VA VA - Kelly Catalano, 40, Chesterfield, 15 Jan 2010 - #2

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In reading the information again (more closely this time) on Soulmagent's link, it says "no tattoos" on the image you can click with photos of the clothing this woman was wearing. The description for AB, the missing girl, says she does have a tattoo on her foot. However, it still sounds very close.

ETA: Also, AB is stated as being 160 lbs. & this woman estimated at around 110 lbs. Still, height, estimated age, time she went missing, and clothing all seem to match!
 
size 14/16 juniors shirt on a 5'2" 110lb girl who wears a 34D bra.. that's a fairly large shirt/dress for her height and weight! (I wore a 5/7 when I was that weight, and am only 5'0") IMO.. maybe they have the weight off?

eta:: 'they' could either be the police/ME in reference to the body found or the person associated with that missing girl, who reported her missing
 
wait, aren't junior sizes only in odd numbers?

I thought it went:
kids even
juniors odd
woman's even

anyone willing to open a thread so we can sleuth this case instead of hijacking Kelly's?
 
Could it be Jill Edmonds?
Black, would have been nicely dressed on her way to work as a bank teller?
 
Could it be Jill Edmonds?
Black, would have been nicely dressed on her way to work as a bank teller?

Probably not. The victim found in Stafford County is described as a black female, mid-teens to mid-20s, approximately 5'2" and 110 pounds with long black hair.

Jill Edmonds is described as a black female, 40, 5’4”, and 157 pounds with straight, shoulder-length black hair.
 
**bump**

Has it ever been established WHO stated they saw Kelly sprinting toward the river? I don't recall that remark being attributed to any specific person, just that it's been repeated here over and over.

I know a poster here has asked if Kelly took her lunch to work usually and if she did so the day she disappeared. That is a very good question and could be very telling. (I apologize that I don't know who has asked this a few times but it's very good sleuthing if you ask me!)
 
**bump**

Has it ever been established WHO stated they saw Kelly sprinting toward the river? I don't recall that remark being attributed to any specific person, just that it's been repeated here over and over.

I know a poster here has asked if Kelly took her lunch to work usually and if she did so the day she disappeared. That is a very good question and could be very telling. (I apologize that I don't know who has asked this a few times but it's very good sleuthing if you ask me!)


ITA!! I know I had posted about it...I believe it was "knowthings" who first asked about bringing lunch.
As far as the "sprinting" thing...IIRC, don't quote me on this...I believe someone who's relative works there had said that. I need to go back to thread 1 again to find it....I don't believe it was in any of the news reports...was it??

OK...this is horrible to think....but, just to go by what LE believes....I DON'T believe this was a suicide at all.....but, along with the bank of the "river" searches....IIRC, LE had boats in the river searching right after this had happened. Obviously, nothing came of it.
We know from "josephd", who is our greatest resource to explain/give info for the area, the river was running pretty swiftly during that time....anyone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong.

1) It would be interesting to know just how far down the river did LE search at that time....
2) IIRC, from the Laci Peterson case, somehow it was possible to extrapolate just how far the body could have traveled....from tides, etc. I KNOW it would probably be next to impossible to figure out with changes in current due to snow melt, etc.
BUT....have any boats gone up and down the river lately to just check the banks or area's of where branches would stop up the flow, etc??
3) I'm sure "josephd" could answer this....how populated are the area's around the banks?? I know up here many people buy river/lake front property for boat access and the "view", so to speak.

I guess I'm thinking, maybe, just to check, the people in those areas - pretty far down river, could be asked by media, newspaper ad, fliers, etc to see if anything is there...or take their boats out and just go up and down an area to check it out???
 
**bump**

Has it ever been established WHO stated they saw Kelly sprinting toward the river? I don't recall that remark being attributed to any specific person, just that it's been repeated here over and over.

I know a poster here has asked if Kelly took her lunch to work usually and if she did so the day she disappeared. That is a very good question and could be very telling. (I apologize that I don't know who has asked this a few times but it's very good sleuthing if you ask me!)


Went back and found these posts in the 1st thread....

Post#25...References Craigs List link in Post #22 (link not work...not at Craigs List anymore - was originally put there by a niece, IIRC) but, basically Post #25 references what #22 link said....which included Kelly "taking a run from work"....

Post #29 Talks about Kelly telling co-workers about going for a "walk by the river"

Post # 103....from "Curious18"....referencing the sprinting/full run past the lobby....

Post # 106....same poster...says "not positive"...


Geesh...soooo frustrating...I check this thread every day....I only wish we knew that LE was just as baffled as we are....and that maybe LE has had a change of heart and realize they jumped to a conclusion too quickly....
 
ITA!! I know I had posted about it...I believe it was "knowthings" who first asked about bringing lunch.
As far as the "sprinting" thing...IIRC, don't quote me on this...I believe someone who's relative works there had said that. I need to go back to thread 1 again to find it....I don't believe it was in any of the news reports...was it??

OK...this is horrible to think....but, just to go by what LE believes....I DON'T believe this was a suicide at all.....but, along with the bank of the "river" searches....IIRC, LE had boats in the river searching right after this had happened. Obviously, nothing came of it.
We know from "josephd", who is our greatest resource to explain/give info for the area, the river was running pretty swiftly during that time....anyone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong.

1) It would be interesting to know just how far down the river did LE search at that time....
2) IIRC, from the Laci Peterson case, somehow it was possible to extrapolate just how far the body could have traveled....from tides, etc. I KNOW it would probably be next to impossible to figure out with changes in current due to snow melt, etc.
BUT....have any boats gone up and down the river lately to just check the banks or area's of where branches would stop up the flow, etc??
3) I'm sure "josephd" could answer this....how populated are the area's around the banks?? I know up here many people buy river/lake front property for boat access and the "view", so to speak.

I guess I'm thinking, maybe, just to check, the people in those areas - pretty far down river, could be asked by media, newspaper ad, fliers, etc to see if anything is there...or take their boats out and just go up and down an area to check it out???

Interesting that you bring that up. I too believe that this was not a suicide but I can't seem to seperate Kelly's disappearance from the water for some reason. Recently I've discovered that the area where Kelly was last seen "sprinting" toward the river, that's been continually quoted as being the Appomattox River, is not. Swift Creek is the body of water that runs alongside Blueprint Automation, or more precisely, it's a tributary of Swift Creek. If you look at this topography map, Swift Creek is labeled, and it's 'mouth' is north of BPA by several hundred feet. This is from the US Geological Survey.
TOPO1.jpg

Here's a close-up. The black square is Linens of The Week.
SwiftCreek3.jpg

Then there's this....
Search and Rescue Info-Body Float Chart
http://www.sar-info.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=98
*snipped
15. Victims who are dead before they enter the water will not sink and float. We had a victim travel 175 miles in 3 days who was thrown in the river from a motorcycle accident.

Now look at this map to bring it all into perspective....
KelCat.jpg


If Kelly went into the water, she'd have to cross this tributary of Swift Creek bordering BPA, an island, Swift Creek itself, an island, an area where run-off from the Appomattox pools, and then make her way into the waters of the Appomattox itself. With the current flow in that area, if her body followed this tributary into the main body of Swift Creek, then notice Swift Creek seperates from the Appomattox totally and follows a much different path leading it under I95 to the west.

I lived in that area most of my life. I had no idea Swift Creek came up that far until a relative who lives on Swift Creek pointed this out to me three days ago. These pictures I took at BPA? Swift Creek, each and every last one of them......notice in the first picture you see the tributary, the island beyond and another body of water? That's the main body of Swift Creek. You can't even see the Appomattox River from here?!?
DSCN0401.jpg


DSCN0403.jpg


DSCN0402.jpg


What's the point? I'm not satisfied that Kelly isn't in the water. This body of water, whatever you choose to call it, isn't notorious for giving up it's secrets. I've personally witnessed three drownings and three recoveries in the area 2 miles south, on the Appomattox, in my lifetime. Search and Recovery didn't find one of them and all three were not found in the area where they went under.

If this happened, and Kelly went in, it's possible that the body traveled into the main body of Swift Creek, which is at the top of this image. That's assuming, of course that the current runs this way. My guess, from looking at close-up's of erosion is that it does.
CreekFlow-1.jpg


So if that happened and she isn't behind Linens of The Week, which I'm sure was thoroughly searched, then the body traveled further if we consider the SAR info-Body Float Chart. If so, this is as far as anything as big as a human being is liable to go without getting snagged or sinking. I95 overpass, west of BPA. Swift Creek runs under it and there is an area to the west of that overpass that's a wasteland. It's about 1.8 miles, by boat, from BPA. We used to play there when I was a kid and according to my relative's children, who live on Swift Creek, not much has changed.
This area.....see where Swift Creek goes under I95?
Catalano-2.jpg


A closer look...you see 95 running parallel at the top of your image. Swift Creek comes under on the top, left.
LOOK.jpg


So just how big is this Swift Creek anyway....
This is taken in the extreme leftward bend of Swift Creek just under one mile from BPA. White Bank Park...
WhiteBankPark.jpg


And this is taken from that I95 overpass...
SwiftCreek95N.jpg


I'm of the opinion that unless you could drain these two bodies of water in this area, you've no way of knowing for certain whether or not Kelly is there.

I can't help but ask myself, if there was enough time for Kelly to met someone, and potentially be kidnapped without anyone seeing a living soul, then there was time enough for her to wind up in the water at the hands of another as well. Duck hunters? Would their attention likely be focused on BPA? Surely they aren't permitted to shoot duck in the direction of a populated business.

I feel like a dimwit. Had I known Swift Creek came up this far when I was there, I would have searched that area myself as best I could.

I believe she's in the water. Why? Because it just seems to me that there has been entirely too much insistence that Kelly had the potential to be violent and that she could conceivably commit suicide. All of it just strikes me that these things sound like excuses.

Let's do a hypothetical....

Kelly prearranges to meet the mystery person at the river, literally, to avoid the two of them being seen together and potentially risking her job to facilitate this special meeting. Mystery person pulls up behind the parking lot mound, gets out of his/her car, and walks directly to the river from there. Kelly comes out late, running, and heads to the pathway leading from the cul de sac to the river. Mystery person is pacing by the river, annoyed because this is supposed to be so important, yet Kelly is late. Tense words are exchanged but not to the point of screaming. Perhaps mystery person or Kelly turn to go in frustration, trying to avoid the argument that will ensue because they both know their history and one needs to walk away before it escalates. One grabs the other as one tries to walk away. It becomes physical. Perhaps Kelly is stangled or she falls and hits her head. Maybe she loses her footing and falls in accidently, alive, and she tries to swim but the current and the cold is too much for her. All of these things could explain a body that retains it's ability to float for some distance. Without blood or DNA left at the scene there would be nothing to track but a scent, and Kelly had been there numerous times.
No one has been named a POI. No one has come forward to say "oh yeah, so and so cleaned the crap out of their car immediately after January 15th or acted suspiciously.

Spring is coming. People will be out and about and fishing, boating and walking these area's. I truly believe that Kelly will be found but I believe that everything has it's time. I don't know exactly why she hasn't been found but I believe in my higher power, and I truly believe he knows what he's doing up there. When the time is right, he'll bring our Kelly home.

Sorry for the book but I had no computer for almost a week so the withdrawals show. I know a lot of you don't agree that she's in the water but honest to God I cannot get that out of my head!!!:banghead: I remain open to any possibility, as long as it does NOT involve suicide.
 
Interesting that you bring that up. I too believe that this was not a suicide but I can't seem to seperate Kelly's disappearance from the water for some reason. Recently I've discovered that the area where Kelly was last seen "sprinting" toward the river, that's been continually quoted as being the Appomattox River, is not. Swift Creek is the body of water that runs alongside Blueprint Automation, or more precisely, it's a tributary of Swift Creek. ...
If Kelly went into the water, she'd have to cross this tributary of Swift Creek bordering BPA, an island, Swift Creek itself, an island, an area where run-off from the Appomattox pools, and then make her way into the waters of the Appomattox itself. With the current flow in that area, if her body followed this tributary into the main body of Swift Creek, then notice Swift Creek seperates from the Appomattox totally and follows a much different path leading it under I95 to the west.
I lived in that area most of my life. I had no idea Swift Creek came up that far until a relative who lives on Swift Creek pointed this out to me three days ago. These pictures I took at BPA? Swift Creek, each and every last one of them......notice in the first picture you see the tributary, the island beyond and another body of water? That's the main body of Swift Creek. You can't even see the Appomattox River from here?!?
What's the point? I'm not satisfied that Kelly isn't in the water. This body of water, whatever you choose to call it, isn't notorious for giving up it's secrets. I've personally witnessed three drownings and three recoveries in the area 2 miles south, on the Appomattox, in my lifetime. Search and Recovery didn't find one of them and all three were not found in the area where they went under.
If this happened, and Kelly went in, it's possible that the body traveled into the main body of Swift Creek, which is at the top of this image. That's assuming, of course that the current runs this way. My guess, from looking at close-ups of erosion is that it does.
So if that happened and she isn't behind Linens of The Week, which I'm sure was thoroughly searched, then the body traveled further if we consider the SAR info-Body Float Chart. If so, this is as far as anything as big as a human being is liable to go without getting snagged or sinking. I95 overpass, west of BPA. Swift Creek runs under it and there is an area to the west of that overpass that's a wasteland. It's about 1.8 miles, by boat, from BPA. We used to play there when I was a kid and according to my relative's children, who live on Swift Creek, not much has changed.
I'm of the opinion that unless you could drain these two bodies of water in this area, you've no way of knowing for certain whether or not Kelly is there. ...
I can't help but ask myself, if there was enough time for Kelly to met someone, and potentially be kidnapped without anyone seeing a living soul, then there was time enough for her to wind up in the water at the hands of another as well. Duck hunters? Would their attention likely be focused on BPA? Surely they aren't permitted to shoot duck in the direction of a populated business.
I feel like a dimwit. Had I known Swift Creek came up this far when I was there, I would have searched that area myself as best I could.
I believe she's in the water. Why? Because it just seems to me that there has been entirely too much insistence that Kelly had the potential to be violent and that she could conceivably commit suicide. All of it just strikes me that these things sound like excuses.
Let's do a hypothetical....
Kelly prearranges to meet the mystery person at the river, literally, to avoid the two of them being seen together and potentially risking her job to facilitate this special meeting. Mystery person pulls up behind the parking lot mound, gets out of his/her car, and walks directly to the river from there. Kelly comes out late, running, and heads to the pathway leading from the cul de sac to the river. Mystery person is pacing by the river, annoyed because this is supposed to be so important, yet Kelly is late. Tense words are exchanged but not to the point of screaming. Perhaps mystery person or Kelly turn to go in frustration, trying to avoid the argument that will ensue because they both know their history and one needs to walk away before it escalates. One grabs the other as one tries to walk away. It becomes physical. Perhaps Kelly is stangled or she falls and hits her head. Maybe she loses her footing and falls in accidently, alive, and she tries to swim but the current and the cold is too much for her. All of these things could explain a body that retains it's ability to float for some distance. Without blood or DNA left at the scene there would be nothing to track but a scent, and Kelly had been there numerous times.
No one has been named a POI. No one has come forward to say "oh yeah, so and so cleaned the crap out of their car immediately after January 15th or acted suspiciously.
Spring is coming. People will be out and about and fishing, boating and walking these area's. I truly believe that Kelly will be found but I believe that everything has it's time. I don't know exactly why she hasn't been found but I believe in my higher power, and I truly believe he knows what he's doing up there. When the time is right, he'll bring our Kelly home.
Sorry for the book but I had no computer for almost a week so the withdrawals show. I know a lot of you don't agree that she's in the water but honest to God I cannot get that out of my head!!!:banghead: I remain open to any possibility, as long as it does NOT involve suicide.

What an excellent post, Shutterfly. Thanks for all the clarifying images. They're perfect to explain what you mean.

It's very possible that Kelly went in the water--but, you're right, not to commit suicide, a theory I've rejected ever since LE said they were leaning in that direction. If she went in, I believe she was pushed. JMHO. And I've read in many places that she was an excellent swimmer, but if you're wearing work boots, as Kelly was, and in a rapidly moving body of water, it may not be possible to get oneself out, no matter how good a swimmer you are.

All of the many little streams to the south of BPA need to be searched thoroughly. There are just so many twists and turns in the river at that point, she could be anywhere. I look forward to Spring and what a snow-less landscape could reveal.

Thank you so much for the details once again, Shutterfly! Your contributions to this thread are enormous.
 
Shutter - I too thank you for your excellent posts! They are wonderful for those of us who do not know the area!

I won't disagree that it's possible that she's in the water - but I'm like you, if she is it wasn't by choice.

Could someone have made her get into the water? Would there have been a struggle? Would she have fought against someone with a gun or knife?

If someone were holding her at gunpoint would Kelly jump in the water to try and get away, thinking she could out swim the danger? Or would she known of the dangers of the water and tried to run?

Or would Kelly be the type try to be a peacemaker and try to talk someone out of doing harm? Even if that meant getting in someone's car.

To me - the main reason I don't believe she's in the water is that if there had been some kind of confrontation - especially in broad daylight there was always the chance someone would have heard and/or seen something. Anyone could have walked out of BPA or a delivery driver could have driven up, then there was the duck hunters that were out and about. Just too many chances to be seen IMO.

But of course, something could have happened really quickly as well and she was shoved or forced into the water - so I don't rule that out.

Has it ever been confirmed 100% that the gloves and safety glasses were found the next day? If these things were there that next day, how were they found? Gloves together with glasses on top? Or gloves here and glasses there? Were the safety glasses fingerprinted?
 
:bow:....."Shutterfly"....I'll quote Frank Barrone...."HOLY CRAP"!!!! LOL
You truly are a master at your attention to detail and phenomenal visual info for us.....especially for me, I couldn't even begin to fathom the enormous space and soooo many twists and turns of that whole waterway....Thanks so very much!! :bow:

Now that I see the nearly impossible task of my suggestion, it REALLY appears quite amateur....to say the least....:blushing:

Hmmm...now I'm feeling even MORE frustrated...what a daunting task that would be.

What next??
 
Thank you so much, shutterfly. Wonderful and clear as always.

I've always thought she was in the water, though I don't have an opinion of how she got there. It's so easy to fall in from a bank if you're not being careful, if you're upset or angry or just not paying attention. Even a very strong swimmer can drown quickly in icy water if they fall in fully clothed, or if they bang their head on a rock or branch.
 
I talked to the dive captin a few weeks ago . The way he explained it to me is that the water was shallow enough that you would be able to see a body in that area even if the water was coffee brown in color from the air. He said he searched the area very well and only found normal things on the bottom. for example tires , logs, trash etc.
 
I remember that the mailbox was marked with some words that were not very nice. Whoever wrote on the mailbox could be someone involved. I know its a long shot , but they have people that can match handwriting to someone. Maybe a " suspect" could be asked to write the same thing that was on the mailbox. In my mind that could be a person of interest?
 
I agree Scrappy - to me that shows that there was one person who was not happy with Kelly or not happy with a situation Kelly had created for them.

We've got doors unlocked - things moved around in the house - pictures missing from work - things written on a mailbox. Sounds to me like someone was trying to send Kelly a message...one that she didn't heed and ultimately paid for...
 
I remember that the mailbox was marked with some words that were not very nice. Whoever wrote on the mailbox could be someone involved. I know its a long shot , but they have people that can match handwriting to someone. Maybe a " suspect" could be asked to write the same thing that was on the mailbox. In my mind that could be a person of interest?
the person that wrote on the mailbox was CinV..not sure about the rest!
 
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