VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #9

[Skigirl]

They do not have video of HG and JM after Tempo

They have eyewitnesses who saw them leave Tempo

Police said they have video of JM car leaving the area but they can't tell if HG is in it, that seems to be why Longo has twice pleaded with the public that if they saw her in his car they should tell police

Sigh, no need to shout. If you want, I'll go back and find the time during the press conf that they said they did have video post-Tempos. Perhaps the sheriff misspoke. I agree that what Longo said during his prepared remarks and what the sheriff said during Q&A seemed inconsistent.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

There is NOWHERE I see from any definite source that there is a video of JM and Hannah together after leaving Tempo. If there is , please give the cite. From what I have gathered from the facts given here, neither Hannah nor JM are on camera after leaving Tempo. LEare pretty sure he was in Tempo with Hannah because someone there, possibly a worker, bar tender IDed them, but Longo specifically said there is no video of them or of Hannah thereafter.

If footage of JM could be found immediately after the Temp encounter proving he went off on his own without Hannah immediately after the time he is pegged at Tempo with Hannah, he would be in pretty good shape, Don't think he is on any such film. Also, don't think his car is on any film because otherwise they could see who got into it and left. But they have mananged to locate the car near where Hannah was last seen.

Frankly, if he did go off, drive off alone, it's possible there is video footage that might clear him. That's another reason why I find that there is some credance, or at least good reason to be suspicious of JM. If he gets an attorney and tells said attorney what he did, where he went after parting ways with Hannah, it is possible that the attorney could get verification from videos or witnesses. If not, JM is going to be in more trouble.

BBM

It was stated by the LE officer Jim? (not Longo) at the PC yesterday: http://www.nbc29.com/story/26588920...s-make-emotional-plea-for-help-from-community (24:27 into the video)

You got me wondering and had to check I didn't imagine it!

 

[Jmm124567]

She was not just a little lost. She was way, way lost, and the thought is that she was on something, her mind was not working well. She was on the opposite side of where she lived from where she wanted to be--she was that far off. She is a UVA student who likely got an off campus apt for the first time this year, and didn't have her bearing straight. Went off to a party and went altogether the wrong direction with no idea where to go. Her path is all wrong. Her friends were busy socializing and doing whatever at the party so no telling if they even heard her call or text. Last text was at 1:20 AM from what LE has said (though not 100% that the time is exact, as texts can sometimes not go through right away) and all it said was that she was at the intersection of two streets, and that info apparently was not correct from what LE could get from cell phone data. Who she was with, on foot, or in a car when she made that text, has not been released. Don't know where LE think she was when she made the text--I believe they do have an idea where that was. The time is very close to when she left Tempo, I believe.

She did not ask for help or directions from what video footage shows. Likely she did not want to call campus security or police, or even approach someone of authority because they might call the police, and she seemed to be either drunk or on something and she is underage. If such authorities came to her, they would likely notice this, ask for id and she could be in trouble Have seen this around universities. She really should have found a high profile spot like a gas station , called everyone she knew till she got someone and asked if someone could come get her.

My son got an SOS call from a friend once in such a situation that was highly charged--girl was in terrible state of mind, angry at boyfriend who was sons friend. I called the police and her parents immediately rather than let him go charging out here. Parents were not extolling their daughter's virtues after that, but she was taken home safely with loved ones right thre. If a passing car had picked her up, with an evil person in it, the story could have had a different ending. Or if my son had gone there, taken her to her home or to a place she wanted to go, and then she disappeared, it could have been a complicated situation for her and him.

But Hannah Graham was totally lost on the whole wrong side of town from where she wanted to be. She was waaay off and could not run back anywhere because she didn't know where anything was from where she found herself. She was very lost.

I think HG was texting her friends trying to find the location of where to meet. I have a feeling they were at a bar and that's what she was looking for based on her behavior at McGrady's and the fact that she was walking on main streets because if she was looking for a house party she would be on the side streets in residential areas. I think she may have walked to the outdoor mall to check the bars.

 

[Foxfire]

There has been discussion about POI in general and JLM specifically and people who've been targeted but later found to be innocent. That is the context in which I reposted that link.

I understand, Emaa, and am empathetic for those folks that have been unfairly targeted or named as POIs in an unsolved crime. This occurs in virtually every abduction/murder case, especially when a stranger is involved.. A very long list of POIs are ruled out before the actual suspect is identified and apprehended. Many times it is years or decades later before justice is served, if ever..

Imo, this case is an anomaly. Imo, HG was abducted by a stranger who has likely been identified within days of her abduction.. I am confident that the forensics will reveal whether JM will remain a POI, or be relabeled suspect status..jmo

 

[leah]

What happens if the forensics from the car and apt show that Hannah wasn't in either place? What do the police say then to Jesse, sorry about all this, have a good day? Just wondering what happens next.

 

[Topcat]

That is what an attorney is for and he legally could have the attorney in the room with him at all times during the interview. I don't think anyone is saying he shouldn't have a lawyer present. It seems even with talking with a lawyer he prefers to flee instead. Very guilty behavior imo.

It has seemed to me that most who have distrust of LE or they ones who have committed crimes and actually have been involved with the criminal justice system. I have no distrust of LE because personally I have no experience of ever having to deal with them. Of course I do read continuously and know there are bad cops just like there are bad apples in all professions. But if I was innocent and they wanted to talk with me I would have no qualms in doing so especially knowing the seriousness and urgency of a missing person case. I doubt I would even retain an attorney if I was just a witness in Hannah's case and nothing more.

It takes much more than misconstrued words to arrest someone. A Judge isn't going to sign an arrest warrant based on 'words' alone.

Something is up and that is why he is refusing to cooperate. Now that is his right of course but it is still very strange if he is nothing more than someone who saw Hannah..which is what he is trying to portray.

Imo, where there is smoke there is fire.

IMO

bbm he most certainly will, it just depends on what was said .example would be a witness would was in a persons room and saw what looked like blood on a bathroom wall. A search warrant can be written up based on that info. BTW, there are plenty of law abiding people who have mistrust of the government of which law enforcement is a branch of.

 

[whyman]

P = Perpetrator V = Victim

Some speculation:
I just think this case is very "simple" in the end. P meets V and can clearly see that V is very drunk. P decides to take advantage of this and gets V even more drunk. After this P lets V walk off very drunk alone only to show up minutes later as the catcher in the rye offering a ride home. V gets in the car. They go somewhere. P does or try to have non or consensual sex with V. Then i see 2 options, a fight start or V suffer a major emergency due to alcohol intoxication. The end result is that V dies. P panic and hides her body in water or a remote wooded area. Just my opinion but this is what everyone is thinking without really saying right?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Yeah University of Virginia area seems like a pit of serious crime. I live in Michigan and as far as I know universities like Michigan State and University of Michigan don't have girls vanishing.

Are you too young to remember John Norman Collins?

http://murderpedia.org/male.C/c/collins-john-norman.htm

 

[Perplexed 123]

what if JM is also disappeared by persons unknown?

 

[Eileen730]

What don't you understand about this? If he spoke to a lawyer, any criminal lawyer would likely tell him to be silent. And they know best what a person should do in such a situation. He was the last person to see this missing person, the police have seized his car, searched his apartment, put his picture on the Missing poster of Hannah Graham, even as they fully admit that they don't have enough info to arrest him for his involvement in this case, and that all they have is that he's the last person they can trace to Hannah. Lawyer is saying that best thing for him is to lie low--already he didn't do that, racing off the way he did in the car, and now giving LE grounds to book him.

He does have some things to hide. He gave alcohol to an underage female who was looking disoriented on film. He probably did try to pick her up. Maybe he succeeded. He could be innocent of anyting other than that to guilty of killing her and disposing of the body, with a whole spectrum in between, and right now the cops have nothing on him. Anything he gives to them, unless it's proof of innocence is likely going to tighten the noose around his neck. The track record of how black men have been treated in the south in such cases is abysmal, and frightening. So of course he's going to be protecting his hide.

Frankly, in most such cases, someone like him, last one to be with missiing person, car right there, there is something to hide, in fact everything to hide. No surprise he isn't talking unless he has to. The instant that there is a shred of evidence that harm likely came to Hannah, JM is likely to get charged with some serious things, as bad as Murder 1. Of course, he is going to be silent. That is the best thing for HIM to do. Not Hannah, not her parents, not LE, but for HIM. And we should also keep in mind, he might well be innocent of anything more than having that drink with her. I personally doubt it, but it is possible.

Sorry Im not buying it.
What I don't UNDERSTAND is thinking he is innocent...He has made himself look Guilty.
If this dude was just out for a stoll on the mall and saw himself on video he would have come forward.
To me It appears he saw a young woman that was disoriented and upset and very ALONE ..... made his move!

Sorry fate put him there it is what it is He was seen on video on national TV its time to put the big boy pants on and do whats right. No matter what color u are. All JMO

 

[Bella2006]

Awhile back people had mentioned JM had issue with alcohol? Was this ever clarified to be him? If so, perhaps he recalls very little from that night. That would be a very distressing situation to be in. Who is going to believe you when you say yes you remember her, but you don't remember the whole night, but you know you didn't have anything to do with her missing. He has some things stacked on him that do not look good for him. Is it possible he ran to buy sometime. In hopes that something else will be discovered to clear him of suspicion. Maybe he knew is car and apartment held no clues to her disappearance and so he is waiting it out for them to see this.

 

[Bill2013]

Finding HG hair in JM' car. He'll claim he picked it up when he put his arm around her

 

[Just K]

Responding to this post from the last thread:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...sville-13-Sept-2014-8&p=10992679#post10992679
These are the post re: the topic of young men noticing HG
Thread 7 post 557
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...sville-13-Sept-2014-7&p=10988833#post10988833
Quote Originally Posted by Matiseh View Post
I'm wondering what she was looking for after crossing the street. She stops and it looks as though she bends down looking on the ground. Are their bushes on the corner? Maybe she threw up?

JUSTK responded to Matiseh:
I watched that section of the video bout six times this morning and paid close attention to the different groups of patrons and passersby. At one point I began to see that almost each group made concerted efforts to view in the direction of where HG went... whatever was going on off camera caught the attention of the group of three on the patio...and even the guys further to the corner of the patio. I'd love to know what was so curious about where HG went or what she was doing or saying, etc.

Here is the post about the two white females:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...sville-13-Sept-2014-8&p=10990857#post10990857
Quote Originally Posted by jamicat View Post
LE is in a tough spot. They need to mover quickly and aggressively, given that this is a missing young woman case with a good chance that foul play may be involved. Yet, they have to play by the rules and anyone who come up as a POI has to be given his rights. LE, in such cases, try to give out as little info as possible, yet as much as they can to get people to step forward to give more info. It's a delicate balance.

My guess is that they have video footage of JM with Hannah to a point, but then that's it and it's not enough to hold JM as a suspect. We don't know what LE said to JM, or what JM told LE. The report that he had drinks with Hannah and they then went separate ways is not attributed to JM by LE, but by a news source who says his grandmother said this. Whether that is indeed what he told his grandmother or if it came from someone else who told the grandmother we don't know. This can be 3rd or 4th hand info. All we know is that there is not enough evidence to book JM, but enough to make LE suspicious of him.

Just K response to jamicat:
I would be very curious to know if either of the two heavy-set women who acknowledged him on the video have been interviewed by LE or have voluntarily called in any information they might have. I wonder if they even live in the C-ville area.

Today's thought:
Beyond the WG & JLM, everyone seen on video between 1:00 and 1:40 AM, at the downtown mall, would be a valuable witness. They could possibly fill in the blanks as to the parts before, in between and after that are not caught on video.

 

[blefuscu]

They do not have video of HG and JM after Tempo

They have eyewitnesses who saw them leave Tempo

Police said they have video of JM car leaving the area but they can't tell if HG is in it, that seems to be why Longo has twice pleaded with the public that if they saw her in his car they should tell police

According to the presser last night they have tape of them together after leaving Tempo

 

[DavidC]

Please reference your "statistics" about a"better chance" of being shot by mistake by a lawfully armed conceal-n-carry holder or retract your statement please. This is NOT the time or place for your anti-gun, anti-Fox News agenda. I find it very distasteful.

I live about 2 hours from there and not in a seedy area so I hope you're not in my neighborhood. Please don't start carrying your gun around because of this. Statistics say that you are more likely to shoot me by mistake (or heaven forbid, start a new Trevor Martin scenario) than to have JM actually show up at your house. How come people who overestimate the chance of random crime...the people who get scared by what Fox news has to say, are the people who feel the need to carry a gun?

To make this relevant and not political, over-thinking this doesn't help. There's no conspiracy here, it's not sex-trafficking or an ISIS kidnapping (yeah, someone actually suggested this might be the case since her dad works near DC....he must be a spook!). Her scenario up to 1:20am happens thousands of times every weekend and almost all of them end with the kid waking up in their bed with a hang-over, laughing about how lost they were. The circumstances here are terribly unfortunate but pretty straight forward. Someone knows more than they are saying. That person is JM. He could be of help to LE but is choosing not to because of his rights. I guess every has the right to be a selfish a-hole.

 

[pinkandgreenmom]

Okay so JM had court on 9/18 for "driving after being declared a habitual offender" - he was found guilty but given 90 days in jail with all 90 suspended........ if he was really a suspect in this case why didn't the judge give him at least 4 days in jail for Drive - H.O.??

Wasn't it shown that that was his father?

 

[Topcat]

What happens if the forensics from the car and apt show that Hannah wasn't in either place? What do the police say then to Jesse, sorry about all this, have a good day? Just wondering what happens next.

and that is exactly why most law enforcement agencies keep a lot of info close at hand and don't divulge much(which infuriates many, especially WS'ers). That is why so much "love" is heaped on Longo here..

 

[astridxx]

BTW the indecent exposure charge was for dad, not JM Jr.

 

[random989898]

There have been lot's of banter about how LE is handling this case. I think it's all strategy on Le's part and it is so interesting how each case like this that we hear about is handled by le with the media and public. In this case people are saying LE is revealing too much, putting too much out there. Its such a contrast to the Sarah Goode case handling by le. There was virtually a media blackout. There was complete silence from le, until an arrest was made. That was due to the fact that they knew from the beginning who was responsible. Once they found her body, and forensics, it was just a matter of days before they made an arrest. And ya know what? The person responsible was the last person she was with and he also fled to a different state a few days after the killing.
In my opinion, JM is bringing all this speculation on himself. He knows they want to speak to him, he goes to the police dept, talks to a lawyer and walks out without saying anything. All of his actions after leaving the police dept are bazaar to me. LE is not going to just give up on their quest to speak to him. If he would have just talked to them from the get go, he wouldn't be getting all of this attention and having so many people questioning why he just won't talk. And honestly, if he is innocent, that makes his silence horrendous to me. I can understand why a guilty person won't talk, or even an innocent person who might be afraid but a body was found already.....but I don't understand an innocent person, who was the last person known to see this girl, who is still missing....he can help find this girl. This girl is missing, could be still alive and suffering.....We see so many cases of these young girls disappearing and the outcomes.....every minute, hour, day that JM does not talk could possibly be costing this girl her life. I pray that they find her safe. The feelings of uncertainty, helplessness, frustration that her parents must be feeling must be unbearable.
This is all just my opinion

LE said in the first press conference that they HAD spoken to him and that now they wanted to speak to him AGAIN. We have no idea what JM said in that first conversation, or how long it was. Maybe he felt he had already given all the detail he could in that initial conversation.

 

[cady]

What happens if the forensics from the car and apt show that Hannah wasn't in either place? What do the police say then to Jesse, sorry about all this, have a good day? Just wondering what happens next.

Still would want to know what their conversation was, where had she been, where was she going, which direction did she take when they parted ways, was she upset, sad, drunk, confused, did she use her phone etc etc etc. JMO