VA - Nicole Lovell, 13, Blacksburg, 27 January 2016 #4 *Arrests*

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Anyone have a theory about why LE booked DE immediately with 1st degree murder and NK with lesser. Not because of her story. Has to be evidence.
NK had blanket, cleaning supplies and admitted being involved with planning, moving body and cleaning........
what separates the charges?
Wonder IF (speculating) DE has wounds from the knife and fingernails DNA. witness? more than just texts? photos maybe taken by someone?

It could be a strategy to play them off each other. I think they want DE to be livid that NK is not also charged with murder and then wait for him to go off on a tangent as to why.
 
HD63 great question about the shovel........yes IIRC they did go to 2 walmarts ......I wondered why they had not bought what they needed as to cleaning supplies in their plan...........wait til the middle of the night? and what kind of cleaning supplies..............bleach for DNA ???
 
HD63 great question about the shovel........yes IIRC they did go to 2 walmarts ......I wondered why they had not bought what they needed as to cleaning supplies in their plan...........wait til the middle of the night? and what kind of cleaning supplies..............bleach for DNA ???

It sounds like they ran into a problem they hadn't planned for (blood in the trunk). If they really plotted in advance, why not have the trunk lined with a tarp? Or wrap the body in plastic? As you said, they thought to get a shovel in advance but nothing else? This leads to another question. Where's the shovel?
 
Just wanted to share some information I read about Self-harm. And to put it right up front, I understand that many, many times it is done as a coping mechanism for completely normal teens.
But at times apparently it can be associated with mental health conditions and I found it very interesting.

"Mental illness

Although some people who self-harm do not suffer from any forms of recognised mental illness,[SUP][27][/SUP] many people experiencing various forms of mental ill-health do have a higher risk of self-harm. The key areas of illness which exhibit an increased risk include autism spectrum disorders,[SUP][34][/SUP][SUP][35][/SUP] borderline personality disorder, bipolar disorder,[SUP][36][/SUP] depression,[SUP][14][/SUP][SUP][37][/SUP] phobias,[SUP][14][/SUP] and conduct disorders.[SUP][38][/SUP] Schizophrenia may also be a contributing factor for self-harm. Those diagnosed with schizophrenia have a high risk of suicide, which is particularly greater in younger patients as they may not have an insight into the serious effects that the illness can have on their lives.[SUP][39][/SUP] Substance abuse is also considered a risk factor[SUP][10][/SUP] as are some personal characteristics such as poor problem-solving skills and impulsivity.[SUP][10][/SUP] There are parallels between self-harm and Münchausen syndrome, a psychiatric disorder in which individuals feign illness or trauma.[SUP][40][/SUP] There may be a common ground of inner distress culminating in self-directed harm in a Münchausen patient. However, a desire to deceive medical personnel in order to gain treatment and attention is more important in Münchausen's than in self-harm.[SUP][40][/SUP]

Psychological factors

Abuse during childhood is accepted as a primary social factor increasing the incidence of self-harm,[SUP][41][/SUP] as is bereavement,[SUP][42][/SUP] and troubled parental or partner relationships.[SUP][10][/SUP][SUP][15][/SUP] Factors such as war, poverty, and unemployment may also contribute.[SUP][14][/SUP][SUP][43][/SUP][SUP][44][/SUP] Self-harm is frequently described as an experience of depersonalisation or a dissociative state.[SUP][45][/SUP] As many as 70% of individuals with borderline personality disorder engage in self-harm.[SUP][46][/SUP] An estimated 30% of individuals with autism spectrum disorders engage in self-harm at some point, including eye-poking, skin-picking, hand-biting, and head-banging.[SUP][34][/SUP][SUP][35]"

From:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-harm
[/SUP]
 
Here are enlargements of DE's mugshots. I just took the ones from the jail website and upped the resolution in PhotoShop. Cropped them. Ran auto contrast/level/color. As previously noted, there does seem to be some bruising on the nose but look at the place in the profile shot. Sure looks like a fingernail cut, too. Lots of red around it that isn't quite so noticeable before adjustments, but is in the original.

DE-1a.jpg
DE-2a.jpg
 
So am I but I use right hand for all activities other than writing eating and smoking. Lots of southpaws are ambidextrous. JMO

The interesting bit will be if DE is right-handed but some wounds were made by a leftie.
 
why did DE say 'truth will set me free'?

I'm currently following the theory "A" (NK mastermind, manipulated DE into it)

I believe he said it as he trying to justifying his actions. In his mind, he is excusing what he did because it wasn't his plan, and he was put up to it by someone else. I think it is possible he didn't know Nicole was 13 initially either. As a result of these two things, he believes he has grounds to deflect all or part of the blame to others, and may honestly think a jury will be sympathetic to him. He is unable to accept the reality of the situation he's now in. I bet in his mind, he can find an excuse for anything and everything.
 
Anyone have a theory about why LE booked DE immediately with 1st degree murder and NK with lesser. Not because of her story. Has to be evidence.
NK had blanket, cleaning supplies and admitted being involved with planning, moving body and cleaning........
what separates the charges?
Wonder IF (speculating) DE has wounds from the knife and fingernails DNA. witness? more than just texts? photos maybe taken by someone?

Good questions. I would suspect the text messages, possibly wounds from a struggle, possibly witnesses for him but not for her. If they have the knife, maybe his fingerprints on it? Other forensics will take time to come back so they can't charge her yet. jmo
 
The Truth Will set you Free
What is the truth that you need to speak? How can you begin to cope with that truth? More importantly, how can you be patient through the process of birthing the truth? What is going right in your life and what could be going more right?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-addiction-connection/201408/the-truth-will-set-you-free

The Truth will NOT set you FREE
“We do not see the world as it is. We see the world as we are.” This quote has been attributed to both the Talmud and Anaïs Nin (although an actual citation for neither quote can be found). This quote summarizes the idea that truth, the truth that one perceives, is subjective and can be wrong.

We have long been taught that the truth will set us free, and that seeking the truth is a worthy goal. What if there is no absolute truth? What if there are just degrees of truth (or lies) that we tell ourselves? What if, as some insightful, anonymous person once purported, “People tell themselves stories, and then pour their lives into the stories they tell”?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-second-noble-truth/201205/the-truth-will-not-set-you-free


Two different psychological approaches to DE's "truth" statement. Interesting to say the least. Although, I am one who is fascinated by the human psychology.
 
For some reason I am lead to believe Nicole's parents have been divorced for several years. Some people here get really testy if you bring up anything about her home life. They think it's off-limits. But this is a murder investigation and it's logical people would be curious about her home life. They should be.

From social media, it seemed she lived with her mother and visited her father. Her father recently remarried. Both parents knew about her social media and told her to stop talking to older guys and even took her phone away.

<modsnip>
 
Yeah note he did not say, "I did not kill Nicole". He just said the truth shall set him free. If you did not murder a child, wouldn't you deny it over and over again?
He said, "I believe the truth can set me free."

Someone pointed this out yesterday. I think it's very important not to misquote!!!
 
Hi tootired. I really like your theory. The only thing is, when in the act of carrying out the plan did DE and NK go to Walmart and purchase the shovel? Correct me if I'm wrong fellow WS's, but didn't DE and NK go to two separate Walmart's and at the first one purchase a shovel, and at the second one purchase cleaning supplies? If DE didn't know that NK was thinking Murder, then what the heck did he think while he and NK were browsing in the garden dept of Walmart and picking out a shovel? It has not been clarified yet as to exactly what type of shovel they purchased, but I doubt it was a trowel, and I doubt it was a snow shovel, but I suppose it could have been the latter since it had just snowed a few days prior to the murder. Did LE recover the shovel? Do you think it was in the trunk of DE's car? Do you think they ditched it some place after the murder? They didn't ditch the minion blanket!

OOh, yeah. Forgot about timing of the shovel purchase. I knew there were flaws in my theory!! I had initially assumed the shovel was purchased on trip #2 (after the fact). But that is not right. It sounds like they did get it on trip #1. So, maybe DE became convinced in NK's plan earlier on in it than I had assumed.

And, I don't think we know specifically what type of shovel it was. But, yes, no matter what the type, that should have struck him as odd if he wasn't yet aware of the plan, unless NK was maybe participating in a planned community service event to shovel out the local elderly who may been still snowed in after the snowstorm. Doubtful. But a possibility none the less.

Can someone familiar with the local terrain and that time frame remind me, wouldn't the ground have been frozen anyway in late January? Or at least extremely difficult to dig? From the reports I saw on TV, it didn't even seem that they actually used a shovel at all. Unless the plan was to use the shovel to knock her out first?

And, I have not seen anything official to confirm that a shovel has or has not been recovered.
 
They might have tried to use the shovel but then realized the ground was too hard. So they just dumped her and quickly got out of there. :(
 
What do you all think, do they now sit in their cells and think "My God what have I done?!!" Regret? Remorse?
 
I have to agree with some other posters that based on what we know right now, it's possible that NK was the mastermind behind the plan to murder Nicole. I think DE went to her for advice and to vent after fear of Nicole outing their relationship and the consequences he could face as a result and I believe NK planted the seed to murder her.

What really disturbs me and leads me further to this opinion, is that according to the arrest warrant, NK began actively planning this murder with DE on January 4. The fact that after all this planning, a knife and stabbing was the chosen method, speaks volumes to me. I believe NK chose this method and I would not be suprised if she was present at the actual murder or inflicted the fatal wound(s). So far, the prosecutor said the cause of death was "stabbing" but didn't specify the number of wounds so I'm not sure if it was one fatal wound like a slit throat, or multiple wounds, or both. Regardless, stabbing someone to death is extremely messy and very personal. It inflicts extreme pain and makes me physically ill to think about. If they had been planning since January 4th, why would this be the method they chose?

One theory I have (which will prob change within the next hour), is that DE agreed with NK that murdering Nicole was his only option to avoid Nicole exposing their relationship and "ruining his life" and publicly humiliating him if charges were pressed against him. I would not be suprised if the original plan was for DE to strangle Nicole. I think NK was extremely attached to DE and there is evidence in her own words from her "Sanctuary" essay that she had issues being overly dependent on boyfriends in high school. She also told the FBI that she was "excited to be part of something so secretive and special." I think NK wanted to be attached to DE forever and this was her way of guaranteeing that. I think that's why she used the word "special" which is repulsive but in her evil mind she got great enjoyment in the planning process, murder, and attempted coverup of Nicole's body after the fact. I think she has had homicidal fantasies in the past and was enraged that she thought DE would prefer a 13 year old to her and that Nicole had the power to destroy DE's future if she disclosed their relationship. On the night of the murder, I think NK insisted on being present for the murder to make sure DE went through with it. I think it's possible NK brought a knife with her without DE knowing and when they got to the planned spot of the murder, NK attacked Nicole. In her evil, delusional state, she probably thought she was a hero to DE, eliminating the perceived threat. I think this scenario is one possible reason they stopped at Walmart after the murder to get cleaning supplies with Nicole's body in the trunk. If the agreed plan was to murder her with a knife, wouldn't they have bought cleaning supplies on their first trip to Walmart? I think If this scenario occurred, DE would have been extremely angry with NK. NK also is the one who kept the minion blanket which is interesting to me.

Anyway, I'm not trying to excuse DE or minimize his role but this is one possibility going through my mind. Sorry for the length
 
What do you all think, do they now sit in their cells and think "My God what have I done?!!" Regret? Remorse?

I honestly do not think so...........NK was worried about only herself........food, pillow etc. DE thinks he can blame everyone but himself in his 'the truth can set me free'
IMOO I believe they are 2 sociopaths..............without any thought of others
 
I think DE has wounds on his face because he stabbed NL. I don't doubt that NK was there, but I think he did it. I have no problem believing that they are both just evil, disturbed people. There may be other motives in there, but I think it comes down to them just being cold hearted killers.

I think we want to try to rationalize why with a bunch of complicated reasons, because as humans, we can't understand how someone could do this. But I think it's pretty simple: they are evil.
 
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