Verdict: GUILTY for both Millard and Smich of 1st degree murder

[canadiangirl]

I must have missed those posts. There was no way a jury could have come back with a unanimous verdict in that little time, not after almost 5 months of trial and 2 defendants.

You did. I agree, but others didn't. And that's ok

 

[Stirner]

Do you think seeing MS testify and his earnest talking - effected you into thinking this guy couldn't of possibly done it?

Way past the point of debating since what's done is done, but I think in the end to find MS not guilty even after the additional facts - there must either be a) a lower standard of reasonable doubt than most, b) sympathy for MS after seeing a guy who seemed nice and composed on the stand, or c) giving DM way too much credit that he's a smart criminal who could actually come up with a plan to frame MS.

Who knows why so many people thought MS was telling the truth, but this article in the Vancouver Sun from May 25th, 2016, might explain some of it:

"....Antidepressants increase our sensitivity to the pain of others, but they also reduce our willingness to punish wrongdoers and increase our tolerance of injustice."

Also, most people think they are capable of thinking rationally, while in reality most people aren't. Only people with an active, working knowledge of the cognitive pitfalls that prevent humans from thinking critically could even hope to train themselves to avoid or confront those pitfalls. Confirmation bias is something that most people don't even realize exists, and even those who do are resistant to the idea that they passively relinquish control over their faculties, reducing perceived mental acumen to little more than an ego-stroking exercise. An article on ArsTechnica explains, "Humans tend to flatter themselves by thinking they have the capacity to perform elaborate feats of moral reasoning, deeply considering possible consequences before arriving at an ethical decision. The reality is somewhat less flattering; a number of studies suggest we make moral decisions quickly and with a heavy reliance on our emotional response. Any reasoning that takes place tends to involve after-the-fact attempts to rationalize our decision..."

Juries don't convict on reasonable doubt or lack thereof, they render their decisions based on their emotions.

 

[NashBridges2]

What link and what news story? It's my opinion as per my signature line - that's why I have it in my signature line

So you're assuming the jury had doubts that Smich was guilty of murder1? I'd hope they wouldn't convict someone they thought was innocent, especially after standing up in court and agreeing they voted and believed he was guilty.

 

[Tricia]

Next person who is rude to another member will receive a long vacation from me.

This forum is not about your opinions about other posters.

It makes me very angry when I see a member think their opinion of another member is so important that they can stop the discussion of the actual topic to post about what they think.

Play nice please.

Tricia

 

[canadiangirl]

So you're assuming the jury had doubts that Smich was guilty of murder1? I'd hope they wouldn't convict someone they thought was innocent, especially after standing up in court and agreeing they voted and believed he was guilty.

I assume they didn't all just walk into the jury room and say, well, their both guilty. I could be wrong about that, but I doubt it.
Other posters have said, if you disagree in the jury room, that you'd feel pressure to go with the majority and you'd be hated for speaking out.
Is that a fact? I'm not sure. I suppose anything is possible.
I would like to believe they all feel they made the right decision, I wouldn't be able to live with myself personally if I did something just because I felt pressured.
But not everyone is strong willed, and not everyone stands up for themselves and their beliefs. So it's hard to say

 

[MsSherlock]

I must have missed those posts. There was no way a jury could have come back with a unanimous verdict in that little time, not after almost 5 months of trial and 2 defendants.

Agree. IMHO, the Jury worked diligently and with focus over their days of deliberation. The evidence against DM & MS was overwhelming even though at times it got buried deep.

I've been here pretty well from the beginning of this case and would like to extend a heart felt thanks to WS's for this incredible forum and all of the WS mod's for their tireless efforts to keep it all civil. sillybilly- you did an amazing job!!!

I'm happy to see this outcome- the Jury rendered the right verdict and I'm sure that now as they finally get a chance to read about all the things they didn't hear, they're breathing a sigh of relief- knowing they took DM and MS off the streets for 25 years.

To all the people who supported DM and MS for one reason or another- for every single person who believed in their innocence, my sincere sympathies to you now knowing that they are guilty as charged. These two guys have not only murdered an innocent man, they have ripped the souls from many people who desperately wanted to believe that they were innocent.

Here's to SB and the rest of the Bosma army- the Crown, LE and everyone else who had incredible faith that DM and MS would not get away with this. :great:

 

[SnooperDuper]

I assume they didn't all just walk into the jury room and say, well, their both guilty. I could be wrong about that, but I doubt it.
Other posters have said, if you disagree in the jury room, that you'd feel pressure to go with the majority and you'd be hated for speaking out.
Is that a fact? I'm not sure. I suppose anything is possible.
I would like to believe they all feel they made the right decision, I wouldn't be able to live with myself personally if I did something just because I felt pressured.
But not everyone is strong willed, and not everyone stands up for themselves and their beliefs. So it's hard to say

All of the jury members were polled individually and asked if they agreed with the verdict and every one of them said that they did.

 

[leafs_fan93]

I haven't been around for a couple of weeks. Why do you doubt that MS is guilty of first degree murder?

A number of things, but to name a few, MM changing her testimony days before taking the stand to say that MS was happy the next morning, the lack of blood/GSR etc in the Yukon, and I found his series of events more plausible than the other two versions. The crown lost me when they said he was shot in the field the Yukon had been parked in. And seeing DMs antics over the last few days, I think the "lunatic dell" situation really could have happened.

By no means am I saying he's not guilty of anything, I'm just not convinced on first degree. But I do respect the jury's decision and trust they got it right.

 

[canadiangirl]

All of the jury members were polled individually and asked if they agreed with the verdict and every one of them said that they did.

Yes I know the formal procedure. I also read the comments that were flying here saying if you thought different, you'd give into the pressures of everyone else in the room.
I respect the jury's decision, I've always said that. There is no discussion needed about that. They are the judges, not us. Just as Justice Goodman said

 

[NashBridges2]

I assume they didn't all just walk into the jury room and say, well, their both guilty. I could be wrong about that, but I doubt it.
Other posters have said, if you disagree in the jury room, that you'd feel pressure to go with the majority and you'd be hated for speaking out.
Is that a fact? I'm not sure. I suppose anything is possible.
I would like to believe they all feel they made the right decision, I wouldn't be able to live with myself personally if I did something just because I felt pressured.
But not everyone is strong willed, and not everyone stands up for themselves and their beliefs. So it's hard to say

I'm going to continue to have faith in the jury that gave up their lives for 5 months, who sat in court day after day, delay after delay, heard 100s of hours of testimony. I have faith and belief that tonight, will be the best sleep that they have had in months. I have faith that each and every one of them made the best decision for him/her and that they can live with their choices. It's time to let go of the "reasonable doubt" and to accept that just maybe, the jury made the right choice, with the information they believed to be true. That really does happen.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Who knows why so many people thought MS was telling the truth, but this article in the Vancouver Sun from May 25th, 2016, might explain some of it:

"....Antidepressants increase our sensitivity to the pain of others, but they also reduce our willingness to punish wrongdoers and increase our tolerance of injustice."

Also, most people think they are capable of thinking rationally, while in reality most people aren't. Only people with an active, working knowledge of the cognitive pitfalls that prevent humans from thinking critically could even hope to train themselves to avoid or confront those pitfalls. Confirmation bias is something that most people don't even realize exists, and even those who do are resistant to the idea that they passively relinquish control over their faculties, reducing perceived mental acumen to little more than an ego-stroking exercise. An article on ArsTechnica explains, "Humans tend to flatter themselves by thinking they have the capacity to perform elaborate feats of moral reasoning, deeply considering possible consequences before arriving at an ethical decision. The reality is somewhat less flattering; a number of studies suggest we make moral decisions quickly and with a heavy reliance on our emotional response. Any reasoning that takes place tends to involve after-the-fact attempts to rationalize our decision..."

Juries don't convict on reasonable doubt or lack thereof, they render their decisions based on their emotions.

So your saying these people who had doubt about MS are on antidepressants? Really?

Also the jury CAN'T make a decision based on emotions. They are told this during the Judges Charges. They must follow the evidence and use common sense where needed.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6...st-in-their-faith-through-heartache-and-pain/

Hank and Mary plan to attend Noudga's trial in November. The "Bosma Army" of supporters will be there too.

"Millard and Smich swept the Eliminator out and threw it in the garbage. That's my son."

Though Hank and Mary smile through their tears, they are haunted.

 

[canadiangirl]

I'm going to continue to have faith in the jury that gave up their lives for 5 months, who sat in court day after day, delay after delay, heard 100s of hours of testimony. I have faith and belief that tonight, will be the best sleep that they have had in months. I have faith that each and every one of them made the best decision for him/her and that they can live with their choices. It's time to let go of the "reasonable doubt" and to accept that just maybe, the jury made the right choice, with the information they believed to be true. That really does happen.

Thank you for your opinion. I find it interesting that others are speaking out tonight about the reasonable doubt they also have. Again it doesn't change the verdict.
But it does show to me not everyone speaks their mind for one reason or another.
It also really does happen that innocent people (and yes I'll get jumped all over the term innocent, so I suppose I should put a disclaimer that I don't feel anyone is innocent).
But innocent people are incarcerated. And that really does happen as well.

 

[dar107]

A number of things, but to name a few, MM changing her testimony days before taking the stand to say that MS was happy the next morning, the lack of blood/GSR etc in the Yukon, and I found his series of events more plausible than the other two versions. The crown lost me when they said he was shot in the field the Yukon had been parked in. And seeing DMs antics over the last few days, I think the "lunatic dell" situation really could have happened.

By no means am I saying he's not guilty of anything, I'm just not convinced on first degree. But I do react the jury's decision and trust they got it right.

Great post and I agree with much of what you say. Having a difference of opinion or not being 100% sure of MS being guilty of M1 does not make one a "fan" or supporter or innocence crusader. I have not seen any posts portraying that. Not everything is black and white for all. I respect everyones opinions and contributions to the board.

Now on MS once all the other trials are over and I hear about the evidence in Laura's trial I may be eating crow or may not be. We shall see. But I always try to stay humble and enjoy the reasons this great site exists.

 

[ABro]

A number of things, but to name a few, MM changing her testimony days before taking the stand to say that MS was happy the next morning, the lack of blood/GSR etc in the Yukon, and I found his series of events more plausible than the other two versions. The crown lost me when they said he was shot in the field the Yukon had been parked in. And seeing DMs antics over the last few days, I think the "lunatic dell" situation really could have happened.

By no means am I saying he's not guilty of anything, I'm just not convinced on first degree. But I do respect the jury's decision and trust they got it right.

MM did not change her testimony. She always said Dellen was happy he got the truck.

She added details -- about celebration and Smich's participation.

During her original police interview, MM lied and said she didn't know about the incinerator and that she had cancelled Smich's cellphone randomly.

She was in major denial and was desperately trying to believe Smich, the guy she loved, wasn't involved. It took her awhile to be able to admit -- even to herself -- that he was celebrating Tim Bosma's death.

No one was able to shake her on this point.

Why else would she have talked about a celebration if it weren't true?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6...st-in-their-faith-through-heartache-and-pain/

They will spend lots of time with Tim and Sharlene's daughter, who is five. She has her father's looks and her mother's feistiness.

Every night when she says her prayers, she looks up, says, "Good night, Daddy," and blows Tim a kiss.

Once she asked: "Is God done with Daddy? When is he going to bring him back?"

 

[Stirner]

So you're assuming the jury had doubts that Smich was guilty of murder1? I'd hope they wouldn't convict someone they thought was innocent, especially after standing up in court and agreeing they voted and believed he was guilty.

If they didn't have doubts they wouldn't have deliberated for 5 days. There were obviously one or more jurors holding out, and for whatever reason, after 5 days of ruminations the hold-out(s) decided to go with the majority.

 

[Arnie M]

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6...st-in-their-faith-through-heartache-and-pain/
Hank and Mary plan to attend Noudga's trial in November. The "Bosma Army" of supporters will be there too.

Haaa ... good one .... that will sure pizz Dellen off .... I love it .... GO Bosma Army GO... !!!!!!

I hope they smile and wave and smirk at him once in a while. It will drive him bananas

And they should all wear red shoes

 

[CJPRINCESS]

MM did not change her testimony. She always said Dellen was happy he got the truck.

She added details -- about celebration and Smich's participation.

During her original police interview, MM lied and said she didn't know about the incinerator and that she had cancelled Smich's cellphone randomly.

She was in major denial and was desperately trying to believe Smich, the guy she loved, wasn't involved. It took her awhile to be able to admit -- even to herself -- that he was celebrating Tim Bosma's death.

No one was able to shake her on this point.

Why else would she have talked about a celebration if it weren't true?

Oh but Dungy did. Guess she forgot 10 days later! She said "Dell was happy when she got into the SUV" But ''they both said the mission went well"

Meneses says she was frustrated, but when she got in the SUV, Millard seemed very happy. "Dell told you he got the truck, right?" Dungey says. "They both told me that the mission went well," Meneses says.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-smich-millard-hamilton-trial-1.3553144

And people lie! People will add more spin on things. Why? Who the heck knows...but they can and they do.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

This is what I found...anyone else dig up more?
The fox-dam, hunger-pined, will slay the felon sire 1165.19 Ivan 355
...stumped but I know it will get figured out

Please let us all know when you do [emoji4]


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