Verdict: GUILTY for both Millard and Smich of 1st degree murder #2

[billandrew]

So, having had the weekend to digest the verdicts, I have to say that I am not happy or overjoyed like many people are. What I feel is sadness. Yes, Millard and Smich got what they deserved, don't get me wrong, but its still sad that these two young men's lives are over before they've barely begun. If only they had focused their energies on more positive endeavours, and maybe if each of them had a good father figure, things might have turned out differently. Millard and Smich seem like a pair of trees that were growing crooked, they just needed somebody to set them straight. Never happened. Smith's dad was gone and his home seemed oblivious to the things he was doing. Millard's dad was apparently a drunk and his mom, well we all know about her. What kind of parents, well off ones at that, dump their kid on an uncle for two years. Seems that Millard was just appeased with whatever he wanted, rather than being properly parented.

I feel sorry for Smich's mom. I feel sorry for MB. As a parent I feel sick for what each of the parents of these kids must feel. I feel sorry for the Bosmas withe their horrible loss. Its just a huge tragedy, and for a stupid truck! There has just been so much pain for people on both sides of the fence, its just difficult to get any kind of pleasure out of this verdict.

Agreed, andreww. There was an initial feeling of satisfaction for me which faded away to uncover a deep emptiness and sadness. Now that the trial is over and justice has been served, we're left to face all the holes that were created -- not just for the Bosmas but for the family and friends of the convicted and the entire community that was shaken by these tragic events. Those "crooked trees", rather than being straightened, essentially had to be uprooted. It is incredibly sad in so many ways, and while difficult, I think it is important to recognize and embrace these feelings in order to move on and regrow.

ETA: Allowing anger, fear, and hatred to consume us is a great way to ensure that more saplings in our community grow up to be crooked and stunted. That's not the way to move forward, IMO.

 

[Ashley96]

So, having had the weekend to digest the verdicts, I have to say that I am not happy or overjoyed like many people are. What I feel is sadness. Yes, Millard and Smich got what they deserved, don't get me wrong, but its still sad that these two young men's lives are over before they've barely begun. If only they had focused their energies on more positive endeavours, and maybe if each of them had a good father figure, things might have turned out differently. Millard and Smich seem like a pair of trees that were growing crooked, they just needed somebody to set them straight. Never happened. Smith's dad was gone and his home seemed oblivious to the things he was doing. Millard's dad was apparently a drunk and his mom, well we all know about her. What kind of parents, well off ones at that, dump their kid on an uncle for two years. Seems that Millard was just appeased with whatever he wanted, rather than being properly parented.

I feel sorry for Smich's mom. I feel sorry for MB. As a parent I feel sick for what each of the parents of these kids must feel. I feel sorry for the Bosmas withe their horrible loss. Its just a huge tragedy, and for a stupid truck! There has just been so much pain for people on both sides of the fence, its just difficult to get any kind of pleasure out of this verdict.

'Pleasure' is not a word i could use either. Satisfaction and peace with a right decision would describe my feelings better... Reassurance that those two young men who made such incredibly poor and unspeakable choices will not be a danger to the public anymore. It was the best decision in this situation.

But i also feel sorry for the families of the convicted... To sit and hear the cheers as your only son is sentenced to life in prison...

But it is what it is, and actions obviously have consequences, both direct and indirect.

Maybe some young person out there will read about this case and make better decisions on what path he/she will take because of it... One can always hope :/

 

[Webulls]

If over the next several months, one or the other, or both, of DM and MS were to get whacked in prison, what would happen with the Laura Babcock trial? Would they be tried in absentia and would evidence be presented?

It's not that far-fetched.

 

[Typhoo1961]

I feel sorry for MB.

Considering what MB has done I do not feel sorry for her at all.

 

[Webulls]

So, having had the weekend to digest the verdicts, I have to say that I am not happy or overjoyed like many people are. What I feel is sadness. Yes, Millard and Smich got what they deserved, don't get me wrong, but its still sad that these two young men's lives are over before they've barely begun. If only they had focused their energies on more positive endeavours, and maybe if each of them had a good father figure, things might have turned out differently. Millard and Smich seem like a pair of trees that were growing crooked, they just needed somebody to set them straight. Never happened. Smith's dad was gone and his home seemed oblivious to the things he was doing. Millard's dad was apparently a drunk and his mom, well we all know about her. What kind of parents, well off ones at that, dump their kid on an uncle for two years. Seems that Millard was just appeased with whatever he wanted, rather than being properly parented.

I feel sorry for Smich's mom. I feel sorry for MB. As a parent I feel sick for what each of the parents of these kids must feel. I feel sorry for the Bosmas withe their horrible loss. Its just a huge tragedy, and for a stupid truck! There has just been so much pain for people on both sides of the fence, its just difficult to get any kind of pleasure out of this verdict.

I feel nothing but disgust for the perps. May they rot in hell.

However, I feel a profound sadness for the Bosmas. The guilty verdicts did nothing to take that sadness away. The only joy in hearing "guilty" was in knowing that two super deviant degenerates will never be allowed to murder anyone again, and that they are being punished for what they did.

Both are serial murderers. Both left the free world more damaged than when they came into it. They can no longer do damage to innocent people. Their families will be better off knowing their spawn aren't going to murder and incinerate more innocent people. Perhaps it would help to see it that way instead, if you wish to consider the affect on their families.

 

[billandrew]

I can see the denial of the change of venue being a matter of appeal.

I wonder why it was denied. Is it common to hold high profile trials in other jurisdictions due to the local public's sympathy toward the victim(s)? I can see convenience being a reason to keep it in Hamilton, but that is obviously a weak reason compared to the need to ensure a fair trial. Perhaps the fact that Hamilton has a high population, and hence a large jury pool, combined with the thorough jury selection process, was considered sufficient to mitigate the risk of bias (compared to the alternative of holding the trial in another jurisdiction)?

 

[Ashley96]

This is from an American site, but I imagine it's similiar here in Canada?

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/change-venue-criminal-case.html

[FONT=&amp]Negative pretrial publicity is the most common reason for seeking a change of venue. But some publicity won’t justify a venue change—the publicity has to be severe enough to the point that it affects the ability to find an impartial jury. (Lawyers often refer to publicity having “tainted” the jury pool.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]To get a venue change based on publicity, courts usually require that the defense show that the media coverage caused actual prejudice in the prospective jurors’ minds. In rare cases, sufficiently pervasive, sensational, and slanted publicity will cause the court to presume that there’s prejudice.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]In most cases though, the motion for venue change will turn on what prospective jurors say during voir dire (a normal part of jury selection). But proving that a few would-be jurors are actually biased isn’t enough. The defense typically has to show a likelihood that the publicity has poisoned the entire "pool."[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]The ultimate test for prejudice is whether jurors can set aside any opinions they may have formed from the publicity and decide the case only on the in-court evidence. But most jurors will say they can do that. So, the judge may have to probe.

I assume the jurors passed the test.


[/FONT]

 

[Maple1]

Does anyone know if some of interrogation videos with LE in this case will be released.
Possibly still under a pub ban? I know both MS and DM did not really speak to LE, but it would be interesting to see demeanor?
They released video in the Williams case and in the M Rafferty trial somthat is why I am wondering.
Also they showed a bit of MS LE interrogation during the actual trial when he was being question by Sachat lawyer for Millard defense?

Only on about page 5 of this thread, so this may of been asked and answered? TIA.

 

[DMB]

Does anyone know if some of interrogation videos with LE in this case will be released.
Possibly still under a pub ban? I know both MS and DM did not really speak to LE, but it would be interesting to see demeanor?
They released video in the Williams case and in the M Rafferty trial somthat is why I am wondering.
Also they showed a bit of MS LE interrogation during the actual trial when he was being question by Sachat lawyer for Millard defense?

Only on about page 5 of this thread, so this may of been asked and answered? TIA.

I've been asking that myself. It would be interesting to see a little more then those few minutes when he asked for a lawyer. I believe the interrogation would have lasted quite some time and video evidence of MS suffering from Crack withdrawal would definitely prove NS's claim that MS was a Crack Addict/Dealer. It's interesting to see how he came from a small time cigarette peddler at high school at the beginning of the trial to todays main focus, his big time Crack dealings and addiction. I would also love to see/hear AM's, SS's & MH's interviews and just how much and what was changed and possibly what lies had been told. Also DM, we have the letters to see how he was pondering his defence but exactly what was his angle at the onset. Could he also have asked for a lawyer as well??

 

[hellkat2]

For all you people are making Iisho out to be the biggest, most scary criminal ever, it's time to give his Red Shoes promo video another watch. Smich and Millard are way scarier.

You must be joking. How many murders got committed from the guns he was pedaling? But you are correct...he isn't big and he isn't scary.....but he is a criminal.....and he did the crime and he gonna do the time. End of story for me. One less wannabee rappa off the street

 

[otto]

Canadian Girl quote: My question is, if it's evidence that can't be used against someone anyways, then why is it admissible in the first place? Which is why I said it doesn't matter who introduced it

Again, if I am interpreting it right...bad character evidence can't be used to prove Smich guilty, but because there are two accused, and Smich took the stand and opened himself to cross exam and because Millard has a right to a full answer and defense, Millards lawyer is able to bring up relevant evidence that reflects poorly on Smich because Millard's defense is that millard didn't do it, and a key part of that defense is necessarily that smich did (had motive, state of mind etc).. but at this point it's about proving Millard innocent (reasonable doubt)...not about proving Smich guilty. And that's why it's admissible.

It's confusing...and at first glance seems contradictory...but I guess it's all just part and parcel of our judicial system that needs to address everyone's rights when they weigh the admissibility of evidence...

Does this answer that question?

Because of this high and inherent prejudice, evidence of the bad character of the accused is presumptively inadmissible when led by the Crown.
[73] The situation is different, however, when one accused seeks to lead evidence of the bad character of a co-accused, in cases where what is known as a "cut-throat" defense is raised by one of the accused against the other. This is where two accused are jointly tried, each with equal opportunity to commit the crime and each alleging that the other committed it: see R. v. Suzack (2000), 141 C.C.C. (3d) 449 (Ont. C.A.) at para. 72. In this scenario, one accused may be permitted to lead propensity evidence against the other accused on the basis of his or her right to make full answer and defense, even though the Crown would not be permitted to lead such evidence: see Suzack at para. 111.

http://jmortonmusings.blogspot.ca/2010/12/bad-character-and-cut-throat-defence.html

Thanks for finding the legal context. That's what I assumed - that the crown did not enter the evidence that is considered to be damaging to Smich's character. I'm going to assume that jurors were aware of the context in which the character 'dirty laundry' was introduced, and that they were able to keep that context separate from the Crown's case, as they should.

 

[hellkat2]

For all you people are making Iisho out to be the biggest, most scary criminal ever, it's time to give his Red Shoes promo video another watch. Smich and Millard are way scarier.

Hi isn't big or scary and his gun pedaling career has now taken a nose dive. You are correct, nobody needs to worry about him cuz he is in jail. Now he is gonna have to worry about everybody else. Sucks to be him now doesn't it.

 

[hellkat2]

Well as it would seem you're the only reporter that I can find to have written anything about MWJ. However back on the MWJ thread you commented about the 14 tat being linked back to Latino gangs in California, the 416 tat as a Toronto gang affiliation, the teardrop tattoo which means murder. Add to that the guy has AK47s in his possession and owned a bullet proof vest. Just to name a few.
He doesn't exactly seem like Mr. Roger's to me. Although his friends say he's nice. MOO

Isho will have lots of new friends in the big house now who will think he is nice too. Maybe he can rap for them.

 

[hellkat2]

I wonder if she'll wrap herself up in a scarf on the way to the courtroom.

Maybe CN and Mama Millard will support each other through this next stretch. Some nice Chardonnay.....Cote De Rhone.....Merlot.....a nice hotel to avoid the press. They know how to do it.

 

[otto]

My list of complaints wasn't all about the lawyers. People were listing off why MS was guilty and would include that he didn't graduate high school, et al. That was happening even early in the trial.

IIRC, most of that type of stuff in the court room came from DM's lawyer NS. At times it was like he was comparing him to some paragon of wholesomeness -- given the paragon was a little kid, eg, he asked didn't they play Snakes and Ladders? Monopoly? MS answered they'd rather play video games. The next topic was his grade 10 education and repeated questions about why he dropped out of school. I can't figure out the relevance.

OTOH, Dungey, MS's lawyer, kept referring to video games as "killing games" when AM, DM's roomie and good friend, was on the stand resulting in legal arguments.

The judge did address it in his charge to the jury, saying they were to draw no inferences about the characterizations the lawyers made about video games and that neither were on trial for their lifestyle choices. Somewhere I read that the judge's comments about video games included that he knew people who played them, but I cannot find it. Ah ha!

Later, Goodman expressed “judicial notice” that playing Halo was not as deviant as suggested.

“It’s more popular than I was aware. Many individuals play that game now,” Goodman said, adding after a pause, “including people I know.”​

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...jury-didnt-hear-in-the-tim-bosma-murder-trial

It would not surprise me at all to learn that prosecutors were playing Halo when the game was first released. Playing killing video games is not an indication of deviant behaviour. Neither is dropping out of school in Grade 10. If Mark Smich dropped out of school in Grade 10 and wanted to move to Calgary, perhaps he (and so many others like him) wanted to get into the well paying construction trade - which required no education during the construction boom (that recently ended with drop in the price of oil).

 

[SnooperDuper]

I've been asking that myself. It would be interesting to see a little more then those few minutes when he asked for a lawyer. I believe the interrogation would have lasted quite some time and video evidence of MS suffering from Crack withdrawal would definitely prove NS's claim that MS was a Crack Addict/Dealer. It's interesting to see how he came from a small time cigarette peddler at high school at the beginning of the trial to todays main focus, his big time Crack dealings and addiction. I would also love to see/hear AM's, SS's & MH's interviews and just how much and what was changed and possibly what lies had been told. Also DM, we have the letters to see how he was pondering his defence but exactly what was his angle at the onset. Could he also have asked for a lawyer as well??

No one has ever said that MS used crack.

If you are addicted to crack, you're too messed up to deal.

 

[hellkat2]

Then there's the infatuation with shooting someone in the eye as AB herself talks about here:

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/201...ll-faces-millard-related-weapons-charges.html

"Big Iisho has such an ongoing fascination with people being shot in the eye. For example, in this “creep *advertiser censored* ontario south toronto” recording circa 2007, he sings the lyrics are “shoot a man in his eye socket twice, he be quick to start jerking, twittering, twitching and moving.” This has been a disturbing obsession of Big Iisho’s for quite some time. And it’s all the more peculiar, given that Matthew Ward-Jackson is accused of selling Dellen Millard the illegal gun he allegedly used to kill his father, Wayne MIllard, who is reported to have been shot in the eye."

But then AB seems to have been charmed enough by all his great character references :

"Based on this diverse but unanimous chorus of character references, I have concluded that Matthew Ward-Jackson, more than anything else, resembles a character in an Elmore Leonard novel, one of those aspiring small-time hoods and con artists who — thanks to dumb mistakes and bad judgment — unwittingly get caught up in far more dangerous and deadly capers."

Very insightful re the Elmore leonard novel. I think that the individuals that are in need of individuals to carry out their dangerous and deadly capers choose individuals just like Isho.

 

[hellkat2]

I think it's kind of dangerous any way for the public, the general, untrained public, to go around speculating on who might be a psychopath, sociopath or have personality disorders. I'd guess the vast majority of the public isn't trained in the field to be able to make that call, and even if they were, without one-on-one face time in counselling sessions, such a "diagnosis" would be irresponsible at best. In this case, obviously there is something wrong with both DM and MS for them to be able to do what they did, but none of us really know what that wrong thing is. Me personally, I'd call it plain old fashioned evil, the same way SB sees it.

moo.

Very happy that SB does not have to worry about MS and DM cruising any where near her or her family for many years.

 

[hellkat2]

I'm pretty sure I've read almost every (trial) post here and I honestly can't say I've seen folks making this tool out to be the biggest, most scary criminal ever. I'm sure it's possible I've missed posts, though.

ETA: I quit reading the individual threads a long time ago.

What does a scary criminal look like?

 

[otto]

IMO, there wasn't a corner of Ontario where you could hide from this story.

There wasn't a corner in the country where you could hide from this story. It was as widespread, and of as much concern, as the disappearance of Jessica Lloyd. It is National News when a completely normal, law abiding person vanishes under suspicious circumstances. A change of venue would make no difference in the verdict.