VA - Nicole Lovell, 13, Blacksburg, 27 January 2016 #4 *Arrests*

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I do think (at the moment) that NK was the mastermind, but I don't think she killed Nicole out of jealousy. I think she killed as a violent expression of her own self-hatred. I think she put all her emotions into baiting and taunting Nicole online and then it all built up to the murder.

I don't see DE as having the charisma to lure NK into a plot. I do see HER as having the qualities and experience to lure him. By experience, I mean her stage and stage management experience - she knows how to "put on a show" to put it one way. She knows how to manipulate false identities, as that is part of performing, and she knows how to organize a plot, as that is part of stage management and directing. She also knows about being a young teenager who cut herself, was bullied, felt alienated from peers....she knew exactly how to appeal to Nicole online and lure her in more than DE did.

I honestly don't think DE was a pedophile interested in Nicole. I think that was a ruse conjured up by NK. I'm not sure of his involvement just yet - and I am certainly NOT defending him in the slightest - but I see NK as the leader of this duo, and I think she enjoyed every minute of it. I think DE was in it for different reasons, though I don't know what they were yet.

Of course, my theory could be way off base. But from what we know now, I see NK as the person who came up with the plot and put everything in place to make it happen. I think she is deeply, deeply troubled and this plot was full of rage at herself, her peers, and her family.

JMOpinion at the moment. I'll readily change my mind if the evidence proves contrary to my hunches.


My theory is very similar to yours (NK mastermind), except in mine, I think that DE "inadvertently" became a pedophile. What I mean by that is that, I think he reached out online for someone (not specifically targeting a kid), and found Nicole who was very receptive. He wasn't specifically targeting a child. Maybe he figured it out on his own later on. But, even though he may have not known she was 13 initially, he groomed her anyway, and used her for what he wanted (nude pictures, etc).

Then, the rest of my theory currently goes something like this: After he got what he wanted, he got bored. He wanted to move on. Or it is possible, he figured out at this point that she was a child and thought, "oh s**t, what did I just get myself into"). Nicole in the meantime, thought she was in a "relationship". She's 13, and longing for a boyfriend. She talks about running away with him. She thinks he is really into her since she shared something so intimate with him and doesn't realize he does not feel the same way. Nicole kept pursuing him on line. He didn't know how to shake her off. DE makes a comment about this to NK ("like what is this girl's deal, how do I get rid of her?"), or possibly NK was snooping on DE's phone and uncovers messages Nicole is sending DE. NK starts doing her own sleuthing on Nicole. And what she discovers reminds NK of her own 13 year old self and she is disgusted and hates what she sees. The similarities are too stunning, and it is like reliving her own 13 year old troubles all over again. She may possibly even hate that Nicole is communicating with "her" guy. She starts to come up with a plot. But the plot she shares with DE at Cookout isn't necessarily the same plot that is going on inside her head. Maybe it is the medication making her think strange thoughts. Maybe she is just evil. But, possibly she tells DE that she'll talk to Nicole. Maybe she tells him she'll confront Nicole and pretend that she's DE's girlfriend and Nicole better back off. And then she throws in "oh, by the way, can we stop at Walmart. I need some stuff." So, DE gets on board with agreeing to arrange a get together, and they go shopping. Nicole meantime, ever hopeful, thinks it's a date, and doesn't see what is coming. And, once DE realizes what is really going on in NK's plan, it's too late. He's in too deep. Can't go to the police now. HE was the last contact. It was HIS car. He picked up Nicole that night. NK and DE are probably on video footage at Walmart together. And, there's evidence HE had prior inappropriate/sexual contact with Nicole. In his mind, he's trapped between a rock and a hard place. He feels the better alternative of the two is to proceed and try his best to help clean up etc.

I just don't see a scenario (B) where he was the mastermind or manipulator. Based on my impression of him, I don't think he would either want or need NK to get involved. He strikes me as, intelligent, arrogant, and a bit of a perfectionist (I'm basing that off that HS video interview of him). I think he physically could have handled the task of murdering and moving Nicole all by himself. He's an athlete after all. I just don't think his arrogant mind, and his quest for perfection, would let anyone else be involved if it was his desire all along to lure and/or murder Nicole. I'm pretty sure he would not risk the potential for a screw up by bringing in someone else. I don't think the idea of killing Nicole was ever his idea. He had to know too many things would immediately tie him back to Nicole. I think he got manipulated into it by NK. I do think, though, that both are responsible for the murder.

ALL just conjecture on my part. And I'm sure there are some flaws in my theory. But that's where I am at now.
 
My thoughts on the NK's use of Prozac. Last time I checked Prozac didn't confuse someone on the rights and wrongs in life. Especially murder. I personally have struggled with depression on and off. I still knew right from wrong. NO matter how blue I was feeling. JMO
 
My thoughts on the NK's use of Prozac. Last time I checked Prozac didn't confuse someone on the rights and wrongs in life. Especially murder. I personally have struggled with depression on and off. I still knew right from wrong. NO matter how blue I was feeling. JMO

Excellent post! I'm on Cymbalta. Have never tried Prozac. Several others made me feel extremely weird, but I was told I was started off on too high a dose. However, I never ever felt any SSRI made me not know right from wrong.
 
Maybe each (DE and NK) were manipulating one another.

Speculation:

Maybe NK was turning up everywhere DE was because she was into him and he was not that into her beyond friends. He thought he was manipulating her and using her affection for him to get her to assist in permanently getting rid of some girl (NL) he described as a stalker or someone who was causing him troubles.

Maybe all the while NK considered herself to be the manipulator, now DE needs her for something exciting and dark and secretive. A secret they will share that will bind them intimately til they go to their graves. Leverage to move the relationship to where it hadn't gone yet.

Who knows.

Will be very interesting to see more info and evidence over time. Right now there is so little to go on many theories are possibles. This one is just one I am kicking around and I am not attached to it per se.

The only person who said NK was always showing up unexpectedly near DE was that much older dude, "Alex", who I thought we all agreed was an attention seeker and a non-reliable witness. I'm not even sure how well he and DE knew each other. I don't think we can accept anything he has said as true or factual. That said, we do not know if NK actually was stalking or following DE around campus or online or if she was truly obsessed with him.
 
Excellent post! I'm on Cymbalta. Have never tried Prozac. Several others made me feel extremely weird, but I was told I was started off on too high a dose. However, I never ever felt any SSRI made me not know right from wrong.
I think a lawyer just sees it as another excuse to add to the list.
 
I'm ready to post my theory now: DE had met NK thru tutoring her in math. NK doesn't really have any friends, so she latches onto DE. He probably is flattered to a degree, even though he is aware she is stalking him. He is having an online relationship with NL, but she is childish and keeps talking and posting, bragging to her friends. DE is not happy with that and wants her to stop, but she wont' and they argue about it. Then the college students go home for x-mas and either DE or NK sees that NL is not posting, and reach out to her other online friends to ask why. they are told her Dad is on to NL's online activites and took her phone and computer privileges away. DE is like, oh no, is he going to get aggressive about this, cause DE has ambitions in life and don't want his activities with minors to mess that up. He contacts NK and asks her to return to school early and tells her that the LG is causing him problems. NK says, oh no, we need to shut her up. I can help you. We can do this and no one will ever know. They cook up this plan, at Cook-out no less, and set it into motion.
DE thinks he will get rid of his young problem, NK thinks this will make her more valuable to her crush, and both are stupid enough to think they will get away with it.

MOO only. Still open to other info, can't wait for next court date.

My theory is very similar to yours (NK mastermind), except in mine, I think that DE "inadvertently" became a pedophile. What I mean by that is that, I think he reached out online for someone (not specifically targeting a kid), and found Nicole who was very receptive. He wasn't specifically targeting a child. Maybe he figured it out on his own later on. But, even though he may have not known she was 13 initially, he groomed her anyway, and used her for what he wanted (nude pictures, etc).

Then, the rest of my theory currently goes something like this: After he got what he wanted, he got bored. He wanted to move on. Or it is possible, he figured out at this point that she was a child and thought, "oh s**t, what did I just get myself into"). Nicole in the meantime, thought she was in a "relationship". She's 13, and longing for a boyfriend. She talks about running away with him. She thinks he is really into her since she shared something so intimate with him and doesn't realize he does not feel the same way. Nicole kept pursuing him on line. He didn't know how to shake her off. DE makes a comment about this to NK ("like what is this girl's deal, how do I get rid of her?"), or possibly NK was snooping on DE's phone and uncovers messages Nicole is sending DE. NK starts doing her own sleuthing on Nicole. And what she discovers reminds NK of her own 13 year old self and she is disgusted and hates what she sees. The similarities are too stunning, and it is like reliving her own 13 year old troubles all over again. She may possibly even hate that Nicole is communicating with "her" guy. She starts to come up with a plot. But the plot she shares with DE at Cookout isn't necessarily the same plot that is going on inside her head. Maybe it is the medication making her think strange thoughts. Maybe she is just evil. But, possibly she tells DE that she'll talk to Nicole. Maybe she tells him she'll confront Nicole and pretend that she's DE's girlfriend and Nicole better back off. And then she throws in "oh, by the way, can we stop at Walmart. I need some stuff." So, DE gets on board with agreeing to arrange a get together, and they go shopping. Nicole meantime, ever hopeful, thinks it's a date, and doesn't see what is coming. And, once DE realizes what is really going on in NK's plan, it's too late. He's in too deep. Can't go to the police now. HE was the last contact. It was HIS car. He picked up Nicole that night. NK and DE are probably on video footage at Walmart together. And, there's evidence HE had prior inappropriate/sexual contact with Nicole. In his mind, he's trapped between a rock and a hard place. He feels the better alternative of the two is to proceed and try his best to help clean up etc.

I just don't see a scenario (B) where he was the mastermind or manipulator. Based on my impression of him, I don't think he would either want or need NK to get involved. He strikes me as, intelligent, arrogant, and a bit of a perfectionist (I'm basing that off that HS video interview of him). I think he physically could have handled the task of murdering and moving Nicole all by himself. He's an athlete after all. I just don't think his arrogant mind, and his quest for perfection, would let anyone else be involved if it was his desire all along to lure and/or murder Nicole. I'm pretty sure he would not risk the potential for a screw up by bringing in someone else. I don't think the idea of killing Nicole was ever his idea. He had to know too many things would immediately tie him back to Nicole. I think he got manipulated into it by NK. I do think, though, that both are responsible for the murder.

ALL just conjecture on my part. And I'm sure there are some flaws in my theory. But that's where I am at now.

I like both of these theories! I totally get that NK could have had a separate plan from DE's plan, and yes I think they were both stupid enough to think they could get away with it.
 
We often hear that some molesters were once victims themselves. This could explain how NK came to be involved. It may also explain her history of cutting.
 
They may not have been able to do it as planned if she fought back. People fight HARD! I know for a fact.

ETA - I know this as the fighter, not attacker

Also, as a mental health professional, I can say that self harm is a personal thing, it does not involve others. NK cutting herself does not necessarily correlate with her cutting someone else. Yes, some people who engage in self harm can be violent, just as people who do not, can. But there are also people who self harm that are gentle and kind towards others. I don't self harm, I just want to inform people, so there aren't false assumptions being made. ;)

:tyou: Good to know!
 
From what I understand that Kik app does not keep track of OR store a data-log of messages they disappear kinda like the photos on snapchat. I am not positive how these apps work. Seems if there isnt a screen shot taken information is lost. If Kik was the main communication base between DE and NL then there is a chance not much if any messages exist.


THIS MAY HELP SOME UNDERSTAND.

"The service has developed a reputation as a tool for sexting, because of its privacy controls and its anonymity -- users can communicate without revealing their real names or phone numbers. Kik has released guides for parents and law enforcement that encourage responsible use of the application, but accountability is difficult. Kik does not track the content of messages or the phone numbers of users, making it difficult for police to find identifying information in child *advertiser censored* cases."
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2015/06/westfield_police_warn_against.html

I'm not a tech expert by any means. But possibly one of you is.

Could either DE or Nicole's phones have been set up so that the data from this KIK app (or other ones they may have been using) be automatically saved to "the cloud"?

And, if so, would it be possible for LE to be able to retrieve specific conversation information from I Cloud via their I tunes account, for example, without actually having the phone?

If there is a tech expert here, can someone explain?
 
I think a lawyer just sees it as another excuse to add to the list.

Oh no doubt! It's worked before so why not try it. [emoji53] ugh.


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Ok then, according to DE's own statement, he picked Nicole up at her window, gave her a side hug BEFORE THEY DROVE OFF TO PICK UP KEEPERS. So DE is placing NK is the car with them before the child was murdered.

I think both DE and NK were present when the murder happened, what do you other ws's think?

Funny how perception is different with each reader. :) I got that it was saying that he gave her a side hug, then HE left to go to Keepers. Didn't say anything about taking Nicole with him.But I am inclined he did take her with him. I didn't get he was saying that he took Nicole to Keepers place which would have been her dorm.
 
Quote Originally Posted by passionflower View Post

why did DE say 'truth will set me free'?

What? You think he's just going to say, "I'm a cold blooded murderer and I totally just wrecked my promising life."?

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I think it's because it was NK's idea and she did the actual knife work (whether throat cutting or stabbing) and he is naïve enough to think he can just tell that and NK will admit it.
I think being locked up for a few days or weeks will make anyone, no matter how naïve, grow up quick.
 
My theory is very similar to yours (NK mastermind), except in mine, I think that DE "inadvertently" became a pedophile. What I mean by that is that, I think he reached out online for someone (not specifically targeting a kid), and found Nicole who was very receptive. He wasn't specifically targeting a child. Maybe he figured it out on his own later on. But, even though he may have not known she was 13 initially, he groomed her anyway, and used her for what he wanted (nude pictures, etc).

Then, the rest of my theory currently goes something like this: After he got what he wanted, he got bored. He wanted to move on. Or it is possible, he figured out at this point that she was a child and thought, "oh s**t, what did I just get myself into"). Nicole in the meantime, thought she was in a "relationship". She's 13, and longing for a boyfriend. She talks about running away with him. She thinks he is really into her since she shared something so intimate with him and doesn't realize he does not feel the same way. Nicole kept pursuing him on line. He didn't know how to shake her off. DE makes a comment about this to NK ("like what is this girl's deal, how do I get rid of her?"), or possibly NK was snooping on DE's phone and uncovers messages Nicole is sending DE. NK starts doing her own sleuthing on Nicole. And what she discovers reminds NK of her own 13 year old self and she is disgusted and hates what she sees. The similarities are too stunning, and it is like reliving her own 13 year old troubles all over again. She may possibly even hate that Nicole is communicating with "her" guy. She starts to come up with a plot. But the plot she shares with DE at Cookout isn't necessarily the same plot that is going on inside her head. Maybe it is the medication making her think strange thoughts. Maybe she is just evil. But, possibly she tells DE that she'll talk to Nicole. Maybe she tells him she'll confront Nicole and pretend that she's DE's girlfriend and Nicole better back off. And then she throws in "oh, by the way, can we stop at Walmart. I need some stuff." So, DE gets on board with agreeing to arrange a get together, and they go shopping. Nicole meantime, ever hopeful, thinks it's a date, and doesn't see what is coming. And, once DE realizes what is really going on in NK's plan, it's too late. He's in too deep. Can't go to the police now. HE was the last contact. It was HIS car. He picked up Nicole that night. NK and DE are probably on video footage at Walmart together. And, there's evidence HE had prior inappropriate/sexual contact with Nicole. In his mind, he's trapped between a rock and a hard place. He feels the better alternative of the two is to proceed and try his best to help clean up etc.

I just don't see a scenario (B) where he was the mastermind or manipulator. Based on my impression of him, I don't think he would either want or need NK to get involved. He strikes me as, intelligent, arrogant, and a bit of a perfectionist (I'm basing that off that HS video interview of him). I think he physically could have handled the task of murdering and moving Nicole all by himself. He's an athlete after all. I just don't think his arrogant mind, and his quest for perfection, would let anyone else be involved if it was his desire all along to lure and/or murder Nicole. I'm pretty sure he would not risk the potential for a screw up by bringing in someone else. I don't think the idea of killing Nicole was ever his idea. He had to know too many things would immediately tie him back to Nicole. I think he got manipulated into it by NK. I do think, though, that both are responsible for the murder.

ALL just conjecture on my part. And I'm sure there are some flaws in my theory. But that's where I am at now.

Hi tootired. I really like your theory. The only thing is, when in the act of carrying out the plan did DE and NK go to Walmart and purchase the shovel? Correct me if I'm wrong fellow WS's, but didn't DE and NK go to two separate Walmart's and at the first one purchase a shovel, and at the second one purchase cleaning supplies? If DE didn't know that NK was thinking Murder, then what the heck did he think while he and NK were browsing in the garden dept of Walmart and picking out a shovel? It has not been clarified yet as to exactly what type of shovel they purchased, but I doubt it was a trowel, and I doubt it was a snow shovel, but I suppose it could have been the latter since it had just snowed a few days prior to the murder. Did LE recover the shovel? Do you think it was in the trunk of DE's car? Do you think they ditched it some place after the murder? They didn't ditch the minion blanket!
 
Funny how perception is different with each reader. :) I got that it was saying that he gave her a side hug, then HE left to go to Keepers. Didn't say anything about taking Nicole with him.But I am inclined he did take her with him. I didn't get he was saying that he took Nicole to Keepers place which would have been her dorm.

News stories all got that line slightly different. I suspect DE was hit with texting evidence he was at Nicole's. His last message probably said "I'm here" and she replied "I'll be right out." Or they triangulated cell towers and put him nearby at the time of an unknown final message. I think he was trapped by police and had to admit being present and downplayed it as best he could. Side hug and then left alone to see Keepers who he expected to provide an alibi. I doubt he admitted Nicole going with him in any form. Reporters just misinterpreted the prosecutor. If he was expecting an alibi that would also explain his "truth shall set me free" statement.
 
Many young girls now will do ANYTHING to get or keep a boy. They get pregnant on purpose (that one is as old as the hills), they will do crimes, lie, run-a-way, etc.
Both of these girls seem to have viewed themselves as losers and determined to have a boy in their life.
I know a young girl who, in the car when her boyfriend got busted with drugs (not pot, hardcore stuff) told LE it was hers, cause boyfriend told her they would go easier on her than him. She was prosecuted to the fullest extent and still stayed with the boy. Then she came up pregnant and he dumped her. Then the baby was born with severe handicaps and he refused to even come and visit her. Finally, she grew up and burned his azz for all she could get, but regrettably her life would never be fully recovered.
For me personally, I find it hard to understand how a 13 so yr old could be trusting to someone she met online, don't they watch TV??? But I am from a different era, and if I came up single now, I'm fairly certain I wouldn't be on EHarmony looking for dates.
 
Yeah note he did not say, "I did not kill Nicole". He just said the truth shall set him free. If you did not murder a child, wouldn't you deny it over and over again?
 
Tumblr is more photo sharing of things you like and blogging. Fashion, hair, makeup. At least the ones I follow. It's not instant social media like kik and FB.

I'm trying to think of other possible social sites that we may have missed. I know Tumblr is popular. Has anybody found anything there? It would seem a likely place for teens to post.
 
For me personally, I find it hard to understand how a 13 so yr old could be trusting to someone she met online, don't they watch TV??? But I am from a different era, and if I came up single now, I'm fairly certain I wouldn't be on EHarmony looking for dates.

I don't think they watch TV so much these days. They watch Instagram, SnapChat, YouTube, etc. Perhaps that is why they're more trusting of internet strangers than us adults. They feel they know them when they really don't.
 
Anyone have a theory about why LE booked DE immediately with 1st degree murder and NK with lesser. Not because of her story. Has to be evidence.
NK had blanket, cleaning supplies and admitted being involved with planning, moving body and cleaning........
what separates the charges?
Wonder IF (speculating) DE has wounds from the knife and fingernails DNA. witness? more than just texts? photos maybe taken by someone?
 
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