VA - Nicole Lovell, 13, Blacksburg, 27 January 2016 #2 *Arrests*

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Well (based on articles posted here today) it seems like she was telling the world about their relationship.

I'm confused though because I thought early on (when she was found), it was said no sexual assault was present?

Yes, I read no SA as well. Though, that can be upgraded as evidence warrants - they aren't releasing everything.

If there was no sex involved with their relationship, there was, perhaps, something else. Posing nude? Acting out some fantasy of DE that didn't involve actual sex?

I have no idea, of course.
 
The family should sue every website that didn't monitor the explicit messages between the 2. Jmo. Especially since the girl was only 13 and her responses from sites were from men or dam near men. Jmo

Well, do these SM sites have moderators who read every post/message? I have never heard of such a thing. I find it disgusting as well, but not sure I'd blame the website.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but parents are 100% responsible for the online actions of their kids.
 
from earlier today I seen where she withdrew her bond hearing request and she has hired another lawyer that is in the firm
of the first lawyer she hired. So now she has TWO lawyers. So I am not sure if its still on for tomorrow or not.

I read here, and on a news site that the hearing is tomorrow. However, why a second lawyer? Is the second one qualified for capital murder/the death penalty? It could be that they anticipate upgraded charges. We simply don't know yet.
 
The family should sue every website that didn't monitor the explicit messages between the 2. Jmo. Especially since the girl was only 13 and her responses from sites were from men or dam near men. Jmo

The age difference is illegal and the sites should have known the conversation between the two on per site was illegal as well. Jmo

Dex, this is good in theory but there are over 7 billion people in the world. A judge isn't going to find it practical for one company to have the technology and manpower to monitor this stuff. I wish, but it just won't ever happen. JMO.
 
I just read the FB post and will keep it at that.

I'm not taking up for Keepers, but could she have mistakenly been involved and too scared to tell the police right away?

Perhaps something went down like this:

DE calls Keepers and says he's at the ponds and needs help. He got into an accident. He doesn't specify what sort of accident and she goes to help him.

When she gets there she sees a knife, a lot of blood, and possibly a body. Perhaps she though DE Was going to stab her as well so she helped him.

Just a theory of course and it's probably wrong if they are saying the planning goes back to Jan 4th.

Hm. In addition to the fact that she's been charged with accessory before the fact (which they may not be able to prove, who knows) it would be foolish to call someone and then hold a knife to their throat and demand their help in concealing a dead body. The moment you take the knife off their throat, they're going to LE and your goose is cooked. If you need help concealing a crime you either sweet talk the accomplice and charm them, or you have something to hold over their head, like prior involvement or involvement in another crime.
 
Well, do these SM sites have moderators who read every post/message? I have never heard of such a thing. I find it disgusting as well, but not sure I'd blame the website.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but parents are 100% responsible for the online actions of their kids.

Forgive me. But your site is a business. Now if illegal activities occur on your site. Then that's on you for not monitoring your site for illegal activities. Jmo. You can't have a site for young teens looking to hook up while letting adults coerce these teens. Jmo.

That stuff is against the law. Jmo
 
Well (based on articles posted here today) it seems like she was telling the world about their relationship.

I'm confused though because I thought early on (when she was found), it was said no sexual assault was present?

If SA happened in the past but not that night I assume it would be hard to find evidence of that. It could have happened weeks ago
 
Beautiful insight into Nicole from Jane Vance. I didn't know that she worked at Nicole's school. For those that don't know, Jane was Morgan Harrington's professor and is very active in HSTNG.

http://m.collegiatetimes.com/opinio...c5e-c967-11e5-a254-bb69d6d0e511.html?mode=jqm

Thanks us just not enough for sharing this. I weep for all the little girls who will never grow up and especially for Nicole and her family. What a gentle heart.


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Well (based on articles posted here today) it seems like she was telling the world about their relationship.

I'm confused though because I thought early on (when she was found), it was said no sexual assault was present?

I wonder what evidence she would have had that they had an inappropriate relationship? (I'm not doubting for one minute that they did have an inappropriate relationship, just wondering about DE's overreaction to her indication she would make their relationship known). I don't know if there were digital footprints that indicated they had sex. Otherwise, it would seem VERY believable to a prosecutor or jury that she was making the whole thing up, based on her online presence of dramatics.

I am basing this opinion on the thought that he didn't have sex with her on Jan 27, that that kidnapping was purely for the purpose of killing her.

I'm surprised he felt he had to actually kill her to avoid prosecution. It seems all he would have to do is deny it and act a bit blindsided and empathetic for her.

It used to be that children who were sexually abused lived through it, because there was no real proof. At this point, sadly and horribly, abusers kill their victims to avoid prosecution because we now have digital and DNA evidence that would convict them. And conviction for molestation or rape would send them away for the same amount of time they'd get for murdering the victim anyway.

I don't know what the answer here is, and don't want to be appearing to defend the perps. It just seems like once a perp has sex with an underage child, there's no advantage to them not to murder the child. At least that way, they have a better chance of not getting caught. Awful.
 
Forgive me. But your site is a business. Now if illegal activities occur on your site. Then that's on you for not monitoring your site for illegal activities. Jmo. You can't have a site for young teens looking to hook up while letting adults coerce these teens. Jmo.

That stuff is against the law. Jmo

I think craigslist has set the precedent for the legal standard that you can't monitor everything that goes on online. You can't monitor every interaction - and the ones with Nicole weren't so egregous that they would have caught the eye of a screener, IMHO. She was flirting a lot with older guys, but there weren't posts where she listed her address and price for sex, obviously. When an adult offers a child for sex, on an internet website, I agree it's on the company to shut that down within a reasonable amount of time, but she was just a bubbly girl flirting all the time with guys on these sites. I may be wrong about what they have as evidence, but it seems to me there wasn't any real reason to shut her account down and hold the companies responsible.
 
I'm guessing here, but before they charge with SA I bet they want to make sure they have a STRONG case.
 
Just throwing this out there...

DE's family moved from WA clear across the country to MD around his junior year in high school. That's a tough time to uproot a teen with aspirations of going to college and all the pressures of the junior and senior year, SAT's, AP classes, college applications, finding someone to write rec. letters, etc. I wonder why the move? Was it a job transfer or could something have happens in WA with DE? If he had a troubled past as a juvenile would those records follow him to MD?

It just strikes me as odd to kill someone and there not be any signs from his past.

BBM

Sadly, that is not a guide even law enforcement or profilers can use. Over the years there has been heinous murders done by defendants who had no criminal history whatsoever and many of them were a lot older than DE and were very successful professionally.

I do believe DE had thought about killing someone for a very long time. It will be interesting to see where his computer searches took him beyond the predatory sites he went on that we are aware of now. Maybe he is like the thrill killer, Scott Dyleski, who was 16 and looked up to serial killers and thought they were heroes. Maybe this guy also kept a journal or had drawings depicting rapes and murders with a knife. Dyleski was also very intelligent.

Its not uncommon either for murderers to be above average intelligence.

As an aside:

I also believe Natalie Keepers was drawn to macabre fantasies as well. I don't think DE made her do anything she didn't want to do. I think she was all for the plot to murder Nicole that began to take hold on January 4th. That shows she too carefully premeditated this plot for three weeks along with DE.

I think LE has found out many things about both of them and they have evidence Keepers was in on this right along with DE. I think it will become known they both gravitated toward the same twisted ideations. Imo, LE has seen what NKs said to Nicole and how much she was a big part of this and that is why now she is charged with before and after the fact crimes. What they are learning about NKs is widening and becoming larger in scope now.

And that may change too when the forensic evidence comes back in. They may even find evidence tying her to the actual murder. I think she was up to her eyeballs in all of this. Maybe that is what DE meant when he said 'the truth will set me free.' Maybe she is the one who actually murdered Nicole. I wouldn't be the list bit surprised if she was the mastermind behind the plot. We have seen that several times where the female will talk a male into doing the actual murder for her but it was she who put the murder in motion to begin with. I think this case is fluid and will be changing in the next month or so. And if she was there when he murdered Nicole and was in the car with him when he abducted her then she really does need to be charged equally and in most states she would be. So we will see if the evidence takes them in a different direction.

Just because she happens to be a female doesn't ever make me feel she was forced to do any of this. As many trials/cases and stories I have kept up with, I know many females can be just as ruthless, cruel, viscous, and can also be a sexual deviant, along with being a murderer. In fact I feel she is like so many other females before her and she gladly teamed up willingly with a murderer.

Now will she try to blame it all on him? Of course she will, that is always predictable behavior when a female finds themselves in the criminal justice system looking at a long prison sentence. But I feel assured that the DA/LE have the evidence to disprove that repetitive excuse that women use all too often.

IMO
 
I think craigslist has set the precedent for the legal standard that you can't monitor everything that goes on online. You can't monitor every interaction - and the ones with Nicole weren't so aggregious that they would have caught the eye of a screener, IMHO. She was flirting a lot with older guys, but there weren't posts where she listed her address and price for sex, I'm guessing. When an adult offers a child for sex, on an internet website, I agree it's on the company to shut that down within a reasonable amount of time, but she was just a bubbly girl flirting all the time with guys on these sites. I may be wrong about what they have, but it seems to me there wasn't any real reason to shut her account down and hold the companies responsible.

And on at least one account she listed herself as 18. And what if a pedophile lists themself as 13. You would have to do a background check on everyone that ever signed up for anything.
 
Forgive me. But your site is a business. Now if illegal activities occur on your site. Then that's on you for not monitoring your site for illegal activities. Jmo. You can't have a site for young teens looking to hook up while letting adults coerce these teens. Jmo.

That stuff is against the law. Jmo

Generally, people who post are responsible for what they post. Not the website.
 
The family should sue every website that didn't monitor the explicit messages between the 2. Jmo. Especially since the girl was only 13 and her responses from sites were from men or dam near men. Jmo

The age difference is illegal and the sites should have known the conversation between the two on per site was illegal as well. Jmo
Shouldn't the families be monitoring what their minor children are doing on the internet?
 
Yes, I read no SA as well. Though, that can be upgraded as evidence warrants - they aren't releasing everything.

If there was no sex involved with their relationship, there was, perhaps, something else. Posing nude? Acting out some fantasy of DE that didn't involve actual sex?

I have no idea, of course.

No evidence of sexual assault doesn't necessarily mean no sex.
 
Just throwing this out there...

DE's family moved from WA clear across the country to MD around his junior year in high school. That's a tough time to uproot a teen with aspirations of going to college and all the pressures of the junior and senior year, SAT's, AP classes, college applications, finding someone to write rec. letters, etc. I wonder why the move? Was it a job transfer or could something have happens in WA with DE? If he had a troubled past as a juvenile would those records follow him to MD?

It just strikes me as odd to kill someone and there not be any signs from his past.

After reading today's revelations, that he killed her to prevent her from disclosing their inappropriate relationship, I'd have to say he wouldn't necessarily have had any signs from his past that he might commit murder. It seems clear they DID have an inappropriate relationship, and now he's in panic mode and doesn't want to spend the rest of his life in prison. That's a rational motive for murder, as sad as it is for Nicole. Doubly sad.

If this were a thrill killing, I agree there should have been HUGE warning signs before. It appears this is a self-defense killing, after he had a very inappropriate relationship.

I still don't get Natalie's involvement, at all.
 
I read here, and on a news site that the hearing is tomorrow. However, why a second lawyer? Is the second one qualified for capital murder/the death penalty? It could be that they anticipate upgraded charges. We simply don't know yet.

I read up on her two lawyers today. Apparently, the most recently added one (Robertson) was the Director of Legal Counsel at VT at one time. Maybe he was added on to the case because he's had experience dealing with college students. Just a guess?

ETA: I also browsed the Twitter account of the first lawyer (Olin) retained. On the 27th, the day Nicole was reported missing, he retweeted her missing poster on his feed. And then just a few days later, he was hired to represent a client who has been charged as an accessory to her murder.

Life can be ironic in such a cruel way sometimes.
 
Wow! There are so many theories about the "whys" in this horrible crime. I find it hard to believe a guy would kill a young girl because "she was going to expose their relationship." The article mentioning this theory came out before the COD was revealed, so it is a few days old.

I do not feel there is a plausible reason why either accused perpetrated this murder, at least not to anyone who would ever be prone to kill someone over such a flimsy excuse. In other words, there were already very serious issues that defined DE's behavior as abnormal, making it impossible for a sane person to understand his motives.
 
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