Verdict: GUILTY for both Millard and Smich of 1st degree murder #2

[Abitcountry]

So, if you are rich and commit a crime, you should face an extra punishment of having your money taken away?

I thought justice was blind, and all were equal in the eyes of the law. Perhaps I am wrong.

OJ Simpson was parted from his money not in the criminal case but in the civil litigation that was conducted sometime after. OJ was found guilty of the wrongful death of his wife and young Mr. Goldman and subsequently parted from his wealth.
I do not know if it is possible to pursue a similar course of action here in Canada but it would certainly be worth looking into further.

 

[Tealgrove]

Maybe the house is worth close to a million, but no financial institution is going to hand a single, aging mother a million dollars as a loan. Simply no way for her to pay it back, and contrary to popular belief, banks aren't eager to seize houses to get their money.

I used to work for Ontario Legal Aid Plan. If no real changes have been made this is GENERALLY how it works.

You apply for Legal Aid. A financial assessment is done on you. They look at your savings, your property, etc. etc. If you have anything of value, like a house, they will pay your lawyer for you and place a lien on your home. You are also expected to pay back the money monthly until it's all paid off. Sometimes, they pay out a percentage of the money to your lawyer which you don't have to pay back and then place a lien for a certain amount and then you pay back the lien amount.

If you have NO MONEY, NADA, your legal representative is provided to you, free of charge. Not all lawyers accept Legal Aid payment so you may not get the cream of the crop. Just saying....

Lawyers will do pro bono work in high profile cases. They do. That's just the way it is. I don't know that TD accepts Legal Aid payments but he very well may and since this was a high profile case he very well may have taken on, being paid or not, through various avenues.

It would not surprise me to hear that a lien was placed on MS's mothers' home if she chose to offer it up for him. She may have, but I don't think that's any of our business. Who knows, his family may have gone to financial bat for him on this one.

 

[Bellers]

Is this suggesting TD was paid for by the tax payers? Is there any proof of that?

I remember seeing this tweet during the trial, so no, there is no proof.

[video=twitter;727872099897901056]https://twitter.com/susanclairmont/status/727872099897901056[/video]

 

[canadiangirl]

Maybe the house is worth close to a million, but no financial institution is going to hand a single, aging mother a million dollars as a loan. Simply no way for her to pay it back, and contrary to popular belief, banks aren't eager to seize houses to get their money.

If you are over 55 in Canada and have equity in your home, you can have what is called a reverse mortgage.. You have access to the equity in your home and are free to do with it as you please. Many need it due to medical expenses, supplementing their income, pay off other debts etc.

 

[canadiangirl]

I used to work for Ontario Legal Aid Plan. If no real changes have been made this is GENERALLY how it works.

You apply for Legal Aid. A financial assessment is done on you. They look at your savings, your property, etc. etc. If you have anything of value, like a house, they will pay your lawyer for you and place a lien on your home. You are also expected to pay back the money monthly until it's all paid off. Sometimes, they pay out a percentage of the money to your lawyer which you don't have to pay back and then place a lien for a certain amount and then you pay back the lien amount.

If you have NO MONEY, NADA, your legal representative is provided to you, free of charge. Not all lawyers accept Legal Aid payment so you may not get the cream of the crop. Just saying....

Lawyers will do pro bono work in high profile cases. They do. That's just the way it is. I don't know that TD accepts Legal Aid payments but he very well may and since this was a high profile case he very well may have taken on, being paid or not, through various avenues.

It would not surprise me to hear that a lien was placed on MS's mothers' home if she chose to offer it up for him. She may have, but I don't think that's any of our business. Who knows, his family may have gone to financial bat for him on this one.

The fact TD has taken on both cases for MS has me questioning if it is in fact legal aid. Would legal aid assign the same lawyer for both trials? It would seem it would be either paid for or pro bono work? Maybe I'm way off and legal aid would assign him to both.

 

[Bellers]

The fact TD has taken on both cases for MS has me questioning if it is in fact legal aid. Would legal aid assign the same lawyer for both trials? It would seem it would be either paid for or pro bono work? Maybe I'm way off and legal aid would assign him to both.

You get to pick your own lawyer using legal aid. Any lawyer that accepts legal aid payments. Then LAO pays the bill. They aren't assigned to you.

 

[canadiangirl]

You get to pick your own lawyer using legal aid. Any lawyer that accepts legal aid payments. Then LAO pays the bill. They aren't assigned to you.

Thanks! I had no idea.

 

[Juballee]

BBM

Convicts are not allowed to profit from their crimes.

Regarding the bolded portion above, I am curious to understand how you arrived at this conclusion. Did you see some evidence of DM's charitable ways during the trial?


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It was a reply to a post that is on a subject that we have been warned to not talk about anymore, sorry.

 

[juridicus]

OJ Simpson was parted from his money not in the criminal case but in the civil litigation that was conducted sometime after. OJ was found guilty of the wrongful death of his wife and young Mr. Goldman and subsequently parted from his wealth.
I do not know if it is possible to pursue a similar course of action here in Canada but it would certainly be worth looking into further.

Yes, wrongful death is certainly a ground on which to sue in Canadian provinces, though the damages you'd get are not as extravagantly high as you might get in the U.S. In Ontario, family members are permitted to bring a wrongful death claim under section 61 of the Family Law Act. It sets out the kinds of damages you can claim.

However, the limitation period to bring a civil action is normally two years after the event, which I would suppose has expired in SB's case.

It's worth noting that the burden of proof in such a civil claim is lower than in a criminal trial too, i.e. you only need to show they caused the death on a balance of probabilities, not beyond reasonable doubt.

MOO, not legal advice

EDIT: An interesting legal question is whether Kijiji or AutoTrader could be held liable, too (i.e. for contributory fault or negligence in the wrongful death), as discussed here: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/james-morton/kijji-and-tim-bosma_b_3332500.html

 

[canadiangirl]

Yes, wrongful death is certainly a ground on which to sue in Canadian provinces, though the damages you'd get are not as extravagantly high as you might get in the U.S. In Ontario, family members are permitted to bring a wrongful death claim under section 61 of the Family Law Act. It sets out the kinds of damages you can claim.

However, the limitation period to bring a civil action is normally two years after the event, which I would suppose has expired in SB's case.

It's worth noting that the burden of proof in such a civil claim is lower than in a criminal trial too, i.e. you only need to show they caused the death on a balance of probabilities, not beyond reasonable doubt.

MOO, not legal advice

EDIT: An interesting legal question is whether Kijiji or AutoTrader could be held liable, too (i.e. for contributory fault or negligence in the wrongful death), as discussed here: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/james-morton/kijji-and-tim-bosma_b_3332500.html

http://kijijiblog.ca/online-safety/

I had never seen this blog from Kijiji. I find it interesting as IIRC from TB phone number was on the ad.. Does anyone else recall this? I seem to remember the webcache from 2013 although I believe auto trader is how it was concluded the connections were made? MOO

 

[Georgeo]

Why not MS?

Well, that's an odd statement from you, as you seem to think MS was not guilty of M1.

 

[canadiangirl]

Well, that's an odd statement from you, as you seem to think MS was not guilty of M1.

Well those that agree both are guilty of M1 seem to focus heavily on DM's retribution to SB. Shouldn't both convicted be equally culpable? I don't think there's anything odd about that?

 

[Georgeo]

Well those that agree both are guilty of M1 seem to focus heavily on DM's retribution to SB. Shouldn't both convicted be equally culpable? I don't think there's anything odd about that?

Yes, however it is extremely hard to get blood from a stone ( meaning MS had no job, no money, no education, etc. )

 

[canadiangirl]

Yes, however it is extremely hard to get blood from a stone ( meaning MS had no job, no money, no education, etc. )

And from DM's own accounts Daddy was hiding debts and he needed to make 100k a month to get out of the hole with a 3.7 mil loan for a hanger that generated zero revenue.

 

[juridicus]

And from DM's own accounts Daddy was hiding debts and he needed to make 100k a month to get out of the hole with a 3.7 mil loan for a hanger that generated zero revenue.

But he had lots of assets and ostensibly acted very quickly to try and protect them from future lawsuits, including the condo he bought the day of the murder in the Distillery District for $627,524:

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/06/05/millard_land_deals_beyond_smelly_experts_say.html


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[canadiangirl]

But he had lots of assets and ostensibly acted very quickly to try and protect them from future lawsuits, including the condo he bought the day of the murder in the Distillery District for $627,524:

https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/06/05/millard_land_deals_beyond_smelly_experts_say.html


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Yes but those 3 properties don't add up to the 3.7mil in debt. This would still be outstanding.

 

[juridicus]

Yes but those 3 properties don't add up to the 3.7mil in debt. This would still be outstanding.

Those three properties don't include the farm (since been sold for $800K) and another six-unit residential property in his name, cars, etc. I mean, he might not have millions lying around these days, but he'd be more worth trying to get a judgment against than MS.


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[canadiangirl]

Those three properties don't include the farm (since been sold for $800K) and another six-unit residential property in his name, cars, etc. I mean, he might not have millions lying around these days, but he'd be more worth trying to get a judgment against than MS.


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$710k - Distillery condo
$392k - Woodbridge ave
$800k - Farm
$1.2mil Maplegate
Riverside didn't sell as the bank put a 3.8mil lien against it.

Plus the hanger debt.

Not counting his lawyers fees. He's still in the hole...can't bleed a stone as some have said. Jmo

 

[SnooperDuper]

$710k - Distillery condo
$392k - Woodbridge ave
$800k - Farm
$1.2mil Maplegate
Riverside didn't sell as the bank put a 3.8mil lien against it.

Plus the hanger debt.

Not counting his lawyers fees. He's still in the hole...can't bleed a stone as some have said. Jmo

Here's what everything sold for except the hangar. DM liquidated around $12M in properties.

 

[canadiangirl]

View attachment 97604

Here's what everything sold for except the hangar. DM liquidated around $12M in properties.

With $12mil in assets, a 3.8 mil lien on riverside and needing to make $100k a month in 2013, something doesn't add up. Although this list shows what he would have liquidated, why in 2013 would he need 100k a month if he had the money from the sales from 2011 onwards plus taking a loan out in 2012 for 3.7mil? So where is this so called 12mil?