Hi everyone,
Sorry my Inbox was full but thank you to whomever it was who was trying to message me! I am guessing it was about this news. I have been seriously snowed under but have been following along - never far away from Noah's case. Sorry for the insanely long multi-quote here but I wanted to join the discussion and, well, you know me...I am rarely brief.
So found the phone then said it was a typo? What the heck? Were they lying or did they really not realize there was a phone..? And why wouldn't they check it out??
The ME found the phone. LE said they thought it was a typo, so not the same "they".
I agree. I think there is some significance in releasing this. IMO, LE has been methodical and deliberate in the info they release. Time will tell I guess...
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But LE did not release this information. This was not a press release or even a statement made by the CA or LE in court. This information was contained in a motion from the Defense. I think the fact that LE has been methodical about info in the past and this seems so different in comparison is a good indication that LE fumbled this one.
Sorry I'm not understanding why his mother's defense is bringing this up. It was in his pocket. How does this help his mother? If anything it makes it seem they wanted to destroy the phone as evidence too.
Any little thing that could cause doubt is valuable to the Defense - even if that doubt is just casting doubt upon the thoroughness of LE's investigation.
The mother's defense is requesting evidence be preserved. It may or may not be helpful in her defense, but if it is not preserved and tested, there's no way to know.
I suspect it was an old, inactive cell phone that little Noah put in his front pocket, pretending to be like his Daddy. So it probably wasn't reported missing since it wasn't active.
The fact that LE implied the ME was mistaken and it was a "typo" really bothers me. They're implying the ME is just recycling the same report over and over again and editing it rather than generating a new report for each deceased person?? They're implying the ME is lying about the contents of this little boy's pockets, when every single detail about his death needs to be impeccably investigated and documented to ensure justice??
I understand the importance of preserving the integrity of the investigation, but to think LE is flat out denying the existence of evidence that there is indisputable proof of concerns me greatly.
This bothers me, too. LE and the Prosecution NEED the ME to above all doubt, all suspicion. ME's credibility needs to be sterling. Why cast aspersion on the merit of their own case? Unless there is some other backstory there between ME and LE that we are unaware of. But that kind of drama does not seem to be the norm for this agency.
I also think it could be an old, inactivated phone. We give ours to our kids when we upgrade and they pretend they are real. Iphones can work as Ipods (just w/out phone service), so who knows.
I thought so, too. My littles have an old flip phone that they pack in to purses and actvity bags and backpacks all the time.
I can only speculate also. I will just say that I don't think Ashley is stupid. I think she may be pretty intelligent, knowledgeable about how a murder investigation works and also just a good liar. Again, all speculation on my part. I don't think the cell phones existence or the fact that the defense wants it preserved brings up any question of possible innocence for Ashley. But they will try to prove that there is a shadow of a doubt that she did it....
I have no idea why LE is saying the phone doesn't exist though....
<<<<scratches head....
Well said.
Also....more speculation but...could a cell phone ping be the "tip" that led them to search the septic tank? And if that's the case, could LE be justified in lying about it because it could hurt the investigation? I don't know...just a thought.
I don't think it would have been a cell ping in the septic b/c they would have to know whose phone to locate. I don't this cell belongs to AW or PT (I seem to remember there were early rumors about AW's cell pinging in another location, etc. I think LE would have been on top of both parents phones).
The article tells who has the phone in his/her possession at this time and also says no attempt has been made to retrieve any information off the phone. Why not? I thought the mother's attorney also said there was a small toy found with Noah. When are the toxicology reports due back? It doesn't seem like this case is moving very fast.
http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/new...s-pocket-according-to-court-document/33798200
Yes, it said an "action figurine" was found. "The motion asks that authorities preserve the phone, an action figurine, clothes and other personal effects found on the boy."
http://www.roanoke.com/news/noah-th...cle_e899eb30-75de-5612-940a-89b4d7c1fd82.html
The same article states that the final autopsy report was signed June 3. "Authorities have not disclosed the cause of the child’s death, although Tharp signed a final autopsy report June 3. "
IMO the phone doesn't exist. Defense is planting seeds of doubt. Most likely a clerical error.
But the ME has "confirmed" it's existence. What motivation would ME have to lie and/or work towards the Defense's case?
Medical examiners don't type the reports, they dictate them. Whoever transcribed it probably have a program that speeds up the transcribing. Something may have been in pocket butI'm doubtful it was a phone. Toddler pockets are small so a phone would have to be smaller. A play plastic phone... perhaps. JMO .
Doesn't explain why DA wouldn't have gotten that cleared with ME prior to court... But definitely could taint people's perception of LE and the DA as noted on this thread.
The ME would be dictating but the contents of a pocket would likely be listed on a standardized form. I think that is what they are referring to. But this wasn't brought up in a hearing. The Defense filed a motion. And I, personally, think the bigger issue is the tainting of people's perception of the ME, not LE.
As for pockets - Noah was 60 lbs. He probably wasn't in toddler clothes anymore. I would guess he was at least a 6 or 6x, possibly a 7/8. My daughter is an a 7/8. The pockets are plenty big.
Why would the Medical Examiner be in collusion with the defense? Or am I misunderstanding something?
"The existence of the cell phone was confirmed on Wednesday by Assistant Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Amy Tharp, who performed the autopsy on Noah Thomas."
http://m.wdbj7.com/news/local/new-r...s-pocket-according-to-court-document/33798200
http://m.wdbj7.com/blob/view/-/3379...serve-evidence-in-Noah-Thomas-case-062615.pdf
AGREED.
I think they would of written down toy phone if it was a toy. I wonder if it was a flip phone. Probably old and he used it as a toy. Was he wearing pjs? Jogging pants have deep pockets.
I still can not picture the mom carrying Noah to the septic tank. Ugh I suppose she could of dragged him, :anguish:
Your comment about pajamas made me wonder. Why do I recall that AW said he was in pajama's but all of the missing persons reports, including the earliest ones, have him in the black and yellow pants (which we later saw a pic of and they look like track pants/jogging pants/sweat pants)? The information in the Defense motion indicates pants. I am going to guess they are, indeed, the black and yellow track pants he wore the night before (which, yeah, would likely have decent pockets).
Cell phone pings are not specific enough to indicate his body was in a septic tank, plus the phone would have been dead when the battery fried from being submerged in liquid so it wouldn't have pinged anymore.
The medical examiner verified the phone exists and was found in his pocket. Why would the medical examiner lie?
LE suggesting the ME is wrong is the problem here. If they really are refusing to acknowledge and test an item found on the boy, that's a BIG problem. What if it actually IS a real, working phone and belonged to someone other than Paul or Ashley? They need this investigation to be completely thorough.
AGREED.
When they upgraded the mothers charges I was so sure that they would also be upgrading the fathers, no extra charges for him leaves so many more unanswered questions.
I wonder if her charges were upgraded because autopsy showed that Noah took at least one breath in the septic tank
LE might feel a little embarassed maybe that they didn't notice the cell phone, but really the stuff that would have been clung to Noah how could they have noticed. I can see no reason why a medical examiner would falsly report a cell phone in a victim's pocket, especially in a highly emotional case like Noah's. I will bet that everything associated with Noah and that septic tank is preserved, tagged and accurate
I don't think LE is embarrassed that they missed the phone upon Noah's initial discovery. That isn't really their job - he was extracted from the septic and immediately transported. I think the embarrassment is how they did not notice it on either the initial report from the ME from months ago or the final report from LE dated June 3. The CA should have scoured that report with a fine tooth comb and analyzed every bit of info and acted as appropriate.
IMO I think LE dropped the proverbial ball, and they themselves "missed" finding the phone and now they look bad/negligent/like keystone cops......and perhaps someone's arse is on the line amongst LE, whomever would have retrieved items from the body that missed something as hard to miss as a phone. Just my 2 cents.
Very odd that LE would even question the ME finding the phone, at least publicly. Had LE not disputed the ME finding the phone, nobody (the general public) would be the wiser, right? Or perhaps they're embarrassed by such a goof-up/oversight, that had they found the phone in all this time steps could have been taken to forensically examine the phone/obtain call logs for it/find out who the phoen belonged to......and they bungled and are now trying to save face? IMO there is no way in the world that an ME, particularly in a heartbreaking and high profile case as this, would be anything other than acutely meticulous in itemizing/documenting items found on the body/in the clothing........afterall, this is a key part of their job.
I think that they missed it on the June 3 report but even so, they would then have to get warrants, etc. So, really - this is a fumble of a few weeks, not months. But I agree - why draw attention to yourselves by making stuff up? Why not just say, "We are working on it" Or "we were preparing to file for warrants, etc." Why argue in such a seemingly petty way?
I agree LazyDayzee. I also recall the public wondering why it took so long for the septic to be searched IMO
I still wonder if that (the septic) was a fumble on the part of LE or calculated. And that makes me wonder if perhaps LE knew about this phone? There have been several instances of LE playing it close to the vest and denying things to to the public while they work the case in their own, private way.
I'm surprised there haven't been more charges for both A and P. I expected tampering with or abuse of a corpse. Since there haven't been more, it keeps my great fear going that he was still alive when he was put in the septic tank. I can hardly bare that thought. It doesn't seem likely to me that the mother came up with all this idea of hiding the body all by herself. JMO If P didn't help her, maybe someone else did. I don't know what to think...I guess continue to wait, because I certainly can't forget about poor little Noah. I think about him all the time and the whys and hows he ended up in such a horrible place.
I sincerely hope they're in the process of examining the cell phone and getting all retrievable info off of it through the carrier or whoever can trace it. That way they would know if it belonged to someone currently or if it was an old one that he played with. That should have already been done long ago. I guess I wonder too if, after five days in the septic would info still be retrievable.
I don't think it could have been done any sooner than June 3 when the final report was signed. If the phone did not belong to AW or PT, how would they have known what phone/whose phone to get the data for from the carrier? Data would have been retrievable from the carrier/provider but maybe not from the phone or SIM itself. But then again, if they felt there was something there they really needed, they may have been able to employ a computer forensics expert to try to restore data. What we often believe is irretrievable is often just irretrievable to us as laypeople.
I cannot imagine if they missed the phone, why they would release that info. I'm holding out hope that it is a tactic to try to draw potential additional suspects out by making them sweat.
In either case, I'm positive they know if it was an active phone, who it belongs to and what is on it. They would not be doing their due diligence if they didn't and certainly wouldn't release that info that they screwed up and had no plans to rectify it.
I can see a scenario where during disposing of his body, they stick their phone in the pocket, to free up their hands, and at the last second, realize they didn't retrieve it but it's too late.
I've always thought that at least 3 people were involved. And that is a good reason, AnnaGrace, why there haven't been more charges in regards to tampering with his corpse. Actually it's a awful, heartbreaking reason, but likely plausible.
THAT, and I think those kinds of charges are good to keep in their back pocket for plea bargaining, or in case they are found not guilty or the case is the case is thrown out for some other reason.
