Verdict: GUILTY for both Millard and Smich of 1st degree murder

[SnooperDuper]

A number of things, but to name a few, MM changing her testimony days before taking the stand to say that MS was happy the next morning, the lack of blood/GSR etc in the Yukon, and I found his series of events more plausible than the other two versions. The crown lost me when they said he was shot in the field the Yukon had been parked in. And seeing DMs antics over the last few days, I think the "lunatic dell" situation really could have happened.

By no means am I saying he's not guilty of anything, I'm just not convinced on first degree. But I do respect the jury's decision and trust they got it right.

Suppose "Dell did everything" and the only thing MS did was drive the Yukon...if MS knew of that plan and was into helping out, he's guilty of first degree murder as an "aider" to DM. MS never had to be deeply involved, just knowing and willing. There'd be no blood/GSR in the Yukon, either.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

<modsnip>

Ah, but is there any way for the judge or anyone else to determine if that is in fact what the jurors are doing in their minds? The fact the judge has to make such a request just shows that its a desperate attempt to keep up appearances....

Nope because it's a secret. I guess we can only hope Jury's don't make verdicts on emotions.

 

[Just4TB]

So yes, after the long recess for the judge to prepare something to say (as you know, all 3 lawyers asked to go ahead with the sentencing today)

He walked back into the court from the side door where he comes from, and he looked much more intimidating, cocky and aggressive. He had a tall posture, shoulders out, cold face and locked eyes with SB on purpose, staring her down and really they were only several feet apart (but it was safe with lots of officers.)

Family/friends reacted loudly shouting things at him (hard to make out, as it was quickly shot down with an 'order in the court!' His lawyers hustled over (and the police came in even closer a bit) and the lawyers tried to talk him down it looked, by whispering face to face with him.

It seemed to me that he either blames SB somehow (typical narcissistic, sociopath behaviour of not taking any responsibility I would speculate) or was maybe trying to just scare her for later, like in a threatening way. The thing is though, she stared at him right back and held it. I do think she started crying a few moments later and was shaken up, but I'm not 100% sure because I was a few rows back and I don't want to be inaccurate..

Wow, just wow!! Thanks for sharing this inside view of what transpired.
SB was super awesome smart for opting out of a victim impact statement today, thereby denying DM the opportunity to "enjoy" listening to how he caused her to suffer. And, now SB never has to look at DM or MS again. I speculate this was the reason for DM glare at SB. She outsmarted him on this move and he was none too happy about that.

 

[Melzack]

That is an interesting article and may very well be the case for some individuals, but I take an antidepressant and I always believed that MS was just as guilty as DM. I think it's human to want to see goodness in people but this was not the case with these two. However, Smich did show way more respect in court and the way Millard was described as staring at Sharlene sounds really scary. He really is the devil and I'm sure his lawyers were even scared of him too. All of you are really knowledgeable on here and I really liked reading about your theories and expertise. Even if I didn't contribute much, I feel that this is a respectful forum. On Another group there are people saying really vile things and starting to sound evil and twisted themselves.

 

[lauriej]

--this senseless murder has, and will, continue to affect so many..

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6...st-in-their-faith-through-heartache-and-pain/

Hank and Mary plan to attend Noudga's trial in November. The "Bosma Army" of supporters will be there too. There were also witnesses who restored the Bosmas' faith in the kindness of people.


They are indebted to the manufacturer of The Eliminator, who voluntarily came from Georgia to testify. (The Crown can't subpoena someone outside Canada.) After he gave his evidence, the Bosmas followed him out to thank him. He was devastated, he said, that his livestock incinerator was used to destroy a human being.


He gave the family a donation to Tim's Tribute, the charitable organization Sharlene started to help families of homicide victims.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

In the beginning, Hank and Mary knew little about what happened to Tim. Homicide detectives and Crown attorneys told them few details. That is the way it is done to protect the integrity of the case.

Not knowing how their son died was almost unbearable.

"That was the hardest part," Mary says. "Not knowing his last moments, how he died. Did he suffer? Did they torture him? Did they burn him alive?"
http://m.thespec.com/news-story/672...ast-in-their-faith-through-heartache-and-pain

I seriously didn't think that LE would or could do this (as I and others was told they couldn't ) but apparently that thought was wrong! That had to be horrific thinking about all that on top of the actual loss of Tim

So with that now known for sure, the same could be going on in Lauras case? The LE really knows and just won't release any information? Man, I feel so much pain for Lauras family as well. I couldn't bare not knowing.

May these two demented-demons stay in jail with NO parole...ever! Sure DM, those are as nice of words I can say. Not sure that's what you had in mind when you said "people will say nice thing about me again" or maybe it was?! Mark, your rap tunes suck, can't wait to hear about your rapping jailhouse experience lyrics

Tim, you can finally rest in peace! Justice was finally served!

 

[CJPRINCESS]

There was Arthur Jennings, who did his co-op at the Millardair hangar and recognized Tim's truck sitting in there from the news.

He phoned Crime Stoppers with the VIN and confirmed it was Tim's truck.

"People call him a hero," Hank says angrily of Jennings. What people seem to forget is Jennings refused to tell Crime Stoppers where the truck was. "He's no hero."

Right from Hanks mouth! I agree!!

 

[Arnie M]

.

Well I am glad this trial is over , time for a long vacation , profound thanks to so many members here who have provided intelligent and spirited conversations and discussions , you know who you are , in many ways we are armchair detectives and jurors trying to analyze and educate ourselves about the crime that lives in our society .... because we dont want it to happen again.

By its very nature true crime discussions require raw truth , so beware the speech police and the thought police and the politically correct police , they will always try to muzzle folks like upstanding Veterinarian Robert Burns who correctly described Dellen Millard as .... “a sick twisted prick.” .... those were the most truthful words in this whole case. Thank you Robert.

I am always comforted by the strong Christian faith of the Bosma family , they know Tim is in a safe place now and evil will never enter there.



Best wishes from the best seat in the house

.

 

[mimimic]

Accessory to murder can be tricky to prove and there's a range of sentences.

We haven't seen all the evidence against Noudga <modsnip>

The cops took their time arresting her and her lawyer didn't ask for bail for 4 months. That indicates he was being cautious. You don't let your client sit in jail four months for nothing.

ABro, if you haven't yet, could you explain this more?

 

[ABro]

ABro, if you haven't yet, could you explain this more?

It's very difficult to appeal a bail ruling so lawyers need to have all their ducks in a row before applying for bail.

IN Xtina's case, it took the lawyer months (as opposed to days for many accused) before he applied for bail.

That's how long he felt he needed to prepare the case because if he lost it would be very difficult to get a second try and she might still be in jail.

 

[Baaasil]

If they didn't have doubts they wouldn't have deliberated for 5 days. There were obviously one or more jurors holding out, and for whatever reason, after 5 days of ruminations the hold-out(s) decided to go with the majority.

You can't assume this at all (and it's almost certainly wrong).

The actual deiberarion time was probably around 30-35 hours (accounting for meals, delays, etc).

That's not a lot of time to cover all of the evidence in this case and think about two different accused and what that evidence says about then. Not only was there a lot of evidence but some evidence could only be used against one or the other of the accused.

Taking 30-35 hours to review everything and talk about it in a group of 12 people is most likely just taking their duty very seriously and not a sign that someone was holding out.

Edit: Think about how long it took the judge to even just summarize a portion of the evidence for the jury.

 

[Baaasil]

Oh but Dungy did. Guess she forgot 10 days later! She said "Dell was happy when she got into the SUV" But ''they both said the mission went well"

Meneses says she was frustrated, but when she got in the SUV, Millard seemed very happy. "Dell told you he got the truck, right?" Dungey says. "They both told me that the mission went well," Meneses says.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-smich-millard-hamilton-trial-1.3553144

And people lie! People will add more spin on things. Why? Who the heck knows...but they can and they do.

I don't see how TD got her to change her testimony there. Saying one person was happy doesn't mean the other person wasn't as well.

Anyway, I agree that people lie. But you need to take into account the motivations. If a detail that would hurt MS was omitted by MM in her early police statements when she was still deeply in love with him but was added later (under oath) when she was no longer in love with him - which seems more likely: She made up the detail later and lied under oath or she was just trying to protect MS originally?

So sure, if something like this (mood in car the next morning) was all there was pointing to MS it wouldn't be enough to go beyond reasonable doubts. But it goes a long way. And when you combine it with even a couple of other equivalent (and independent) pieces of evidence there is no reasonable doubt left.

 

[MsSherlock]

In the beginning, Hank and Mary knew little about what happened to Tim. Homicide detectives and Crown attorneys told them few details. That is the way it is done to protect the integrity of the case.

Not knowing how their son died was almost unbearable.

"That was the hardest part," Mary says. "Not knowing his last moments, how he died. Did he suffer? Did they torture him? Did they burn him alive?"
http://m.thespec.com/news-story/672...ast-in-their-faith-through-heartache-and-pain

I seriously didn't think that LE would or could do this (as I and others was told they couldn't ) but apparently that thought was wrong! That had to be horrific thinking about all that on top of the actual loss of Tim

So with that now known for sure, the same could be going on in Lauras case? The LE really knows and just won't release any information? Man, I feel so much pain for Lauras family as well. I couldn't bare not knowing.

May these two demented-demons stay in jail with NO parole...ever! Sure DM, those are as nice of words I can say. Not sure that's what you had in mind when you said "people will say nice thing about me again" or maybe it was?! Mark, your rap tunes suck, can't wait to hear about your rapping jailhouse experience lyrics

Tim, you can finally rest in peace! Justice was finally served!

This trial has really given me a tremendous amount of insight into how our criminal justice system works. I'm a lot more confident now knowing that when a Jury returns a verdict that they've done so knowing the highest level of evidence and that there was at least as much evidence against the accused that, for one reason or another, they never heard during the trial. In a case like this one where there are co-accused, the admissible evidence seems to get pruned out even more. Definitely puts more pressure on the Crown to make every piece of admissible evidence count.

One of the more intriguing elements of this trial was DM's wealth and the his ability to manipulate things from behind bars via MB. I felt nauseous when I heard of how MB was willing to turn a blind eye to the justice system for the sake of her son, followed by the obvious loyalty he had by people like SS, LW1 & LW2 when they hit the stand. I feel a sense of comfort this morning knowing that rich entitled murderers are treated the same as low life scum bags. DM can manipulate all he wants now- maybe it'll get him an extra chocolate bar or something. MB can carry him in stacks of mail from all of his pals and they can all line up to visit him and chat- if they so desire, but IMHO, DM will simply become "someone that they use to know". DM is of no use to them anymore and he never will be. MB, who BTW, seemed to be MIA for the entire trial, including the verdict and sentencing, seems to have already started her life sentence. She'd be better served trying to make amends with her brother and enjoying her nieces and nephews rather than continue the manipulation merry-go-round that her son has had her on.

I doubt that DM will have any supporters left for the WM and LB trials. He's toast. TB's trial was the big one against him and he was found guilty- any supporters he did have will have a hard time publicly decreeing his innocence in the other two cases. "Too bad Dellen. You had the world by the tail. You had a father who would have given you anything." Rather than making something out of the millions he was born into, he killed off the one person who loved him "unconditionally"- his father. I somehow think that if CN or WM were alive, they would have been in court for the verdict and sentencing. I think the next two trials will contain a lot more evidence and be much faster. MOO

 

[Tiggertoo]

IMO some of the witnesses were able to create a feeling of reasonable doubt with regard to MS but their credibility was so low that when I put their testimony up against all the other info there was no doubt to me that MS got the right conviction. I think that MS presented himself so much better than DM that it helped get some people on side. That said, DMs standard was so low that MS didn't have to do that much to look the more normal of the two. IMO he is just a bit more in control of him self than adam but is every bit the killer.

 

[Mscree]

Very interesting comment from a judge. Maybe I'm not the only one who had some doubt.

Don't count your chickens just yet, it's over victim impact statements

 

[Typhoo1961]

I somehow think that if CN or WM were alive, they would have been in court for the verdict and sentencing.

I think you mean LB.

 

[Mscree]

I do because I was off the fence for a bit, then on the fence untill he testified. That knocked me right back off. I also seen other fence sitters fall off at that time as well.

I was on for a small amount of time until I really looked at his testimony and the tweets then I firmly stood my ground.I still think he is a liar and right where he belongs

 

[Inspector_North]

If they didn't have doubts they wouldn't have deliberated for 5 days. There were obviously one or more jurors holding out, and for whatever reason, after 5 days of ruminations the hold-out(s) decided to go with the majority.

We will never know what went on in the jury room, but I sure hope it's not as you speculate. A Criminal lawyer on CBC said he was not surprised at the length of time it took. He sees it as a jury that took their responsibility serious.

This trial had a mountain of evidence and nearly 100 witnesses, and along with the adversarial defense from both teams, the length of deliberations is relative. IMO, the jurors demonstrated integrity.

MOO

 

[hellkat2]

"For over three years, we have waited for justice for Tim," she said. "For three years we have been in and out of this courthouse, forced to look at, and breathe in the same space as the utter depths of depravity in our society. "We have had to endure being near the two men that walked down my driveway on May 6, 2013, and took away the bright light in our lives that was Tim." Sharlene Bosma.
Bitter angry tears when I read this excerpt in the paper because never has there been a more accurate depiction of what has gone on to get to justice. And the painful process to get to it for the family of the victim.
The Bosmas walk away with a void that can never be filled and they will live with as best they can. The Bosma family has this life sentence. Although First Degree murder it is the best Canada can give it will never be enough for what these two did. I would prefer that they be sitting on death row. I apologize if this offends anyone. My prayers are with the Bosma's for their journey forward.

 

[hellkat2]

It was the grandfather that made the money and WM and DM had a lot in common. I don't think the apple fell far from the tree IMO from what I have read.