GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #7

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Then I found this. Sorry if it is a repeat. First time I saw and wanted to share.



:thinking: Was the Pulaski County K9 Baloo with his handler (who testified at the Prelim Hearing April 12) ... when he arrived at the residence March 22? Baloo is according to Pulaski Cty Sheriff Office, a bloodhound trained for human tracking.... yet Baloo (if was there) missed Noah in septic tank, Cpl Nester, and also another officer missed Noah in that Septic tank on March 22.
Yet logic tells us from the information we heard via media, (Noah drowned in the septic tank) he would have HAD to have been there when LEO arrived, not hid and put there later.

Baloo, the tracking dog was correct all along but the humans perhaps interpreted that as to getting into a car and leaving? since tracking dogs and cadaver dogs are very different and the smells that they hit on... In retrospect it would have been beneficial to have a cadaver dog to have sniffed that tank. :(
 
Baloo, the tracking dog was correct all along but the humans perhaps interpreted that as to getting into a car and leaving? since tracking dogs and cadaver dogs are very different and the smells that they hit on... In retrospect it would have been beneficial to have a cadaver dog to have sniffed that tank. :(

I agree, but wouldn't that tracking dog still be able to lock onto Noah's scent had he went to the tank? To me this says that he was put there - carried there.
 
I agree, but wouldn't that tracking dog still be able to lock onto Noah's scent had he went to the tank? To me this says that he was put there - carried there.

I would guess that could be because the tank was so close to the house and in the yard he planned in nearly every day, his scent was all over the place between there and the door. Also, I have to think the septic sludge may have been an issue in masking the fresh scent (and as said, would have needed a cadaver dog to pick up on).

In the case of DeOrr Kuntz, they discovered that someone spreading cremated remains in the area of the reservoir tripped the dog(s) up. If cremated remains can do that, I would think septic sludge would, too. Think about what the sludge is made of - human waste, bodily fluids, etc.
 
Then I found this. Sorry if it is a repeat. First time I saw and wanted to share.



:thinking: Was the Pulaski County K9 Baloo with his handler (who testified at the Prelim Hearing April 12) ... when he arrived at the residence March 22? Baloo is according to Pulaski Cty Sheriff Office, a bloodhound trained for human tracking.... yet Baloo (if was there) missed Noah in septic tank, Cpl Nester, and also another officer missed Noah in that Septic tank on March 22.
Yet logic tells us from the information we heard via media, (Noah drowned in the septic tank) he would have HAD to have been there when LEO arrived, not hid and put there later.

I have to think he was there all along but something in that first day or two went really pear shaped. Whether they REALLY botched the investigation this badly through ineptitude or through a poorly played strategy, Noah should have been found far sooner than he was.
 
Noah had run and played in that yard for years. The grass had been mowed during those years and the septic tank had been serviced over the years. Imo From accounts we heard previously he was rarely supervised. So what made this the day he was going to be interested in the septic tank lid and THEN at the first whiff of that odor continue exploring enough to fall in? Still not buying it. Jmo
 
Yes it was Orly. I had copied and posted sections of his report to point that fact out. **My bad** Orly in my opinion was only doing his job and I hate that he was let go after that. I thought then and I still think it is something fishy going on with this case. Even the fact that Ashley and he were not strangers. I have asked Orly on More TV truth is he has an update for us but he isn't posting anything on his page.. kind of concerning. I can't help but wonder if he is avoiding the case but that is not his style.

...or no one else is talking to him now b/c of issues with his credibility, or b/c they are worried for their own sakes, or b/c he was been warned not to speak, or he is being sued...could be so many reasons why.

Just wondering here...if his name was added to a witness list or subpoenaed by either side, he would be legally bound not to discuss the case now, wouldn't he?

If the judge issued a Gag order...would that be public information at this point?
 
Noah had run and played in that yard for years. The grass had been mowed during those years and the septic tank had been serviced over the years. Imo From accounts we heard previously he was rarely supervised. So what made this the day he was going to be interested in the septic tank lid and THEN at the first whiff of that odor continue exploring enough to fall in? Still not buying it. Jmo


Right. We all keep wondering who put that lid back on. Because it "popping off like a Tupperware lid" doesn't indicate the lid just falling back in place. But, if he fell in, then Noah would have had to take the lid off. If he had done so, what would he have done with that lid?? Set it aside on the ground? If he took the lid off, set it on the ground and fell in, how did it end up back on, seemingly undisturbed, and on with enough force to "pop off"?




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Right. We all keep wondering who put that lid back on. Because it "popping off like a Tupperware lid" doesn't indicate the lid just falling back in place. But, if he fell in, then Noah would have had to take the lid off. If he had done so, what would he have done with that lid?? Set it aside on the ground? If he took the lid off, set it on the ground and fell in, how did it end up back on, seemingly undisturbed, and on with enough force to "pop off"?




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It could have flipped around just like others have done.
 
Noah had run and played in that yard for years. The grass had been mowed during those years and the septic tank had been serviced over the years. Imo From accounts we heard previously he was rarely supervised. So what made this the day he was going to be interested in the septic tank lid and THEN at the first whiff of that odor continue exploring enough to fall in? Still not buying it. Jmo
Sometimes it just takes a "perfect storm" to set up an event for a tragedy. One in a million chances still happen.
 
But not with the downward force need from above to make it pop off the next time it was removed, IMO.


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Contraction from changes in temperature? Be that the weather or (I hate putting this in such a crass manner, but...) changes in temperature from having a warm body then a cooling then cold body? Created a vacuum?
 
Contraction from changes in temperature? Be that the weather or (I hate putting this in such a crass manner, but...) changes in temperature from having a warm body then a cooling then cold body? Created a vacuum?

If there was enough of a temperature shift, maybe. But it would have had to flip and land right side up, perfectly in place.

If he didn't take the lid off and set it aside, but lifted it up to look in, it would seem that by the time he lifted it high enough for his body to fit in, the lid likely would have slid off the side and onto the ground next to the tank.


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Contraction from changes in temperature? Be that the weather or (I hate putting this in such a crass manner, but...) changes in temperature from having a warm body then a cooling then cold body? Created a vacuum?

Being that it was in March, temperatures would have still been pretty cold, I think. Would a normal 98.6 temp be enough in the tank to cause much of a temperature change. I would think the cold liquid would cause a body as small as Noah's to cool down quickly. Oh, how much I hated typing that. However, since the tank was shared with a neighboring house, maybe if they had been showering, doing laundry, running dishwasher, etc., maybe it would have changed enough to create some kind of vacuum. Since Ashley was supposedly sleeping and Paul was at work, I don't imagine that would apply to her household. The lid would have to be perfectly lined up with the opening or air would prevent it from sealing. I've thought about those poor neighbors a lot and how devastating it must have been for them to find out little Noah was in there all that time. My heart goes out to them.

Atthelake, if you're reading, I remember you posting about a place you visited, that had similar septic tank covers that were easily removed. Did they pop off or just easily lift up or move to the side with a toe kick? Can you refresh my memory on that one more time? TIA
 
Being that it was in March, temperatures would have still been pretty cold, I think. Would a normal 98.6 temp be enough in the tank to cause much of a temperature change. I would think the cold liquid would cause a body as small as Noah's to cool down quickly. Oh, how much I hated typing that. However, since the tank was shared with a neighboring house, maybe if they had been showering, doing laundry, running dishwasher, etc., maybe it would have changed enough to create some kind of vacuum. Since Ashley was supposedly sleeping and Paul was at work, I don't imagine that would apply to her household. The lid would have to be perfectly lined up with the opening or air would prevent it from sealing. I've thought about those poor neighbors a lot and how devastating it must have been for them to find out little Noah was in there all that time. My heart goes out to them.

Atthelake, if you're reading, I remember you posting about a place you visited, that had similar septic tank covers that were easily removed. Did they pop off or just easily lift up or move to the side with a toe kick? Can you refresh my memory on that one more time? TIA

Quick answer, if not screwed in, there wasn't a "catch" which the top fit into the lid iirc. No rubber gasket between the two that would make it a have a little resistance either. But remember, we don't know what type of lid/product it was and if that one had a rubber gasket between the two or the plastic on theirs had a design whereby the top/bottom had a design that would resist a little without screws.

I don't think they are talking about a vacuum situation when they said "popped like a tupperware lid" though and think we may be taking that too literally? I'm thinking pop was from resistance of a gasket :dunno:

For those that don't want to go back to thread #7 posts 404 and a few more later.... here is what I said and posted at the time.... (I think I can only post 2 pics/post, so will do multiple posts)

atthelake
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The "getwaway" location I went to this weekend had rentals that had septic tanks. So I took a tour to inspect and learn more due to this case and thread. I'm attaching photos on this post and following ones. The cover was plastic, with the same weight and thickness you might find in a lid of a 30 gallon pail. It had 6 areas for screws. AND THEY WERE NOT SCREWED ON. I could lift the lid easily with my foot to move it. It would be easy in the dark to trip over this sticking out of the ground, and if my foot caught the lid just right, I can see how the cover could easily be kicked totally off. The opening was about 2 feet across, and my entire body would fit through this hole. I was too anxious to take the lid off totally for inspection. And yes indeed management for the rental property is getting the photos, the links to the stories re Noah, and my as to this safety hazard.

2015-04-26Cover (1).jpg
2015-04-26CoverFoot (1).jpg
 
OK, I was wrong! :pullhair: I had to say that on another thread just yesterday :floorlaugh:

I guess I was hesitant to mess with it when I was there as it was making me antsy just touching it with my foot. The one I saw DOES have a molded gasket, I missed this when I posted it earlier I guess. This is from the website of the manufacturer of the one I saw, (I posted this back on thread #7) and having a molded gasket may indeed make it catch and pop like a tupperware lid IF it was on correctly? :moo: When I lifted it with my foot, I didn't recall any resistance as it wasn't seated properly?

I'll be sure to check it out when we go back in the fall to those cabins though :angel:

http://www.tuf-tite.com/riser.pdf
risermoldedgasket.JPG

2015-04-26CoverinYard (1).jpg
 
Quick answer, if not screwed in, there wasn't a "catch" which the top fit into the lid iirc. No rubber gasket between the two that would make it a have a little resistance either. But remember, we don't know what type of lid/product it was and if that one had a rubber gasket between the two or the plastic on theirs had a design whereby the top/bottom had a design that would resist a little without screws.

I don't think they are talking about a vacuum situation when they said "popped like a tupperware lid" though and think we may be taking that too literally? I'm thinking pop was from resistance of a gasket :dunno:

For those that don't want to go back to thread #7 posts 404 and a few more later.... here is what I said and posted at the time.... (I think I can only post 2 pics/post, so will do multiple posts)



View attachment 80135
View attachment 80136

Thank you for bringing this forward again!

You're right that we don't know what kind of tank and lid it was. I remember reading that the lid was green and that's all, other than the popped off like a Tupperware lid. I wish we knew more. I have a hard time seeing how the lid would fall back down on it's own to the point of sealing or popping off. Maybe, I am taking the popping off too literally.
 
OK, I was wrong! :pullhair: I had to say that on another thread just yesterday :floorlaugh:

I guess I was hesitant to mess with it when I was there as it was making me antsy just touching it with my foot. The one I saw DOES have a molded gasket, I missed this when I posted it earlier I guess. This is from the website of the manufacturer of the one I saw, (I posted this back on thread #7) and having a molded gasket may indeed make it catch and pop like a tupperware lid IF it was on correctly? :moo: When I lifted it with my foot, I didn't recall any resistance as it wasn't seated properly?

I'll be sure to check it out when we go back in the fall to those cabins though :angel:

http://www.tuf-tite.com/riser.pdf
View attachment 80139

View attachment 80140

Lol...we're all wrong sometimes. It's ok, at least you're aware of it...:takeabow:

I can see why you were antsy checking out those lids. I would be too. So, some of them do have a gasket and maybe all of them do. I just can't imagine the safety bolts being left out of something so hazardous. I hope when you reported it and sent your pics and info on little Noah, that it brought about some safe results. Locked down and bolted on, I hope.
 
Lol...we're all wrong sometimes. It's ok, at least you're aware of it...:takeabow:

I can see why you were antsy checking out those lids. I would be too. So, some of them do have a gasket and maybe all of them do. I just can't imagine the safety bolts being left out of something so hazardous. I hope when you reported it and sent your pics and info on little Noah, that it brought about some safe results. Locked down and bolted on, I hope.

Just today I made reservations to go back in the fall and you know I will check it.. And send pictures to all of you :wink:
 
Just today I made reservations to go back in the fall and you know I will check it.. And send pictures to all of you :wink:

ETA. .. When I send in my payment I will specifically ask them if they have fixed it ...and if they say they don't know what I'm talking about... I will send them the photographs and more of my thoughts :biggrin:
 

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