Verdict: GUILTY for both Millard and Smich of 1st degree murder #2

[andreww]

Marijuana from the fields, oxy from pharmacies, ecstasy from illegal manufacturing, heroin and cocaine from overseas...let me tell you there is no one-stop shopping for all these drugs from diverse sources.

MS and DM were both deeply involved in the drug trade if they had made all of these connections.

There is no evidence that Smich dealt anything but weed. There isn't any evidence that Millard dealt anything but weed either. The talk of cocaine and heroin was in regards to use not dealing as I recall.

 

[SnooperDuper]

There is no evidence that Smich dealt anything but weed. There isn't any evidence that Millard dealt anything but weed either. The talk of cocaine and heroin was in regards to use not dealing as I recall.

To the contrary, MS has convictions for dealing in cocaine and mushrooms, and that was admitted at trial.

Goodman did not allow evidence of anything other than the weed and the convictions in the trial, sure, but in the voir dires a lot came out. I think you have to look at all the evidence if you are looking at these guys' full lives.

It's not fair to say that everything that wasn't admitted to trial did not happen. The trial evidence did not truly present the big picture, IMO.

 

[andreww]

There are still guys out there killing that haven't been caught, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Island_serial_killer

Yes, there are more challenges to being a serial killer these days, but there are still guys out there that are finding a way.

The example you listed hasn't struck in over 6 years, and the majority of his suspected victims were a decade before that. Technology has gotten better and better and in the last decade the number of cameras out there has multiplied exponentially. There will always be an exception, and a guy killing hookers is less likely to be in a neighbourhood with cameras. Millard got away with two killings, but both of those were already in his lair. Once he expanded outside of that safety zone it took less than 5 days for him to be caught. There is no possible way that he could have continued for very long.

 

[andreww]

To the contrary, MS has convictions for dealing in cocaine and mushrooms, and that was admitted at trial.

Goodman did not allow evidence of anything other than the weed and the convictions in the trial, sure, but in the voir dires a lot came out. I think you have to look at all the evidence if you are looking at these guys' full lives.

It's not fair to say that everything that wasn't admitted to trial did not happen. The trial evidence did not truly present the big picture, IMO.

Sorry, I forgot about those earlier convictions. But nonetheless, Smich was broke, had no car, home or assets. Seems to me he's a pretty small time dealer, probably buying small quantities and cutting them in to even smaller quantities and selling them to high school kids, making enough to buy smokes, beer and his own weed.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Sorry, I forgot about those earlier convictions. But nonetheless, Smich was broke, had no car, home or assets. Seems to me he's a pretty small time dealer, probably buying small quantities and cutting them in to even smaller quantities and selling them to high school kids, making enough to buy smokes, beer and his own weed.

He was on oxy too, and that's big bucks. I think he needed more money than you think to support his habit. That one "orange guy" was worth $60 and that is just one pill, one day.

 

[SnooperDuper]

The example you listed hasn't struck in over 6 years, and the majority of his suspected victims were a decade before that. Technology has gotten better and better and in the last decade the number of cameras out there has multiplied exponentially. There will always be an exception, and a guy killing hookers is less likely to be in a neighbourhood with cameras. Millard got away with two killings, but both of those were already in his lair. Once he expanded outside of that safety zone it took less than 5 days for him to be caught. There is no possible way that he could have continued for very long.

Then why are there so many "unsolved murders" websites on the net?

Lots of murders are still slipping between the cracks.

If it is so easy to catch murderers, why is the Travis Vader case not a slam dunk?

 

[Typhoo1961]

I don't think there are any more murders.

Never say never.

 

[Webulls]

BBM. That is tue, but at one point I did post a list of literally hundreds of rappers that had been involved in murders. I challenge you or Mr Pillay to produce a similar list of Opera stars.

Doesn't have to be opera stars either. Can be just regular rock & rollers and your point holds true.

 

[canadiangirl]

He was on oxy too, and that's big bucks. I think he needed more money than you think to support his habit. That one "orange guy" was worth $60 and that is just one pill, one day.

Not if it's a prescription for a sore shoulder which they both claimed to have. MS had the appt on his calendar for the doctor. Who knows what he was legally prescribed. It doesn't cost $60 for one pill at a pharmacy for a legit prescription.

 

[canadiangirl]

Doesn't have to be opera stars either. Can be just regular rock & rollers and your point holds true.

So that being said, it's not limited to the rap genre.

 

[Mscree]

Not if it's a prescription for a sore shoulder which they both claimed to have. MS had the appt on his calendar for the doctor. Who knows what he was legally prescribed. It doesn't cost $60 for one pill at a pharmacy for a legit prescription.

Then why ask Millard for an orange guy if he had a script? Doctors don't give out that level of pain meds on a visit. He only had an Mri I don't believe he got a chance to see that dr to see if he could get a prescription for medical marijuana

 

[canadiangirl]

Then why ask Millard for an orange guy if he had a script? Doctors don't give out that level of pain meds on a visit. He only had an Mri I don't believe he got a chance to see that dr to see if he could get a prescription for medical marijuana

It's possible DM sold the hard stuff and MS sold weed. We all know DM toolbox didnt contain weed. And we've heard MS had the scales for weed. So, possible DM sold the hard stuff and sold on MS behalf if he had the connections that could afford it. Purely speculation as we don't know.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Then why ask Millard for an orange guy if he had a script? Doctors don't give out that level of pain meds on a visit. He only had an Mri I don't believe he got a chance to see that dr to see if he could get a prescription for medical marijuana

Do we know if MS did or did not see a doctor already for the pain? He said it was on ongoing problem, so I assume he seen his GP. As for no doctor precribing it, my doctor did on my first visit to her, for my back and hips. Took three out of that script of 60..one every 12 hours. They made me very sick and like a Zombie. I had to change pain meds. So I guess it depends on each doctor.

 

[Georgeo]

Then why ask Millard for an orange guy if he had a script? Doctors don't give out that level of pain meds on a visit. He only had an Mri I don't believe he got a chance to see that dr to see if he could get a prescription for medical marijuana

Wonder why Dungey didn't call the doctor to the witness stand, to verify whether MS saw him for shoulder problem. Just because the doctor apt was on a calendar, doesn't mean he actually kept the appointment. In fact, I think I recall reading that MS was arrested the day before the alleged doctor appt.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Do we know if MS did or did not see a doctor already for the pain? He said it was on ongoing problem, so I assume he seen his GP. As for no doctor precribing it, my doctor did on my first visit to her, for my back and hips. Took three out of that script of 60..one every 12 hours. They made me very sick and like a Zombie. I had to change pain meds. So I guess it depends on each doctor.

If the doc had MS's full medical history (s)he would be hesitant to prescribe to him. He was a heavy alcohol and marijuana user, and based on the alcohol use only, he wouldn't be able to get opiates based on prescribing standards.

He'd have "high risk for addiction" on his file and any doctor would be loathe to prescribe to him.

 

[Tiggertoo]

Never say never.

Agree. To me it seems like buying an incinerator may have been to streamline the process they had already started.

 

[deugirtni]

Interesting opinion piece from lawyer Russell Silverstein:

GD: Life in prison with no parole eligibility for 25 years. Is that to be expected in a first degree murder charge?

RS: It's mandatory. That's what the Criminal Code says must be the sentence. It can't be greater, it can' be less. In the case of these men, they're also facing trial for more murder charges and if they're convicted, the likelihood of getting out of prison is zero. Millard is charged with killing a former girlfriend and Smich is charged as a co-accused in that murder. Millard also faces charges of murder in connection with the death of his father.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/tim-bosma-lawyer-1.3641583

I wonder how he can say such a thing with such confidence. Take MS, he's been given the max.. with parole eligibility in 25 years (prob less his time already spent, and not sure if they still allow extra for the time spent prior to trial?.. there seems to be conflicting information in that regard).. then he has another murder trial .. say he is found not guilty (since this opinion person can't say what the verdict will be before the trial).. how does he figure MS will never see the light of day? Perhaps a different story if he ends up being convicted of 1st degree in LB's murder, but at this point, it seems like a pretty bold statement, imho.

 

[deugirtni]

If the doc had MS's full medical history (s)he would be hesitant to prescribe to him. He was a heavy alcohol and marijuana user, and based on the alcohol use only, he wouldn't be able to get opiates based on prescribing standards.

He'd have "high risk for addiction" on his file and any doctor would be loathe to prescribe to him.

That is true, IF you can count on all doctors to be of such high standard, and to do their due diligence before prescribing.

 

[Georgeo]

That is true, IF you can count on all doctors to be of such high standard, and to do their due diligence before prescribing.

Would his doctor even know he is into drugs and alcohol? Doubt MS would offer that information freely......

 

[deugirtni]

I think MS testified that he didn't receive medication or treatment for his injury:

These tweets are from May 17th, and sorry, but read from the bottom up:

Lisa Hepfner ?@HefCHCHNews 7m7 minutes ago
Smich still talking about his shoulder injury. He was never prescribed drugs for it

molly hayes ?@mollyhayes 8m8 minutes ago
He asks if any medical specialist or naturopath gave him any treatment for it. He says no. #Bosma

Alex Pierson ?@AlexpiersonAMP 8m8 minutes ago
Smich can't recall the advice DM gave him. Maybe he can see the texts?? @AM900CHML

Susan Clairmont ?@susanclairmont 8m8 minutes ago
Smich says he went for an X-ray "years before May 6." "It was ok for a little while." Says popped it back in place. No surgery or therapy.

molly hayes ?@mollyhayes 8m8 minutes ago
Sachak asks if he'd been prescribed any medication for it. Not that he can recall. #Bosma

Adam Carter ?@AdamCarterCBC 8m8 minutes ago
Smich says he didn't get any treatment for his shoulder before May 6, 2013. #TimBosma #Bosma

Alex Pierson ?@AlexpiersonAMP 8m8 minutes ago
Says injury happened well before may 6th. Had it checked out. All was fine. never had it treated. @AM900CHML

molly hayes ?@mollyhayes 9m9 minutes ago
He did not go for any therapy or treatment for his shoulder, he says. #Bosma

Adam Carter ?@AdamCarterCBC 9m9 minutes ago
Smich never had an operation before May 6. His shoulder would dislocate. #TimBosma #Bosma

molly hayes ?@mollyhayes 9m9 minutes ago
Sachak asks if he ever had it operated on before May 6, 2013. Smich says no. It'd be Ok for a while and then get bad again. #Bosma

molly hayes ?@mollyhayes 9m9 minutes ago
And then it became a problem again after that. This would've been years before May 2013, he says. #Bosma

Adam Carter ?@AdamCarterCBC 9m9 minutes ago
Smich says it was an "ongoing problem." #TimBosma #Bosma

molly hayes ?@mollyhayes 10m10 minutes ago
Smich says the first time he went to get it checked out it had popped back into place so they told him things were fine.

Alex Pierson ?@AlexpiersonAMP 10m10 minutes ago
Smich describing relationship. Close. Millard gave him $. Now asking about his shoulder injury. MS can't remember when he injured it.

Adam Carter ?@AdamCarterCBC 10m10 minutes ago
Smich says his shoulder was bothering him for a few years before May 6, 2013. #TimBosma #Bosma

molly hayes ?@mollyhayes 10m10 minutes ago
He thinks the shoulder injury came after meeting Dellen Millard, but isn't sure. It was his left shoulder. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ?@HefCHCHNews 10m10 minutes ago
Smich says his shoulder injury was a problem for years. Probably after he met Millard but he's not sure.

Susan Clairmont ?@susanclairmont 10m10 minutes ago
Smich had his shoulder injury "over a few years." Thinks it happened after he met Dellen. #bosma

molly hayes ?@mollyhayes 11m11 minutes ago
Sachak listing pieces of advice Millard gave him re: shoulder injury. Asks for how long he had the injury. Smich says years. #Bosma

Adam Carter ?@AdamCarterCBC 11m11 minutes ago
Smich says he could answer more exactly if his memory was refreshed through texts. Sachak says he won't do that. #TimBosma #Bosma

Susan Clairmont ?@susanclairmont 11m11 minutes ago
Millard gave him advice in relation to his shoulder injury? Smich says he can't remember exactly what the advice was.

molly hayes ?@mollyhayes 11m11 minutes ago
Smich says if Sachak would be "so kind" as to show him texts he could agree. Sachak says he's not showing him anything. #Bosma

Lisa Hepfner ?@HefCHCHNews 11m11 minutes ago
Millard would give Smich advice about his shoulder injury. Stretch. Smich says he can't recall exact words but he got advice.

Adam Carter ?@AdamCarterCBC 12m12 minutes ago
Smich agrees that Millard also gave him advice in regards to the shoulder injury Smich had. #TimBosma #Bosma

molly hayes ?@mollyhayes 12m12 minutes ago
Millard gave Smich advice about his shoulder injury. Smich doesn't recall exact words but agrees. #Bosma