GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #6

[courtneyb]

I think they would of written down toy phone if it was a toy. I wonder if it was a flip phone. Probably old and he used it as a toy. Was he wearing pjs? Jogging pants have deep pockets.

I still can not picture the mom carrying Noah to the septic tank. Ugh I suppose she could of dragged him, :anguish:

Noah was a big 5 year old... 60 lbs! My 4 year old is 58 and I have a HARD time picking him up.


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[windrower]

My speculation about the phone:

Ashley or Paul gave Noah their WORKING phone before leaving that morning and showed him how to call someone if their was emergency while they were gone (presumably how to call the other parents phone). Unfortunately something did happen while they were gone but Noah probably couldnt call because he was either unconscious or deceased. Ashley comes home to find him incapacitated in some way. She panics and is worried about getting in trouble. With adrenalin coursing thru her veins, she picks him up and decides on the septic tank. She prays no one sees her. Once she has dumped him in there, she realizes she cant find the phone. Once she decides to report Noah missing, she realizes she cant report the phone missing because somebody will ping it and not only will they know where the phone is, but also her childs body.

As for how this helps the defense, she has already admitted to leaving him home alone, so now she can say, "see? We gave him a way to reach out in an emergency." Plus, she can argue that if she disposed of her childs body, why would she leave her phone with him when its traceable, so therefore, this was just a horrible accident that happened while she drove Paul to work.

I believe the first part happened but not how the defense may use it.

That is a good premise. I'm wondering if, since her defense attorney brought this up, if she's been waiting for someone to mention the phone, and decided she was going to have to do it herself. Perhaps because of the idea posited above, or because she thinks some info on the phone can help her?

 

[krig101]

My speculation about the phone:

Ashley or Paul gave Noah their WORKING phone before leaving that morning and showed him how to call someone if their was emergency while they were gone (presumably how to call the other parents phone). Unfortunately something did happen while they were gone but Noah probably couldnt call because he was either unconscious or deceased. Ashley comes home to find him incapacitated in some way. She panics and is worried about getting in trouble. With adrenalin coursing thru her veins, she picks him up and decides on the septic tank. She prays no one sees her. Once she has dumped him in there, she realizes she cant find the phone. Once she decides to report Noah missing, she realizes she cant report the phone missing because somebody will ping it and not only will they know where the phone is, but also her childs body.

As for how this helps the defense, she has already admitted to leaving him home alone, so now she can say, "see? We gave him a way to reach out in an emergency." Plus, she can argue that if she disposed of her childs body, why would she leave her phone with him when its traceable, so therefore, this was just a horrible accident that happened while she drove Paul to work.

I believe the first part happened but not how the defense may use it.

Very good theory. This would make sense to me of how things played out that day IMO.

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[blefuscu]

Noah was a big 5 year old... 60 lbs! My 4 year old is 58 and I have a HARD time picking him up.


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Adrenaline can make people do things easier such as lifting things. With adrenaline coursing through her veins she probably carry him easily

 

[courtneyb]

Adrenaline can make people do things easier such as lifting things. With adrenaline coursing through her veins she probably carry him easily

You're absolutely right. . But I think she had help carrying him.


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[Sutton]

That is a good premise. I'm wondering if, since her defense attorney brought this up, if she's been waiting for someone to mention the phone, and decided she was going to have to do it herself. Perhaps because of the idea posited above, or because she thinks some info on the phone can help her?

That's possible. But I think it makes more sense that the defense read the autopsy report for Noah, where the ME listed the cell phone as being found in Noah's right pocket.

Of course the defense wants to know what's on the phone. They don't a want surprise in trial. The defense finds out LE has not even picked the phone up and they grant a motion to to the courts. Here is another link to that motion.

http://m.wdbj7.com/blob/view/-/3379...serve-evidence-in-Noah-Thomas-case-062615.pdf

AW may think there is helpful info on the phone. I'm sure they want to weave that into whatever story they are going to present at trial.

 

[mpnola]

I know there were early on rumors that he was wrapped in a blanket and put in the septic tank. If there was truth in the blanket, I would guess she wrapped him in the blanket and dragged it to the septic tank, then shoved it in. When I worked in mental health, we had several individuals who used wheelchairs to ambulate but needed a lift to get into the chair. As part of my fire emergency plan, my staff were trained to do almost exactly that- get them onto the floor in a blanket type apparatus and drag them to safety. This was done for full sized male adults by small female staff and we practiced with success often. It would be nooo problem to get a 60 pound child out.

 

[kshultz06082]

Noah was a big 5 year old... 60 lbs! My 4 year old is 58 and I have a HARD time picking him up.


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I agree he would not be an easy child to pick up, but when adrenalin is on board due to fear of getting in trouble (and maybe some for the fact that her baby is hurt/unwell/deceased), people have been known to show extraordinary strength, so I dont dismiss the idea that mom carried him by herself just because he is a heavier child.

 

[courtneyb]

I agree he would not be an easy child to pick up, but when adrenalin is on board due to fear of getting in trouble (and maybe some for the fact that her baby is hurt/unwell/deceased), people have been known to show extraordinary strength, so I dont dismiss the idea that mom carried him by herself just because he is a heavier child.

You're right! I don't discount it either. I just think she had help carrying him. I'd bet it was a piece of cake for 2-3 people. [emoji19]


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[cvillemegan]

I used to work at a movie theater and had to carry 50-lb bags of popcorn kernels from a storage closet to the snack bar area, about 50 feet. I think I was roughly Ashley's size at that time and not in good physical shape, very sedentary. It wasn't fun, but I could do it. If she had adrenaline and the ability to rest if necessary, she could do it.

But also important, could any of her neighbors look out their windows and see the area where the septic tank was? Maybe she checked to be sure their cars weren't there first.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Cell phone pings are not specific enough to indicate his body was in a septic tank, plus the phone would have been dead when the battery fried from being submerged in liquid so it wouldn't have pinged anymore.

The medical examiner verified the phone exists and was found in his pocket. Why would the medical examiner lie?

LE suggesting the ME is wrong is the problem here. If they really are refusing to acknowledge and test an item found on the boy, that's a BIG problem. What if it actually IS a real, working phone and belonged to someone other than Paul or Ashley? They need this investigation to be completely thorough.

 

[cvaldez1975]

i dont think she would have any issue lifting her child. when you are picking them up pretty daily from birth, you just do it. they are heavy but it can be done.

 

[skinnycat]

When they upgraded the mothers charges I was so sure that they would also be upgrading the fathers, no extra charges for him leaves so many more unanswered questions.

I wonder if her charges were upgraded because autopsy showed that Noah took at least one breath in the septic tank

LE might feel a little embarassed maybe that they didn't notice the cell phone, but really the stuff that would have been clung to Noah how could they have noticed. I can see no reason why a medical examiner would falsly report a cell phone in a victim's pocket, especially in a highly emotional case like Noah's. I will bet that everything associated with Noah and that septic tank is preserved, tagged and accurate

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

IMO I think LE dropped the proverbial ball, and they themselves "missed" finding the phone and now they look bad/negligent/like keystone cops......and perhaps someone's arse is on the line amongst LE, whomever would have retrieved items from the body that missed something as hard to miss as a phone. Just my 2 cents.

Very odd that LE would even question the ME finding the phone, at least publicly. Had LE not disputed the ME finding the phone, nobody (the general public) would be the wiser, right? Or perhaps they're embarrassed by such a goof-up/oversight, that had they found the phone in all this time steps could have been taken to forensically examine the phone/obtain call logs for it/find out who the phoen belonged to......and they bungled and are now trying to save face? IMO there is no way in the world that an ME, particularly in a heartbreaking and high profile case as this, would be anything other than acutely meticulous in itemizing/documenting items found on the body/in the clothing........afterall, this is a key part of their job.

The mother's defense is requesting evidence be preserved. It may or may not be helpful in her defense, but if it is not preserved and tested, there's no way to know.

I suspect it was an old, inactive cell phone that little Noah put in his front pocket, pretending to be like his Daddy. So it probably wasn't reported missing since it wasn't active.

The fact that LE implied the ME was mistaken and it was a "typo" really bothers me. They're implying the ME is just recycling the same report over and over again and editing it rather than generating a new report for each deceased person?? They're implying the ME is lying about the contents of this little boy's pockets, when every single detail about his death needs to be impeccably investigated and documented to ensure justice??

I understand the importance of preserving the integrity of the investigation, but to think LE is flat out denying the existence of evidence that there is indisputable proof of concerns me greatly.

 

[krig101]

IMO I think LE dropped the proverbial ball, and they themselves "missed" finding the phone and now they look bad/negligent/like keystone cops......and perhaps someone's arse is on the line amongst LE, whomever would have retrieved items from the body that missed something as hard to miss as a phone. Just my 2 cents.

Very odd that LE would even question the ME finding the phone, at least publicly. Had LE not disputed the ME finding the phone, nobody (the general public) would be the wiser, right? Or perhaps they're embarrassed by such a goof-up/oversight, that had they found the phone in all this time steps could have been taken to forensically examine the phone/obtain call logs for it/find out who the phoen belonged to......and they bungled and are now trying to save face? IMO there is no way in the world that an ME, particularly in a heartbreaking and high profile case as this, would be anything other than acutely meticulous in itemizing/documenting items found on the body/in the clothing........afterall, this is a key part of their job.

I agree LazyDayzee. I also recall the public wondering why it took so long for the septic to be searched IMO

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[krig101]

i dont think she would have any issue lifting her child. when you are picking them up pretty daily from birth, you just do it. they are heavy but it can be done.

My oldest weighs over 50 pounds. There are still times when he falls asleep in the car or couch and I have to carry him to bed. For me it's his height that makes it challenging and hard to balance. It is quite a challenge but yes can be done. Also help of adrenaline or dragging as others have said If it was Noah's mother who put him in the septic I wonder if it was her idea or if she contacted Noah's dad and it was his idea. Sorry if has been discussed about who's idea it was, I have been away from this thread for a while although I think of Noah every day. This one's just too heartbreaking for me!

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[AnnaGrace]

I'm surprised there haven't been more charges for both A and P. I expected tampering with or abuse of a corpse. Since there haven't been more, it keeps my great fear going that he was still alive when he was put in the septic tank. I can hardly bare that thought. It doesn't seem likely to me that the mother came up with all this idea of hiding the body all by herself. JMO If P didn't help her, maybe someone else did. I don't know what to think...I guess continue to wait, because I certainly can't forget about poor little Noah. I think about him all the time and the whys and hows he ended up in such a horrible place.

I sincerely hope they're in the process of examining the cell phone and getting all retrievable info off of it through the carrier or whoever can trace it. That way they would know if it belonged to someone currently or if it was an old one that he played with. That should have already been done long ago. I guess I wonder too if, after five days in the septic would info still be retrievable.

 

[cvaldez1975]

idk if it has been said but how could a parent put their child in ****? (excuse my French) these ppl putting them in the trash or in excrement ffs just kills me.

 

[courtneyb]

I'm surprised there haven't been more charges for both A and P. I expected tampering with or abuse of a corpse. Since there haven't been more, it keeps my great fear going that he was still alive when he was put in the septic tank. I can hardly bare that thought. It doesn't seem likely to me that the mother came up with all this idea of hiding the body all by herself. JMO If P didn't help her, maybe someone else did. I don't know what to think...I guess continue to wait, because I certainly can't forget about poor little Noah. I think about him all the time and the whys and hows he ended up in such a horrible place.

I sincerely hope they're in the process of examining the cell phone and getting all retrievable info off of it through the carrier or whoever can trace it. That way they would know if it belonged to someone currently or if it was an old one that he played with. That should have already been done long ago. I guess I wonder too if, after five days in the septic would info still be retrievable.

I cannot imagine if they missed the phone, why they would release that info. I'm holding out hope that it is a tactic to try to draw potential additional suspects out by making them sweat.

In either case, I'm positive they know if it was an active phone, who it belongs to and what is on it. They would not be doing their due diligence if they didn't and certainly wouldn't release that info that they screwed up and had no plans to rectify it.

I can see a scenario where during disposing of his body, they stick their phone in the pocket, to free up their hands, and at the last second, realize they didn't retrieve it but it's too late.

I've always thought that at least 3 people were involved. And that is a good reason, AnnaGrace, why there haven't been more charges in regards to tampering with his corpse. Actually it's a awful, heartbreaking reason, but likely plausible.


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[AnnaGrace]

idk if it has been said but how could a parent put their child in ****? (excuse my French) these ppl putting them in the trash or in excrement ffs just kills me.

I just don't know. It puts me in a cold, unfathomably dark place to even think about it. I can't even go there.

My son, who's in his twenties teared up when he read comments on news articles. His words...that's the lowest, most degrading thing anyone could do. How could they put their little boy in there? It's worse than garbage. If I hated someone, I'd never think of that...

Unfortunately, the supposed rumors have just about all been not rumors.