that the police are looking at him very closely as well.

 

[msteach]

Or...if he DID miss practice, it could just be that he could have been hungover from being out so late on Friday night...even if he didn't have anything to do with her disappearance.

Thank you! I am waiting for my son to come home tonight to ask him if Coach Matthew was at practice on the saturday morning following the incident. They practice on Saturdays very early in the morning (before it gets hot) and the coaches arrive even earlier. If Coach Matthew WAS at practice early Saturday morning, I would have an even harder time believing he had anything to do with this case. . . . . . especially, since it is not a big deal if the volunteer coaches miss practice. Coach Matthew has missed in the past when he has had to work, and there were no repercussions. So, if something DID happen Friday night and he WAS involved, he could have missed practice with no one really caring. . . . . . which makes me think that if he WAS at practice, there is less reason to think he was involved. I am soooo torn-up about this! I am just waiting for my son to come home and talk to me.

 

[birdbox]

And in related news, Ted Bundy's Kindergarten classmate said Ted was an awesome guy and regularly shared his chocolate milk.

Yes, that is how it goes.

 

[GhostGhost]

JM had a Trespassing after being notified. That's not altogether good.

Did he or his Father have the Indecent Exposure? Obviously, if it's not him, it has no bearing.


,

 

[lateott]

Been lurking here from the beginning. Excellent reasoning and sleuthing going on. Wanted to return to HG's intent for a moment. To do that I'm using the McGrady's video from the Cavalier Daily. It is zoomed out to the original frame size and gives a more overall view of what's happening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy43pVr2Ixw

My belief is HG wasn't lost at all. Drunk yes, but not lost.

McGrady's is located on the front of a two block square and Grady's Ave. (which is right next to McGrady's Irish Pub) and is a dead end street. HG only showed up on the Shell video once going toward the downtown mall. Therefore she likely emerged onto Preston from either 8th, 7th or Albemarle St. and then turned to go toward McGrady's.

McGrady's Pub has no adjoined parking lot therefore patrons park in the neighborhood surrounding it. If HG came down 8th St. she would have already scanned the cars parked down that street.

HG comes into view on the McGrady's CCTV video and walks to the front corner of the outside patio at :56 in the video. She stops and scans the area around her. She then walks to the other corner at 1:10 of the video and pauses again. She then exits the video and is gone until 2:56 in the video.

My belief is she has continued walking up to 10th St. and around the corner to further scan for cars parked nearby. At 1:35 in the video we see I male standing just outside the outdoor patio seating area. He appears to be a bouncer to me. At 2:56 when HG rounds the corner back at McGrady's the male immediately strolls to the meet her at the top of the ramp HG is walking up. They meet at 3:08 in the video and she passing him very quickly and he returns to the place where he was standing.

HG, in my mind, has cased McGrady's for a car she is familiar with. Why go up the ramp? She can get a better view if someone she is looking for is on the outdoor patio and also ask the bouncer "Hey have you seen ____?"

At 3:36 in the video HG crosses Grady Ave. and pauses one last time to look up Grady Ave. at the parked cars. Not finding what she's looking for she continues on.

Her next destination is the downtown mall. Think of that feeling you've had sometime in your life that you're missing the party, the fun. Thus to close the distance she runs for a while and that's what's caught on the Shell video footage.

YES, except I think she was not very drunk or lost. There has been a lot of exaggeration about that but she is moving pretty well and purposefully, and we have a lot of video time of her not drinking.

On the other hand we know she is going to a party and is no stranger to drinking (and this is reasonable, she is European and has been living with and experiencing alcohol for several years. Yes she lives in VA, but is in Europe every summer.)

We also know she is extremely sharp, worldly, witty. This is a smart woman, studious. No evidence of any interest in drugs, but like most college students knows how to party.

Her room has 20 or 30 booze bottles on top of the cabinet. How did she accumulate those, being under age? Well, people OF age buy it for her, of course. (PD should ask her roomies about that, "Hey, where'd all those bottles come from...?)

There are no drug deals, ruffies/spiked drinks, sex slave rings!

So what is she doing?

She's going to a party, and she is not going empty handed. She is going to buy something to bring, which is not a big deal to her except the silly US drinking age.

She goes right to McGrady's, looks twice in the beer garden for someone she knows, doesn't find him. Looks for his car, then looks for a third time at the front door. She goes further to the mall, and then finds him. First, they pass by each other going opposite directions and she doesn't see him. Then LJ wheels around to go the same direction, then off video passes the other group, calls out, "Hey, Hoo!" He doesn't know her by name, nor does she know him by name, only by sight. Hannah turns around and spots him, lets him catch up and discreetly tells him she needs some drinks for the party. (WG sees all this and bails.) LJ walks with her toward Tempo, now on the second video. He pops in, buys it, brings it out they part.

She heads back on Waters to try to find the party and gets to her neighborhood, but can't remember what apartment the party is in, texts she's coming but "lost". She is not LOST lost, she just can't find the party.

Then something bad happens.

LJ probably isn't involved beyond helping her out with the purchase but he isn't going to talk. He is black and she is white, young, connected. The police are not his friend. In his mind he might even get shot before this thing gets solved. Heck, they already took his car and ransacked his house! At the least the DA would need to give him immunity for buying for her (which he probably did in the past as well, for her and others.) But probably he still won't talk, and if you think about it from his perspective it makes sense.

I do hope they find her soon, sounds like a one-of-a-kind person. The world needs her.

 

[MLE]

To me, the behavior of the middle-aged white man who was hiding and watching her in the mall, ducking out of sight, etc., is MUCH more suspicious than anything I've heard about the guy with dreadlocks. Who does that? Who ducks and hides while watching a young girl in obvious distress and seemingly not in full command of her faculties? To my mind, that would be the behavior of a predator, someone stalking her and just waiting for his chance--NOT someone who wants to go to her aid. I wouldn't put it past such a person to continue the hide-and-watch routine while Hannah is talking with the dreadlocked guy, just waiting his own turn, and knowing that he now has someone else to blame for whatever he himself is hoping/planning to do. And the phone call to the help line later would be useful in turning LE's attention to a black suspect instead of himself. Somehow this all bothers me, mainly because of having seen the security film of this *helpful* middle-aged man ducking out of view to watch Hannah and then following her. All I think when I see that video is "predator." Sorry if all this has been said a zillion times, but this is my first visit to this thread.

I've never followed anyone, but when I have been walking down the sidewalk and noticed something amiss, I have stopped to observe. It has usually involved men abusing women, which happens in public with a surprising frequency where I live (South Korea). When I see something like that, if there's a bus stop there, maybe I'll look at the bus schedule. If there's a restaurant, maybe I'll browse the menu on the stand outside, while observing the situation out of my peripheral vision, because I don't want to make eye contact with the dude and end up in an unwanted confrontation. I want my presence to appear as a coincidence rather than an intrusion or a cockblock. I went to the police only one time, to give them the tag number of a car after a dude forced a woman into it when it appeared she didn't want to get in. The police were polite but didn't even seem to care. But I never get involved personally or try to be a White Knight. On video surveillance footage, I probably look like a creep. I'm going to be more careful in the future.

 

[Dixie811]

Jmo I am still bugged her friends were not more concerned about her...it took way too long to,report her missing.

. Especially since her phone was off. Meaning there would have been no response to texts and calls would have gone straight to voicemail. Not to mention she shared that apartment with two other people (even though she had her own bedroom). Considering that according to her lasts texts her friends should have known she was drunk and lost, it terrifies/baffles me that her friends didn't panic sooner.

 

[Heroine]

This makes me so sad. This is the first we've heard about the other texts. She asked her friends to come find her. Poor girl.

That could actually explain why she said coming to a party. Maybe she was asking a question. Her friend may have asked her was she coming to the party and she might would reply coming to a party (as in yeah right how can i go to a party when I'm lost)...I'm lost. That is sad.

 

[Sin City]

To me, the behavior of the middle-aged white man who was hiding and watching her in the mall, ducking out of sight, etc., is MUCH more suspicious than anything I've heard about the guy with dreadlocks. Who does that? Who ducks and hides while watching a young girl in obvious distress and seemingly not in full command of her faculties? To my mind, that would be the behavior of a predator, someone stalking her and just waiting for his chance--NOT someone who wants to go to her aid. I wouldn't put it past such a person to continue the hide-and-watch routine while Hannah is talking with the dreadlocked guy, just waiting his own turn, and knowing that he now has someone else to blame for whatever he himself is hoping/planning to do. And the phone call to the help line later would be useful in turning LE's attention to a black suspect instead of himself. Somehow this all bothers me, mainly because of having seen the security film of this *helpful* middle-aged man ducking out of view to watch Hannah and then following her. All I think when I see that video is "predator." Sorry if all this has been said a zillion times, but this is my first visit to this thread.

Maybe WG went to police first to find out what LE knew?

 

[Claudia]

Respectfully, that doesn't mean much to me. We actually don't know if he was drinking at all that night up until the point he went into Tempo... we don't know what he was doing at the mall. But what I really wanted to say was I don't think it is a sound assumption that he is not genuine in his christian faith if he drinks alcohol. There are many different strokes for different folks as far as christianity goes. Many, many christians drink and are not morally opposed to alcohol.

IDK if he is responsible for this crime or not but... I just had to say that.

Agreed.

 

[song22]

Respectfully, that doesn't mean much to me. We actually don't know if he was drinking at all that night up until the point he went into Tempo... we don't know what he was doing at the mall. But what I really wanted to say was I don't think it is a sound assumption that he is not genuine in his christian faith if he drinks alcohol. There are many different strokes for different folks as far as christianity goes. Many, many christians drink and are not morally opposed to alcohol.

IDK if he is responsible for this crime or not but... I just had to say that.

Oh no, I totally agree. I'm a Christian and I drink occassionally. I'm just picking up on the possibility/clues of a double life. It's not typical for certain types of Christians to be out downtown at bars at 1 am with a younger girl, drinking. It's the whole scene, I guess that seems off. But it's just a small thing.

 

[possumheart]

Jmo I am still bugged her friends were not more concerned about her...it took way too long to,report her missing.

Which makes me think they were as inebriated as HG, if not moreso. I know we don't know the exact text wording, but 'party' is an activity. So worst case scenario is HG has gone to pick up party supplies, sampled them and become disoriented. There was a case here in Australia of a young man, Gary Tweddle, who walked off to meet someone and pick up supplies while at a work conference, sampled them, became hyper and disoriented and went over a cliff. It was a very surprising end to days and days of searching, and not what sleuthers expected to unfold. His body wasn't located for some time despite all of the searching.
ETA: at the time Gary's friends seemed unhelpful.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/cocaine-arrest-sheds-light-on-tweddles-fatal-end-20130928-2ul59.html