Found Deceased VA - Nicole Clardy Mittendorff, 31, Woodbridge, 13 April 2016 - #2

[Lilibet]

Someone should post this to the findnicole facebook. I hadn't been there to see others still sharing. Sad, sad.

I just went to the Find Nicole page and I only see support. I think the comments mentioning the bad site have been removed since I was there last night, thankfully.

 

[tlcya]

I think that the owner of the website, and the host server of the website also need to be taken to task. I would be willing to speculate that when Nicole first learned about the online comments, she contacted the website and requested that the content be removed. Most likely, the website told her that without a police request, they were under no obligation to remove the remarks. Nicole probably asked police to intervene, and she was most likely told that there was nothing they could do. If she contacted the host server for the website, again she would have been given the run around. Every single person and business that allowed the online comments to remain on the website should be held responsible.

Possible but we may never know now if Nicole saw them or attempted to get them removed or pursue anything via law enforcement. That is what makes suicide such a difficult thing to cope with for those left behind. All the questions that are left. There are the usual ones to which loved ones often never get an answer. The Whys. The how could I not knows. This cyber bullying has simply added some more in this case.

Did she know? Did she try to resolve the matter in other ways? Did the bullying play a part in her decision to end her life?

Questions on top of questions.

 

[otto]

Possible but we may never know now if Nicole saw them or attempted to get them removed or pursue anything via law enforcement. That is what makes suicide such a difficult thing to cope with for those left behind. All the questions that are left. There are the usual ones to which loved ones often never get an answer. The Whys. The how could I not knows. This cyber bullying has simply added some more in this case.

Did she know? Did she try to resolve the matter in other ways? Did the bullying play a part in her decision to end her life?

Questions on top of questions.

If Nicole never saw the online remarks, then the online remarks have nothing to do with her suicide. However, why would there be an investigation into the bullying after her suicide if the remarks had nothing to do with her suicide?

"Fairfax County’s fire and rescue chief says his department is investigating accusations of bullying and harassment following the suicide of firefighter Nicole Mittendorff."

http://www.insidenova.com/headlines...cle_194f8adc-0967-11e6-adac-7b66f9a3e765.html

 

[tlcya]

Because they may have the same questions? And regardless if they were a factor or not, the behavior is completely unacceptable and should be investigated.

 

[SaraSue]

Possible but we may never know now if Nicole saw them or attempted to get them removed or pursue anything via law enforcement. That is what makes suicide such a difficult thing to cope with for those left behind. All the questions that are left. There are the usual ones to which loved ones often never get an answer. The Whys. The how could I not knows. This cyber bullying has simply added some more in this case.

Did she know? Did she try to resolve the matter in other ways? Did the bullying play a part in her decision to end her life?

Questions on top of questions.

I believe her family confirmed to a poster on here that she was indeed aware and that is why she deleted all of her social media.

People are reposting all over the Fairfax Fire & rescue Facebook page, sorry for the confusion. Her husband was commenting on the chief's post to the page this morning- that was what I meant.

 

[SaraSue]

If Nicole never saw the online remarks, then the online remarks have nothing to do with her suicide. However, why would there be an investigation into the bullying after her suicide if the remarks had nothing to do with her suicide?

"Fairfax County’s fire and rescue chief says his department is investigating accusations of bullying and harassment following the suicide of firefighter Nicole Mittendorff."

http://www.insidenova.com/headlines...cle_194f8adc-0967-11e6-adac-7b66f9a3e765.html

Because they've been brought directly to his attention. And more importantly the media/public's, thus forcing his hand and demanding action.

 

[tlcya]

I have avoided the social media on this case because after finding the bullying posts I wanted to stay away from anything that might be perpetuating the ugliness. What I saw was ugly enough.

So her family has confirmed that she was aware and upset by it. Thank you for that information.

How hard it must have been to walk around carrying all that. Rest in Peace Nicole.

 

[grsz11]

Because they've been brought directly to his attention. And more importantly the media/public's, thus forcing his hand and demanding action.

But it will be impossible to prove if any posts were made my actual employees and who.

 

[MargeGunderson]

I'm sure Nancy Grace is just the kind of attention the family wants. </sarcasm>

Well probably not now. If it is determined that the cyber bullying did lead to the suicide then they may at some point. It isn't unusual after the initial shock and grief passes for the family of a victim to channel their grief into a fight against the person or issue that contributed to the loss of their loved one.

 

[otto]

Because they may have the same questions? And regardless if they were a factor or not, the behavior is completely unacceptable and should be investigated.

I'm curious why we are questioning whether Nicole was aware of the online remarks and bullying prior to her suicide

"This news comes on the heels of concerns that she was a victim of bullying. On Saturday, Fire Chief Richard Bowers issued a statement regarding Nicole Mittendorff:

"I would like to take a minute to address the local web forum posts that so many of you have been discussing regarding Firefighter-Nicole Mittendorff. We at Fairfax Fire and Rescue are aware of the posts and are looking into the matter. I assure you that my department cannot and will not tolerate bullying of any kind. At this time, we are respecting the privacy of Firefighter-Paramedic Mittendorff's family, and providing support to the men and women of the Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department who are grieving under these challenging circumstances. We will thoroughly investigate this matter and take any appropriate actions needed. However, right now we ask that we be allowed to grieve the loss of one of our own."

http://wjla.com/news/local/concern-...refighter-found-dead-was-a-victim-of-bullying

"The postings began several years ago, not long after Mittendorf began her career with the Fairfax County Fire and Rescue department and Fairview Station 32. It&#8217;s not known if Mittendorff saw the postings, but McKinley thinks it&#8217;s likely. She&#8217;s concerned the cyber-bulling may have played a role in her death.

&#8220;If you already have other factors going on, you&#8217;re in a very stressful job. If you are feeling maligned and disrespected by the people you&#8217;re with, and your life depends on, I can imagine it can undermine your self-esteem,&#8221; said McKinley. &#8220;You can&#8217;t be immune to day in and day out being disrespected.&#8221; She said that the federal government requires constant training about sexual harassment and hostile workplace environments and suggested Fairfax could use more training."

http://www.statter911.com/2016/04/2...me-light-fairfax-county-firefighters-suicide/

 

[otto]

But it will be impossible to prove if any posts were made my actual employees and who.

I'm not convinced that it will be impossible to trace the actual identities of the people behind the remarks. Comments have an IP address.

 

[tlcya]

I'm curious why we are questioning whether Nicole was aware of the online remarks and bullying prior to her suicide

"This news comes on the heels of concerns that she was a victim of bullying. On Saturday, Fire Chief Richard Bowers issued a statement regarding Nicole Mittendorff:

"I would like to take a minute to address the local web forum posts that so many of you have been discussing regarding Firefighter-Nicole Mittendorff. We at Fairfax Fire and Rescue are aware of the posts and are looking into the matter. I assure you that my department cannot and will not tolerate bullying of any kind. At this time, we are respecting the privacy of Firefighter-Paramedic Mittendorff's family, and providing support to the men and women of the Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department who are grieving under these challenging circumstances. We will thoroughly investigate this matter and take any appropriate actions needed. However, right now we ask that we be allowed to grieve the loss of one of our own."

http://wjla.com/news/local/concern-...refighter-found-dead-was-a-victim-of-bullying

"The postings began several years ago, not long after Mittendorf began her career with the Fairfax County Fire and Rescue department and Fairview Station 32. It&#8217;s not known if Mittendorff saw the postings, but McKinley thinks it&#8217;s likely. She&#8217;s concerned the cyber-bulling may have played a role in her death.

&#8220;If you already have other factors going on, you&#8217;re in a very stressful job. If you are feeling maligned and disrespected by the people you&#8217;re with, and your life depends on, I can imagine it can undermine your self-esteem,&#8221; said McKinley. &#8220;You can&#8217;t be immune to day in and day out being disrespected.&#8221; She said that the federal government requires constant training about sexual harassment and hostile workplace environments and suggested Fairfax could use more training."

http://www.statter911.com/2016/04/2...me-light-fairfax-county-firefighters-suicide/

I have been unable to catch up with the latest news on this case in the last 24 hours - busy with real life responsibilities. thank you to you and others who have provided info that the bullying has been linked to her state of mind and recent articles are covering the bullying now.

 

[hazel0206]

Someone put a "Topo" map up or something like that, so I did look at it although no idea of directions of course.

So, the car park is to the South and trail to the North. Must thank you as it does give an idea of the location better. The topo map shows the "steepness" which was hard to picture not knowing that particular place. Easier to picture the trail and so forth now.

Still a very sad loss though and a waste of a young life. I feel deeply for her family at this time.

PFloydNVa68 said that the upper parking lot was isolated on 21 April, and that this was where the Cooper was found. I don't know if that was fact or because of PFloydNVa68's mis-read of what was happening. I have my reasons: I was in the area of Skyland on Saturday morning, April 16. I don't feel it is appropriate to say what I saw and reported to VSP yet. Please note that both the upper and lower White Oak parking lots are in Madison County. (Check out a map, please.)


On page 36 of this thread, cluciano63 says, in part:
"PFloydNVa68 states that Nicole's car was found in the UPPER parking lot of the White Oak Canyon Trail I.E. the parking lot adjacent to Skyline Drive . This is the complete opposite to the loaction that was widely reported in the media, the lower parking lot. I.E the parking lot off of Weakley Hollow Road.


This possible error had / has massive implications for the investigation. For a start, the upper parking lot can only be accessed via Skyline Drive and that would have meant Nicole's car must gone through a NPS entrance station. This would offer a whole new dimension to evidence gathering - CCTV, evidence from the entrance station staff, etc etc Plus, Nicole would have been driving Skyline Drive and not Weakley Hollow Road,. which completely shifts the potential pool of people that may have seen the car arrive.


With 100% respect. I am actually hoping PFloydNVa68 has made an error and the car was in fact in the lower parking lot (there are only 2 for the White Oak Canyon Trail) . Because if the car was in the upper lot then a lot of potential witnesses may have been missed and, it is to say the least, an incredibly big blunder by those releasing (wrong) information."


I agree. I have followed the press releases and this forum and do not see that the car location was pinpointed. I came in via Front Royal, and had to confront a ranger. I can't say what happens if one enters via, say, U.S. 211.


Minimoo (page 31 of this thread) had commented that


"Some previous thread writer thought she was found somewhere flat. I understand now it was "treacherous rocky terrain".


In what direction from the trail? Eg North or South West.


And are there any meadows or fields near there or below it perhaps for someone to maybe think flat or no heights."


I saw that comment, and joined websleuths to offer what I could. I am not an expert on using the forum, so my comment came not as a reply to minimoo but a random addition on page 32 of this second thread. That is, in response to the question about the terrain I joined to offer a topo map that I had sent in to VSP (earlier) with what I could offer having been in the Skyland area on Sarturday morning, 16 April. (Facts, because that's what I understood this forum was about --- sad smile).


So, minimoo, I ("someone") offered the topo map as "facts." I can't even begin solve your problem of where what was found because based on the news reports and this forum I can't say for sure where the Cooper was found.


On pg 36 minimoo says, evidently in response to my topo map,
"Someone put a "Topo" map up or something like that, so I did look at it although no idea of directions of course.


So, the car park is to the South and trail to the North. Must thank you as it does give an idea of the location better. The topo map shows the "steepness" which was hard to picture not knowing that particular place. Easier to picture the trail and so forth now."


...and minimoo, in that post, quotes SnappyPepper, who says,
"We don't know the direction from the trail,but based on the terrain it would likely be somewhere East of the trail, as to the west is flowing water that can't be crossed, the trail continues to the north, and the parking lot is to the South. This is a generalization of the directions but the trail runs "generally" north from the parking lot.


There are no meadows or fields in that area of the park. It's rocky, hilly, and thick forest all the way around."


Yes, that was the point in posting the topgrapical map: providing facts about the terrain in response to your (minimoo) question, in case you or a White Oak canyon trail user could come up with something (factual) helpful for VSP re: suicide or... something else.

Regarding directions (north-south), the top end of the topo map posted is northwards (you will see the Skyline Drive markings if you compare the snip with the online map at the link given and compare that with a larger Google Maps map of Virginia). Goodness.


Re:general facts - I repeat: I don't know that anyone has looked at the news accounts or photographs of parking areas shown on the news and positively ID'ed whether the car was found [at upper (near Skyland) or lower (near the parking lots for access to Old Rag trails)].


If y'all don't know how to interpret topo maps, then perhaps this following link will help, but it won't tell you where the female body later identified as Nicole was found, or the car was found. As I understand the news we are still without specific geographic coordinates for either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topographic_map


Then on page 36 of the forum, Night Shift says,
"PFloydNVa68 states that Nicole's car was found in the UPPER parking lot of the White Oak Canyon Trail I.E. the parking lot adjacent to Skyline Drive . This is the complete opposite to the loaction that was widely reported in the media, the lower parking lot. I.E the parking lot off of Weakley Hollow Road.


This possible error had / has massive implications for the investigation. For a start, the upper parking lot can only be accessed via Skyline Drive and that would have meant Nicole's car must gone through a NPS entrance station. This would offer a whole new dimension to evidence gathering - CCTV, evidence from the entrance station staff, etc etc Plus, Nicole would have been driving Skyline Drive and not Weakley Hollow Road,. which completely shifts the potential pool of people that may have seen the car arrive.


With 100% respect. I am actually hoping PFloydNVa68 has made an error and the car was in fact in the lower parking lot (there are only 2 for the White Oak Canyon Trail) . Because if the car was in the upper lot then a lot of potential witnesses may have been missed and, it is to say the least, an incredibly big blunder by those releasing (wrong) information."


Totally agree, Night Shift. Point well taken.

Perhaps Nicole was hovering in the Skyland area for a couple of days and only made her decision on Saturday morning? If her Cooper was found in the lower parking area Saturday evening, how long had it been there in the lower area? Or was the car found in the upper area, and was the rush o fnine police cars to the lower parking area only because it was the closest to the location where the final area of interest was? The account of the ME suggests it took some care in confirming identity. Someone could have moved the car and planted the note, as others in the thread have noted. The timeline is not clear.

Facts, facts, facts, facts, facts. Justice for Nicole and the family.


Sigh. I understand the emotion about the ME's conclusion for personal reasons which I won't bother with and if Nicole and others are bullied or slandered then that is worthy of calling attention to, <modsnip>

Facts, people. Facts.

 

[grsz11]

Hazel, your post was entirely too long to quote but I'm not sure what your point was. Bottom line, confusion on the location of the car had no impact on the search.

 

[Hoolovesasu]

I don't post here often so I hope I can get my point across without breaching any of the rules. The vile thread that has been referred to often in this situation was the first thing on a lot of minds when the news first broke of her missing. However no one wanted to bring attention to it because no one wanted to stir up those hateful rumors about someone who was so highly thought of amongst her friends and neighbors. I was initally told of the vile posting, targeting numerous women in the department (both career and volunteer) by someone with FCFD ties. This was long before this situation even occured/made the news. IMO I think the knowledge of this vile thread existing might have been one of the reasons the suicide note was kept quiet.

The FCFD members were told not to speak to the media and to keep quiet about the situation when news first broke. IMO this thread was common knowledge within the department and the chief acted too little too late. This whole situation has been heartbreaking.

ETA: This bullying of females does not seem to be limited to the website in question. It also is something that appears to be a problem from within IMO

 

[tlcya]

:welcome: to the conversation Hoo. My ex-husband was a firefighter in my area, now retired. Back when it was uncommon for females to be firefighters, our area was deciding whether to hire some female applicants. There were some hateful attitudes and comments made not from behind computer screens but in face to face conversations. Some of the worst came not from the firefighters, but from their wives. Amazing and sad to see how little has changed in 30 years.

 

[Snoopster]

I'm disturbed by this fact, actually.

As an avid trail runner, I see nothing unusual about calling in sick to work and driving 2 hours to run trails. It was alarming to me that the was found 300 yards from the trail, because being off trail a mile into a distance run *is* abnormal: to read that (without knowing about the suicide note), it immediately makes one think she was attacked -- and that's a scary thought for any female trail runner.

I don't understand why there was an appeal to the public to help find her if they had a suicide note. It doesn't make any sense to me.

Am I missing something?

I'm confused. Are you saying that you can be not well enough to go to work, yet ok to run trails?

 

[SCHMAE]

I'm confused. Are you saying that you can be not well enough to go to work, yet ok to run trails?

If she was feeling emotionally / mentally unwell then she could absolutely want to go out for a run to clear her head. Mooo! If she's an avid runner, she knows the mental benefits of it.

 

[Lilibet]

If she was feeling emotionally / mentally unwell then she could absolutely want to go out for a run to clear her head. Mooo! If she's an avid runner, she knows the mental benefits of it.

Some employers either openly encourage use of sick leave for a "mental health day" or have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. No link. Just word of mouth.

 

[grsz11]

Some employers either openly encourage use of sick leave for a "mental health day" or have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. No link. Just word of mouth.

Or some employees encourage mental health days regardless of what their employer thinks.[emoji6]