Verdict Suggests Juries are Tired of Theoretical Justice & Circumstancial Evidence

[Steft50]

I didn't mean everyone but some of the ideas that she put duct tape across Caylee's face to kill her just doesn't make any sense to me at all. Especially when you are speculating with evidence that has a skull and duct tape. She wasn't found with duct tape on her face, she was so decomposed. So how in the world are people coming up with that as the cause of death.

BBM

I think this is what JA was trying to get Spitz to explain and in the end Spitz couldn't explain it except by getting frustrated and making accusations that there was NO evidence to support except his words.

The duct tape was found still attached to Caylees hair and the jaw area, keeping the lower jaw in place on the skull on one side (if I understood correctly). There would be only two directions for that tape to have come from...wrapped around the back of her head, or wrapped around her face. Which makes the most sense?

 

[chefmom]

Why doesn't it make sense? Asking a group of people to vote for the execution of someone based on circumstantial evidence is a hard thing to do.

I guess if you have no problem with the death penalty even if you are wrong then it's ok. But I think most people would want to be sure before signing off on that.

I understand what you are saying, Chewy, but we have to remember that these jurors were asked specifically if they would have a problem giving someone a death sentence if they felt that was the proper sentence. This has nothing to do with guilt or innocence. They all knew going in that this was a death penalty case. They were also instructed not to consider the penalty when making their decision of guilt or innocence. They were not supposed to be voting on her penalty yet. They clearly did not follow the judges orders.

 

[whiteangora]

About 35 years ago I was friends with several members of a family. I had known them for over 10 years before we all got married. All great parents, settled into a life of raising kids, hardworking husbands, wives that were very involved in the schools and the care of their children. There were a group of us young parents all just starting out.

It was 4th of July weekend. A party at the home where there was a in ground pool. There were many people in the pool, at a BBQ and unfortunately the 3 year old daughter of this friend got stuck under a pool float and drowned. She knew how to swim and swam every day.

Now she was noticed to be missing within minutes, 30 people searched high and low in the house, in the pool, in the yard, in the streets and neighbor's yards. It wasn't until they pulled that float out of the pool that they found her.

What did they do with her lifeless body? They picked her up, did CPR to attempt to revive her, while someone dialed 911. But it was too late. She died.

The mother was admitted to the hospital in terrible shape, the father totally broken and couldn't work for a long time in his own business. They had such horrible grief and were in so much pain that they eventually divorced. They could not get past their own personal grief or despair enough to maintain their marriage. They were not out in the bars, they were not in hot body contests, they were not getting tattoos, they were not lying to police about where this child was. They could hardly lift their heads off of the pillow after sleepless nights for months and months and months.

They didn't lie to the police they didn't dump her body in a bag in the swamp. NO they did what anyone would do given an accidental drowning they dialed 911 and frantically tried to save their daughter's life. And when she couldn't be saved they did the next most difficult thing in the world they held a funeral for their daughter and she was buried with dignity.

There were no charges against these parents. Their actions, their demeanor, their statements to the police all proved it was a horrible accidental drowning. There was no question about that.

Accidental drowning covered up to look like a murder? NO. That just doesn't happen.

Thank you so much for posting the terribly sad story. This is the way normal people react when there is an accident. If only the SA could have read that story to the jury at closing.

 

[Chewy]

About 35 years ago I was friends with several members of a family. I had known them for over 10 years before we all got married. All great parents, settled into a life of raising kids, hardworking husbands, wives that were very involved in the schools and the care of their children. There were a group of us young parents all just starting out.

It was 4th of July weekend. A party at the home where there was a in ground pool. There were many people in the pool, at a BBQ and unfortunately the 3 year old daughter of this friend got stuck under a pool float and drowned. She knew how to swim and swam every day.

Now she was noticed to be missing within minutes, 30 people searched high and low in the house, in the pool, in the yard, in the streets and neighbor's yards. It wasn't until they pulled that float out of the pool that they found her.

What did they do with her lifeless body? They picked her up, did CPR to attempt to revive her, while someone dialed 911. But it was too late. She died.

The mother was admitted to the hospital in terrible shape, the father totally broken and couldn't work for a long time in his own business. They had such horrible grief and were in so much pain that they eventually divorced. They could not get past their own personal grief or despair enough to maintain their marriage. They were not out in the bars, they were not in hot body contests, they were not getting tattoos, they were not lying to police about where this child was. They could hardly lift their heads off of the pillow after sleepless nights for months and months and months.

They didn't lie to the police they didn't dump her body in a bag in the swamp. NO they did what anyone would do given an accidental drowning they dialed 911 and frantically tried to save their daughter's life. And when she couldn't be saved they did the next most difficult thing in the world they held a funeral for their daughter and she was buried with dignity.

There were no charges against these parents. Their actions, their demeanor, their statements to the police all proved it was a horrible accidental drowning. There was no question about that.

Accidental drowning covered up to look like a murder? NO. That just doesn't happen.

So sorry about your friend.


This is why I don't believe the accidental drowning either or the premeditated murder because she could have easily faked it.


She dumped her kid in the car because she didn't give a crap about her, she just wanted to party. When she died she just kept partying on.

She should have been given LWOP IMHO.

 

[AliVada]

It may well be that we expect things to be more apparent like an episode of csi? Oddly, Casey doesnt strike me as all that intelligent and yet she walked. Look how long people were searching and the whole time she was at the end of the street in a swamp, literally the first empty land in relation with the house and so any cell pings from the dump appeared that she was at or near her home.

At least with Scott Peterson he went to the sf bay, then returned several times while Laci was missing. So his cell pings tied him to that bay where she was eventually found on the shore.

It is very frustrating, as we all want justice and yet we all want to be sure when making a conviction. This jury wanted a motive and what i do not think they understood is there is NO UNDERSTANDING the truly mentally ill like Casey, so the fact that her total narcissism and jealousy of her parents affection transferring to Caylee being the motive is not something most people can understand.

Most of us are hard wired to love babies - I feel in fact Casey's want to be the center of attention and be seen as a good mom even though she had other feelings she knew to hide. It was that that turned so many witnesses for the state into defense witnesses by them all saying she was a good mother, or amazing as per Mallory.

I actually feel like she is so mental that if and when she decides to have another baby - she will act her head off to prove everyone how wrong we are. Not saying she would be a good mother but saying appearances will be very deceiving.

They were already in this family - we are all sure there is 100% dysfunction and then arse covering in protecting their own. there is sooooo much we will never know and you know if it is hidden - it is bad.

 

[annalia]

If I wanted to stage something to look like a kidnapping I'd put duct tape across the person's mouth. I can't see why you wouldn't get that would be something a person who wanted to stage it like a kidnapping would do?

I can see the possibility, but the evidence doesn't support that, so it's just a theory. She never called anyone to report any kidnapping.

 

[Chewy]

BBM

I think this is what JA was trying to get Spitz to explain and in the end Spitz couldn't explain it except by getting frustrated and making accusations that there was NO evidence to support except his words.

The duct tape was found still attached to Caylees hair and the jaw area, keeping the lower jaw in place on the skull on one side (if I understood correctly). There would be only two directions for that tape to have come from...wrapped around the back of her head, or wrapped around her face. Which makes the most sense?

I agree that she put duct tape on her face. But I believe she did it after the death in an attempt to make it look like a kidnapping.

Why? Because how ELSE could she explain Caylee's Cause of Death? I also think maybe she tried to take her home and dump her in the pool but realized that she'd never get away with it. Perhaps she'd been dead too long and as she was trying to put her in the pool she realized rigor mortis had already set in and she'd never get away with it.

So she puts her back in the car. And borrowing the shovel? I doubt she used it. Maybe she borrowed it and then realized she couldn't bury her without being seen so she gave up on it.

There's no doubt in my mind that Casey killed Caylee and tried to cover it up. That's why I think she should have gotten aggravated child abuse. And during sentencing, her depravity, behavior afterward and lying to the police should have gotten her 25 years in prison at the very least. If not LWOP.

 

[magnolia]

Please someone correct me if I am wrong: BUT, didn't the Prosecution leave out the detailed reports of Casey's whereabouts, as reflected by her cell phone pings, and the detailed reports of the frantic calls, the text and IM messaging from late on the 15th through the evening hours of the 16th....when she and Tony went to Blockbuster?

Why was none of this brought in? Perhaps this is why the jury did not see some of what we already knew.

I really don't think it would have made a difference. It's obvious this Jury fell for the DT's fantasy theory early on.

 

[Chewy]

I can see the possibility, but the evidence doesn't support that, so it's just a theory. She never called anyone to report any kidnapping.

I think she wanted to pretend everything was fine and then would turn around and say that Zanny suddenly ran off, she never told anyone that she was kidnapped either.

I think this is because it dawned on her that as long as she stayed away from her parents and told her friends everything was fine, she'd have a lot of time to put between her and the body.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

It may well be that we expect things to be more apparent like an episode of csi? Oddly, Casey doesnt strike me as all that intelligent and yet she walked. Look how long people were searching and the whole time she was at the end of the street in a swamp, literally the first empty land in relation with the house and so any cell pings from the dump appeared that she was at or near her home.

At least with Scott Peterson he went to the sf bay, then returned several times while Laci was missing. So his cell pings tied him to that bay where she was eventually found on the shore.

It is very frustrating, as we all want justice and yet we all want to be sure when making a conviction. This jury wanted a motive and what i do not think they understood is there is NO UNDERSTANDING the truly mentally ill like Casey, so the fact that her total narcissism and jealousy of her parents affection transferring to Caylee being the motive is not something most people can understand.

Most of us are hard wired to love babies - I feel in fact Casey's want to be the center of attention and be seen as a good mom even though she had other feelings she knew to hide. It was that that turned so many witnesses for the state into defense witnesses by them all saying she was a good mother, or amazing as per Mallory.

I actually feel like she is so mental that if and when she decides to have another baby - she will act her head off to prove everyone how wrong we are. Not saying she would be a good mother but saying appearances will be very deceiving.

They were already in this family - we are all sure there is 100% dysfunction and then arse covering in protecting their own. there is sooooo much we will never know and you know if it is hidden - it is bad.

I don't see why you would lump people with mental illness in with ICA. She was not diagnosed with anything and besides, mental illness does not cause people to do what she did.

 

[DIXIECAT]

Why doesn't it make sense? Asking a group of people to vote for the execution of someone based on circumstantial evidence is a hard thing to do.

I guess if you have no problem with the death penalty even if you are wrong then it's ok. But I think most people would want to be sure before signing off on that.

The third count did not have the DP attached to it... that jury simply was too lazy and/or ignorant to read and understand the charges. MOO

 

[Chewy]

Like I said, my jaw hit the floor when she got off on that. I couldn't believe it.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I have been all over the place with my theories.

1. My first was that it was cold, premeditated murder.
2. My second was that it was a chloroform accident and coverup.
3. My third was that it was murder and GA caught FCA trying to bury Caylee in the yard and assisted with the coverup.

I have been all over the place but if I were a juror there would have been a mistrial. I am 100% certain that I would not have let off. I may have negotiated to a lesser degree than first but she would not have walked. Why? A child is dead and she is culpable.

Everyone loves HHJP and I thought I did too. Then I sat back and realized that he severely rushed the jury selction process, the trial, and gave the jury the impression (by working on a Holiday) to hurry up and get this done. He also gave way too much leeway to the defenses "theory" because of his fear of a mistrial.

JMO....

I'm not a fan of HHJP anymore. I think he got all the little things right, but the few crucial things wrong. I agree with the jury selection being rushed and of course some of them never should have been jurors on this case. JB was allowed to get away with so much - that opening statement should NEVER have been allowed. They lied and scammed their way through the trial after how many discovery violations, contempt findings, etc? Disgraceful.

 

[annalia]

I think she wanted to pretend everything was fine and then would turn around and say that Zanny suddenly ran off, she never told anyone that she was kidnapped either.

I think this is because it dawned on her that as long as she stayed away from her parents and told her friends everything was fine, she'd have a lot of time to put between her and the body.

I hear what you're saying, but these are all theories, just like many of the other theories here.

The jury was supposed to go on the evidence presented. How could the jury entertain a fake kidnap scenario when Casey was out partying, never reported her child missing and could have easily concluded that she would have gone even longer had her car not been towed and Cindy not call 911?

If she was trying to fake a kidnap, it didn't show in the evidence.

JMHO

 

[Baznme]

I can see the possibility, but the evidence doesn't support that, so it's just a theory. She never called anyone to report any kidnapping.

But.....she did say...."zanny took her".........followed by the story of being pushed to the ground at J. Blanchard park. Difficult trying to find reality in a pack of lies.

 

[tehcloser]

"THE CASEY Anthony verdict made one thing perfectly clear: Juries are tired of theoretical justice and circumstantial evidence.

Nah......what it proved to me is society has been "dumbed down". They don't want to have to actually think about anything.........they want the "app" that does it for them.

 

[Puzzler]

I didn't mean everyone but some of the ideas that she put duct tape across Caylee's face to kill her just doesn't make any sense to me at all. Especially when you are speculating with evidence that has a skull and duct tape. She wasn't found with duct tape on her face, she was so decomposed. So how in the world are people coming up with that as the cause of death.

Three overlapped pieces of duct tape were still stuck together, and both ends were still stuck to Caylee's hair. They had to cut the hair to free the duct tape. The ME concluded that the duct tape had been applied prior to decomposition and that is what had held the mandible in place--which is not what usually happens when a skull decomposes, the mandible normally falls away. Hence, there was duct tape over Caylee's face. A single piece would have been enough to cover the nose and mouth, if it were applied in the right place. Three overlapped pieces would definitely block a toddler's airways. If the pieces had not been stuck in the hair, the duct tape and the mandible would have fallen away as the head decomposed (sorry for image).

Duct tape has been used before to smother people, including children. (I can hunt up some links if you wish.) There was also chloroform present in this case, which may or may not have contributed. Chloroform was originally used to anesthetize children for medical procedures, but it fell out of favor because too many children died. It's possible Caylee died of chloroform before suffocating from duct tape, and we can never know that.

However, I don't need to know the exact cause of death to know this was a homicide, and neither did the ME. The tape applied to a toddler's face is enough.

 

[annalia]

I'm not a fan of HHJP anymore. I think he got all the little things right, but the few crucial things wrong. I agree with the jury selection being rushed and of course some of them never should have been jurors on this case. JB was allowed to get away with so much - that opening statement should NEVER have been allowed. They lied and scammed their way through the trial after how many discovery violations, contempt findings, etc? Disgraceful.

Good points. Another thing I found extremely disturbing was the way the female defense attorney, (was her name Sims, the same one that was jumping up and down after the verdict) kept fondling Casey during the trial. Hugging her, holding her hand, stroking her, I found it highly inappropriate and thought it was being intentionally done to make Casey look like the victim. I was waiting for the judge to put a stop to it.

 

[Chewy]

I guess we see it different ways. Yes this is theory but based on the evidence shown.


The entire time Caylee was missing Casey told her friends that she was being babysat by Zenaida.

So she is establishing this fake person that existed over a month. She can't just say "OMIGOD SOMEONE STOLE MY BABY!" too many questions, why did she leave Caylee with her, etc. what's her phone number etc.

By saying she was a long term sitter, she's establishing a history with this character which would explain if she didn't have up to date information but instead old information.

When Zenaida disappeared she said in her prison phone calls that she thought LE should look into NYC and other places that she had lived before. So it's a child taken out of state.

This is what she's establishing for several weeks.

 

[annalia]

But.....she did say...."zanny took her".........followed by the story of being pushed to the ground at J. Blanchard park. Difficult trying to find reality in a pack of lies.

After she was caught over a month later and Cindy notified police. My point was if she was trying to stage a kidnapping, she would have reported her missing. The evidence presented shows her out partying instead.