VA VA - Kelly Catalano, 40, Chesterfield, 15 Jan 2010 - #2

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Okay - there is NO *(&#ING WAY her body got there on it's own. It seems so shallow that I don't even think she could have swam there. Seriously! Foul play to the nth degree. :twocents:
 
I did the google thing also to get the perspective of where BPA was in relation to this part of the creek.

I have studied this for the last several minutes and don't see any way that she could have floated upstream and came to rest in this area.

Could she have walked and made it somewhere near this area? Well I guess it's possible, but IMO highly unlikely to traipse through marsh and dense brush to find a "spot"...

JMO - if Kelly was bent on ending her life (which I still in no way believe she did) why wouldn't she just pick the closest place to get in the creek? Why would she continue to walk and walk...

It's not adding up for me at all... I agree with Shutter's Dad - current/tide may pull a body back some...but yet when that current/tide goes out...the body is released from the pull and goes back to where it was - give or take a few feet.

Hey Shutter - maybe your Dad can answer this... Which is stronger - current/tide going in or coming out? I'm thinking going out...can't explain exactly why I think that. But it would lead me to believe that if she had been in the water all this time that she would have been up to a mile from BPA but going downstream...

Okay...this has probably been more than confusing...it's been a very long day...
 
Okay - there is NO *(&#ING WAY her body got there on it's own. It seems so shallow that I don't even think she could have swam there. Seriously! Foul play to the nth degree. :twocents:

ITA! No matter how I look at it and try to explain away certain things...I still can't make anything fit with how Kelly got to where she did - if she went by body in water.

I can only explain it away by boat/raft or by being much further upstream before getting in...or going off the I-95 bridge...

Something def. isn't right here....
 
I did the google thing also to get the perspective of where BPA was in relation to this part of the creek.

I have studied this for the last several minutes and don't see any way that she could have floated upstream and came to rest in this area.

Could she have walked and made it somewhere near this area? Well I guess it's possible, but IMO highly unlikely to traipse through marsh and dense brush to find a "spot"...

JMO - if Kelly was bent on ending her life (which I still in no way believe she did) why wouldn't she just pick the closest place to get in the creek? Why would she continue to walk and walk...

It's not adding up for me at all... I agree with Shutter's Dad - current/tide may pull a body back some...but yet when that current/tide goes out...the body is released from the pull and goes back to where it was - give or take a few feet.

Hey Shutter - maybe your Dad can answer this... Which is stronger - current/tide going in or coming out? I'm thinking going out...can't explain exactly why I think that. But it would lead me to believe that if she had been in the water all this time that she would have been up to a mile from BPA but going downstream...

Okay...this has probably been more than confusing...it's been a very long day...

BBM
You are correct, at least in the world according to my Dad you are....going out. Think of waves in the ocean. Know how when you get out past the breakers, the waves just kinda roll the water level up and down instead of crashing down around you? But if you stay out there and float, you notice that you wind up further and further out to sea.

Here's our layout...

Layout.jpg
 
Thanks Shutter!

That's what I was basing my opinion on...but didn't know quite know how to explain it...Standing in the ocean and feeling the pull of the water as it goes back out...even as more water is coming in...

Thanks so much for all of these maps and explanations! Your contributions to this list have been amazing!

I pulled up this same google map...and I just can't seem to quit looking at it (in terrain form - like you have done). I just cannot see how Kelly could have walked that far up stream to wind up in the position she was found.

Zooming in a little bit on the map, I can see where she could walk a certain distance - but then she would have had to walk around (or maybe thru) some of the other little creeks/streams that seem to flow into Swift Creek.

Sorry for all these posts...I guess I'm just trying to wrap my mind around this...and can't....
 
Thanks Shutter!

That's what I was basing my opinion on...but didn't know quite know how to explain it...Standing in the ocean and feeling the pull of the water as it goes back out...even as more water is coming in...

Thanks so much for all of these maps and explanations! Your contributions to this list have been amazing!

I pulled up this same google map...and I just can't seem to quit looking at it (in terrain form - like you have done). I just cannot see how Kelly could have walked that far up stream to wind up in the position she was found.

Zooming in a little bit on the map, I can see where she could walk a certain distance - but then she would have had to walk around (or maybe thru) some of the other little creeks/streams that seem to flow into Swift Creek.

Sorry for all these posts...I guess I'm just trying to wrap my mind around this...and can't....

Nor can I, and the more I think about it, the more it p*sses me off. See how this one grabs ya....

Track.jpg


This is the only way I can see that we can successfully get from point A at BPA to our lil rock......against the natural flow of the water that is. That must be some awfully strong "tide" going on there. Personally, I'd start investing in lifeguard shacks or fences, before this mystery tide jumps up on the bank at BPA and abducts and kills someone else.
 
This is the only way I can see that we can successfully get from point A at BPA to our lil rock......against the natural flow of the water that is. That must be some awfully strong "tide" going on there. Personally, I'd start investing in lifeguard shacks or fences, before this mystery tide jumps up on the bank at BPA and abducts and kills someone else.

I couldn't agree more!
 
Wow! Thanks for the research everyone. It certainly doesn't seem like she could have gone that direction. I wonder if we will ever know what happened :( RIP Kelly
 
Okay - there is NO *(&#ING WAY her body got there on it's own. It seems so shallow that I don't even think she could have swam there. Seriously! Foul play to the nth degree. :twocents:
Belimom, I am sorry but thanks for the laugh. I know it's not a laughing matter but your right there is no f@#$%^$ way she swam there.
 
First, let me say how sorry I am to Kelly's family. I've been following this thread and nothing can prepare a family for this. My prayers are with you and Kelly. Joseph, Shutterfly and others - I am truly amazed by the above-and-beyond effort you've put in to searching for Kelly. If the world were full of people like you, we wouldn't need threads like this.

I was looking at the maps and understand the impossibility of the body traversing the current in the wrong direction. I wondered, though, at the proximity of the I-95 overpass to where the body was found. The biggest problem I have with the correlation is visibility - I can't imagine how no one would have seen an incident taking place right there in broad daylight. However, I've always thought she got into a car. It's possible that whoever was driving it came back later. Ultimately, I believe someone is responsible, and not Kelly and I really hope and pray that LE doesn't just let this go. Sorry for the ramble.
 
I was thinking that the area where Kelly disappeared and was found is a good distance away from the Atlantic Ocean.

If Kelly went against the natural flow of the waterway, then that had to be one heck of a super high tide in the waterway.

Just how deep is the waterway from where Kelly disappeared to where she was found? I'm thinking that the depth levels are different between those areas.

On I-95, is there a berm near the bridge for a vehicle to pull over near where Kelly was found? Would it be possible for someone to walk from I-95 to place Kelly there?

The pictures that Shutterfly posted this evening were very helpful indeed.
 
This is from Kelly's neice Jamie: UPDATE: Thank you everyone for all your help in finding My Aunt Kelly! As well as my familys sister, Aunt, daughter and loved friend! It has been confirmed the body they found is my Aunt Kelly Diane Catalano. I wish I had time to send out personal thanks to all of you however right now it is crazy. Also they will be bringing Kelly home for burial as well as a funeral and also we will be doing some type of service in Virginia for her. Thanks again all. And I will keep everyone posted as to the dates. It is still unconformed as to the cause of death. Please keep my family in your prayers as this is a really rough time. Never go a day without telling your friends and family you love them!
 
...(snipped)...
I was looking at the maps and understand the impossibility of the body traversing the current in the wrong direction. I wondered, though, at the proximity of the I-95 overpass to where the body was found. The biggest problem I have with the correlation is visibility - I can't imagine how no one would have seen an incident taking place right there in broad daylight. ...(snipped)...

Having driven that stretch of I-95 and I-295 many many times, I can say that you can't see much from I-95 in that area -- some bridges (esp 295) are very high and you can't even see what's below and the others (many on 95) go through very marshy areas. Plus traffic moves pretty fast and there are tons of trucks, so you don't have the chance to glance over and notice anything. I just pass through, but maybe the locals can say more.
 
I think you've chosen the right lil rock. At first I thought the small island was a lot closer to White Bank Park (see photo below--blue label), but I no longer feel that is correct.

ScreenHunter_02Mar122255.gif


The lil rock makes so much more sense--it is close to interstate 95, which was reported repeatedly by the media--and it is pretty much the size reported. What doesn't make sense is how would the body make a sharp left-hand turn to enter a pathway among numerous "islands" near 95, to wind up on that rock? It doesn't seem probable or possible for the remains to wind up where they did simply by floating there in the wrong direction, or as MBLover put it, against the natural flow of the water.

Thanks for the images once again.


ETA: I finally figured out how to upload a photo. So proud.
 
I had read somewhere that the reason Kelly had surfaced now instead of earlier was because of the warmer weather (sorry to the family if this is graphic, I don't mean to hurt anyone) and that in colder weather the body would stay down deeper, longer. I'm just curious as to just how deep this route is that she would have taken and why she wasn't spotted when supposedly there had been aerial searches for her? When the path that has been laid out in Shutterfly's picture in post #66* (I'm sorry, I just can't type that number), then someone please explain where I will understand, is the entire path that Shutterfly laid out all that deep the entire way? Aren't there planes that fly over the area like they do here in Bedford and Roanoke Counties all the time where someone could have spotted her earlier? I have to agree with the rest of you...I can't understand the explanation I've read in the news on this. Maybe it's because I'm just a simple country girl and all this is over my head concerning her going up stream, but I have lived near large creeks all my life and I have never heard of this. Wonder if someone could do a type of "re-enactment" with a mannequin(sp?) that is about Kelly's size and see which direction it would go in? My heart hurts for Kelly's family and friends and I so wish I could take the pain away and bring Kelly back. I know they have closure now, but it's not the same as having her back in their lives. Sorry to be rambling on, but one more thing that bothers me is that there is not nor has been enough coverage on Kelly's disappearance or discovery. I just don't understand that and I had to make my feelings known to our local TV stations. Still praying for Kelly's family and friends.
 
Even if the location was to have occurred I am asuming that it would have have taken time to accomplish this as upstream travel would have to take longer so....(not that i think it occurred) during the water search in which they put boats in correct ? And the dog searches. and the Joesph searches. Didnt some even even say from the air they could see the bottom? I heard mention of an airsearch but do know it as fact. How could a dog missed the scent a mile away when it was coming downstream? How would they have missed finding her ????
 
Thank you everyone that has helped in aiding to find my aunt kelly. We will have her home in pa for burial this week and also will be doing a service in virginia sometime afterward. I will keep everyone posted as to when this is. Please everyone we do not feel this is an accident. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=1790546876 If anyone wants to follow more please add from facebook. Also for those of you on facebook with me already please let me know as I have added 200 people since My Aunt came missing and I do not know who most of the people are. I will be deleting a bunch after I find out when the funeral, burial and VA services will be and post it for people to see. Joe thank you sooooooo much in helping search and everyone else that I do not know personally. We can now lay her to rest. RIP AUNT KELLY, I LOVE YOU, and we will do the rest! God Bless all! I wil not be on here to read and follow up so you will need to contact me through facebook or send me and email here so I know thanks
 
WARNING:GRAPHIC CONTENT


BODY FLOAT INFORMATION
http://www.sar-info.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=98

*snipped (barely)
This information was complied by members John Sanders, Dr. John Whittington,


and Mark Williams of the National Underwater Rescue-Recovery Institute and


should only be used for estimating when a body should float.


WATER


TEMPERATURE


DAYS TO


SURFACE


40 degrees 14-20 days


50 degrees 10-14 days


60 degrees 7-10 days


70 degrees 3-7 days


80 degrees 1-2 days


1. Victims that have drowned in 30-40 degree water will not surface until


water warms.


2. Victims that are 100 feet or deeper may not surface at all due to the


combination of pressure and temperature



VARIABLES THAT AFFECT FLOAT TIME

1. When and What food was last consumed (foods high in carbohydrates:beer, soft drinks, hot dogs, potato chips) produce gases faster.
2. Medications, drugs, or alcohol.

3. Body composition – skinny, muscular, obese. (fat float quicker).
4. Age, weight, and height of victim.

5. Activity at the time of drowning (hunting, fishing, swimming, skiing).
6. Suicidal drowning – self weighting, stacked clothing.


7. Type and layers of clothing worn including footwear (heavier winterclothing of hip boots)

.
8. Gases produced in the intestinal tract are: methane, hydrogen sulfide, and


carbon dioxide. These gases are soluble in water and compressible.


9. Any visible body wounds – previous or after drowning?


10. Type of water: River, Quarry, Lake, Pond, Freshwater, Saltwater?


Body Float Information 2 6/22/2005


11. Bottom temperature – currents, spring fed, stagnate, polluted water


presents different problems for determining bacteria in intestinal tract.


12. Pressure exerted holding victim down varies with depth of water.


13. Any debris – stumps, trees, fence, fishing line that could cause


entanglement. Water sheds and most State Parks are flooded farm land.


14. Adult men and women on the bottom weigh about 6-15 lbs. negative.


Children weigh less and may not sink unless intentionally weighted. Some


kids will float face up.


15. Victims who are dead before they enter the water will not sink and float.


We had a victim travel 175 miles in 3 days who was thrown in the river


from a motorcycle accident.


16. Most adult victims will float face down due to the weight of arms and legs.


They float just like you recover a victim from the bottom face down.
 
They have released Kelly's body ? So Have they said the COD yet?
 
Even if the location was to have occurred I am asuming that it would have have taken time to accomplish this as upstream travel would have to take longer so....(not that i think it occurred) during the water search in which they put boats in correct ? And the dog searches. and the Joesph searches. Didnt some even even say from the air they could see the bottom? I heard mention of an airsearch but do know it as fact. How could a dog missed the scent a mile away when it was coming downstream? How would they have missed finding her ????


BBM.....I found this...is this what you were referring to Soulmagent?

I talked to the dive captin a few weeks ago . The way he explained it to me is that the water was shallow enough that you would be able to see a body in that area even if the water was coffee brown in color from the air. He said he searched the area very well and only found normal things on the bottom. for example tires , logs, trash etc.
 
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