Verdict Watch 05/04/ and 05/05/2013

[kayice]

The first link I provided says a knife to that superior (or inferior) vena cava is usually not survivable, due to the time getting help.

Anyone consider Ms. Arias was placing her sites on her target areas in that camera viewer when Travis was in the shower, where her knife was to land. Wonder how many times she fantasized about it and went over it in her head? I bet if one looked at the shower pics, ole Jodi hit her targets bulls-eye. Stabby Einstein couldn't get more premeditated then that.

 

[Kensie]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/customavatars/avatar97228_5.gif

Thanks so much. I am on an IPad and I am problems changing my avatar. For some reason when I try to save the link I get an error. I will change it Monday when I am on a computer.

 

[Words2Serve]

I asked on the legal thread if the juror's can request transcripts of certain testimony and they CAN NOT! They have to rely on their notes and memory. That explains why Nurmi lied, hoping they don't remember...

It makes no sense at all. Is this about justice, or a test of the juror's memories and how well they take notes?

They can ask and it is at the judge's discretion, the judge prefers them to rely on the memory and notes, but I am sure if it came down to the jurors debating over specific testimony she would allow it. I guess that both sides and the defendant have to be called back into the court for the testimony to be read back. That is my understanding

ETA: I hope they ask and the judge reads it back just so they can nail the DT and 'shed that light of truth' on their lies

 

[Hatfield]

JMO but there are also a lot of people against the death penalty...

I wonder about that during deliberations.

I may be wrong and JMO, but
Arent the jurors supposed to not worry about penalty at all? I am not sure how it works, but I think they are supposed to just decide on whether Murder 1 is the verdict or Murder 2 or Manslaughter. I dont think they are to even consider penalty till after verdict.

So, if I am right and they follow instuctions, then Murder 1 should not be an issue for them.

I think if she gets Murder 1, then the 2 options for penalty phase would be LWOP or DP.

 

[SuperTmo]

Bringing this over from the last thread...



I never said that Travis raped Jodi. I said that Nurmi IS correct that penetrating a sleeping woman is rape because she is not in a condition to give consent. It's exactly the same thing as penetrating a woman who is passed out or otherwise unconscious. I have no idea why ANYONE would try to argue this FACT that someone who is asleep is not in a condition where they are ABLE to give consent.

I also said that between many couples this is acceptable behavior because the consent is implied as they both KNOW that the consent is implied are ok with doing this. Though I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want to be treated like nothing more than a semen receptacle and particularly by someone that they believe loves or at least cares for them. If a guy can't be BOTHERED to wake you up first and make sexual advances FIRST to see if you are interested in having sex at that time then I have a lot of choice four letter words for someone like that.

I also said that in the case of Jodi and Travis, Jodi said herself that she enjoyed it when he woke her up by having sex with her, and OBVIOUSLY in that case it is not rape because of the implied consent - they both KNEW that this activity was something that they were ok with doing. And I also said that I don't believe it ever happened at all anyway, and this is just one more of Jodi's many fabricated sex stories. Sorry, but I just can't believe that Travis was the kind of person (particularly being so inexperienced with sex compared to the average non-Mormon unmarried male) would be so gross and selfish to do something like that even if he knew she was ok with it.

Just because Jodi is a murdering monster is no reason to pretend that penetrating a woman when she is asleep and therefore cannot consent to sex is not rape and no big deal. And AGAIN, I'm NOT saying that this is what happened to Jodi with Travis. In their particular case it was either implied consent since Jodi said that she enjoyed it or just another one of her infinite fabricated sex stories.

Again, all I was doing was correcting another person's post about this that Nurmi IS correct that penetrating a women when she is asleep and therefore unable to give consent to sex is rape according to the law and according to anyone with even a modicum of a moral compass. What he was incorrect about was that Travis did this to Jodi and trying to claim it was rape when she said herself that she enjoyed it and therefore there was implied consent between them.

Just because you have a sexual relationship with someone does not give that someone all sexual rights to your body as though you were nothing more than a lump of flesh that said someone owns.

Incidently, just because someone was raped 5 years ago doesn't make it any less rape just because they never go to the police about it or even tell anyone at all about it. How sick a society we live in where women are STILL made to feel dirty and ashamed because they were raped. And how sick a society we live in that there are so many people - even women - that actually believe that a man has some God given right to penetrate a woman they have a sexual relationship with while she is asleep and unable to give consent.

I'm way behind on this thread, and so I apologize if this has been said. Then again it warrants being said again:

Regardless of the whens, hows, or whys of those twos' sexual interactions... TRAVIS did not RAPE JODI ARIAS! Or anyone else for that matter. Ever. I'd bet my house on it.

If Travis had raped JA, she would not have said on the phone recording asking Travis if he remembered starting to have sex w/ her while she was sleeping and then saying, "that was HOT." If she was taken advantage of in any way, shape, or form, I hardly think she would be heard initiating a conversation about that interaction and then expressing a positive thought about it. She sure didn't think it was rape at the time...

She probably went on and on talking about her sex life w/ ALV and ALV zeroed in on that one escapade and said, "well, that is rape" and wove it into the DT's story.

 

[Rocco]

They can ask and it is at the judge's discretion, the judge prefers them to rely on the memory and notes, but I am sure if it came down to the jurors debating over specific testimony she would allow it. I guess that both sides and the defendant have to be called back into the court for the testimony to be read back. That is my understanding

That's my understanding too of what the Judge said when she read the instructions.

 

[Truth Detector]

While that may prevent cuts, wouldn't the towel slip more easily on the knife handle than her hand and impair her grip?

Just a thought.

I think she used the towel that was missing from the bathroom to wrap the handle of the knife when she was stabbing him, and that was why it was so bloody; that is how she kept more of her fingers from getting cut up.

There was likely a towel used, alright.

As a silencer for Gramps' stolen .25.

 

[jacalyn]

i'm jumping the gun here. But when it comes time for the victim impact statements, i hope ja has to sit there and listen, with no paper or pencils on the table in front of her.

or knives and guns.

 

[Karraster]

Good thing Juror 3 is still there with her copious notes!

Saw you on the news, you looked great! Very classy, and such a great advocate and rep for the A family. Thank you!:seeya:

 

[kssgdby]

There is heavy rain here in northeast Florida tonight, as I sit and pray and hope and cry for Justice for Travis and his beautiful family I have to say I appreciate every person who comes here to offer support and insight and strength to others. That is what it is all about human compassion. I have a son who is the same age as Travis and it hits home that I see him anytime I want, I can hug him, see his smiles, his accomplishments and the thought of all of those "everyday" things being taken away from such an inspirational young man and his family is too much to fathom at times. Hugs to each and every one of you.

 

[DollyPardonMe]

I heard a story on HLN about Travis driving off in a car at a Mormon retreat to take a break from Jodi's 'attention' .. once she saw him in the car driving off she ran after it like a dog! Stories like that, matched with these pictures paint the real Jodi I'm thinking.

How good are the pics .. can we get a thread for whackiest court moments where we can post these and clips?

I posted that story/video on page28

 

[TaraJ27]

Yes, ITA Juan Martinez does in fact ROCK! I, too found his closing arguments to be presented with such reverence and respect for Travis..and especially the respect that Juan has for Travis' siblings who have been there with him not only just throughout these last 4 months of trial..but rather Travis' siblings have been there through this for 5 long years with Juan preparing and pushing this to go to trial so that he could get justice for this family that he knows is long past due..

What I noted in closing arguments was Juan's having made a very real effort to go out of his way to show this uber reverence and respect toward this victim, Travis..as in to try to "right the wrong" that this evil murderer has gone about inflicting throughout the course of this trial.. I felt as tho Juan somehow wanted to express and show this man the dignity and respect that this evil murderer literally and figuratively stripped him of in both life and death.. As tho, to somehow put a proper end to her very literal reign of terror..and IMO Juan did this withOUT going out in a big, flashy bang type of way, but rather to bring to a close this nightmare with a restoration of respect for this man who more than deserves it..I felt as tho it was a perfectly fitting closure of sorts..it just felt "right"...it felt "good"..it felt like there was very real meaning to it and it was not just memorized words from a prosecutor to a jury... I don't know that I'm adequately describing what exactly I mean, but I can only say that it moved me and that I truly felt as tho it was a signifying of Travis' name, Travis' memory being set straight and brought back from the dark, depths of hell that the evil murderer had taken and dragged his name and memory down into in an all out effort to truly continue to slaughter Travis over and over and over..even in death.. I believe this affected Juan..I mean honestly how could that NOT affect someone who has been witness to what this evil individual has done to this victim physically in slaughtering him??...and then going about continuing to slaughter his name, his memory, and his legacy??.. I believe that this long drawn out nightmare with Jodi Arias at the helm has sparked an anger in Juan in his being a man who stands for what is "right".. I believe that he has made it part of his goal in not only successfully prosecuting and convicting Jodi of having murdered Travis...but equally as important was Juan's goal to attempt to somehow "right the wrong" where Travis' name and memory are concerned..and I personally believe that his closing argument was every bit as much about restoring that respect to Travis' name and memory..as much as it was about summing up to the jury Jodi's guilt of the premeditated murder of Travis.

I even got the sense that Juan was attempting to somehow even negate the nastiness, the dirtiness, the seediness of Kirk Nurmi's continually droning on for months about their sexual relationship...Kirk Nurmi's gross way he spoke about every aspect involving sex..the slang, crass, disrespectful way in which Nurmi over dramatized every tiny issue that he could dredge up regarding these grown adults sexual relationship.. I felt as tho Juan, in his closing arguments went out of his way to speak about their sexual relationship with such respect and dignity..even saying to the jurors that they knew that this couple had a sexual relationship and that this sexual relationship was "NORMAL" and that they didn't need the prosecutor to continue on and on with over zealous, salacious, dirty details of these two grown adult Individuals who had an equally consensual sexual relationship.. I really felt like he wanted to somehow take the skankinees.. The dirtiness of this young man's PRIVATE, perfectly normal, respectable sexual relationship, that Jodi, Nurmi, and her defense team had twisted and turned, spewed and spat out of their mouths day in and day out for over 4months ..I felt as tho, Juan wanted to get back to the "real" of it all, away from the seedy, dime store, bad sex novel that Jodi and Nurmi had created and fed to this jury..

I REALLY FELT AS THO JUAN MADE AN EFFORT TO RESTORE THE RESPECT AND DIGNITY TO TRAVIS' AND TRAVIS' MEMORY DURING HIS CLOSING ARGUMENTS.. ..AND IMO HE WAS SUCCESSFUL IN DOING SO and I know for me, the perfect stranger, it is very much appreciated..so, I can only imagine what it meant to Travis' family to have Juan take the time and effort to show such reverence and respect for their brother, Travis..after having witnessed the relentless disrespect, lies, and blasphemy that Jodi and her defense have spewed these past 4 months...

Jmo, but I'd say what Juan has done means the world to Travis' siblings and they have great respect and appreciation for Mr. Martinez fighting so damn hard, and with such fierceness for their brother, Travis...a young man who Mr. Martinez will never even have the chance to meet/know in this life.

Yes! I haven't been able to adequately describe how I felt after closing arguments- I just know that when it was over I started crying. Sad tears of course, but also tears of gratefulness for Juan being... well, Juan. It makes me so mad when people say Juan did x or y for attention because he likes the spotlight. He was just doing what he's spent the last 25 years of his life doing and we happened to be able to watch it. He could make buckets of money in private practice, but he has dedicated his life to being a prosecutor. And a damn good one. That is not the choice of one looking for fame and riches. I believed he puts his heart into all of his cases; and confirmed it when I happened to see on HLN a family sitting outside the courthouse at their outdoor stage area and holding Juan signs. JVM spoke to them and they said Juan prosecuted the man who murdered their cousin and sent him to death row in 2003 (I think?). They said "we consider him our angel" and still became teary talking about him!

Regardless of the jury verdict, there is nothing to blame on Juan IMO. He's experienced & very, very good at what he does. On top of that he put his heart into it. What more can you ask of a person than that?

 

[panthera]

I asked on the legal thread if the juror's can request transcripts of certain testimony and they CAN NOT! They have to rely on their notes and memory. That explains why Nurmi lied, hoping they don't remember...

It makes no sense at all. Is this about justice, or a test of the juror's memories and how well they take notes?

Not even a read-back of testimony? Curious now if they are informed in advance to take scrupulous notes.

:waitasec:

 

[Bluewater_Girl]

It's amazing- I've found this one to be particularly disturbing. The bs in the sequence of events thread is enough to make me violent. :help:

ITA, and I'm floored that we're seeing this kind of comment at WS. This is a pro victims site. We don't always agree on the sequence of events, but the post you've referenced is over the top and defies logic IMO. IDK what to say except that most of us would wonder what the motive is behind that post.

Very JA = creepy.

 

[Kensie]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/customavatars/avatar97228_5.gif

When I look under WS avatars for a cause, I only see one for Susan Powell. I am just so frustrated that I cannot get my avatar changed on my IPad.
I feel so stupid.

 

[Hatfield]

Good thing Juror 3 is still there with her copious notes!

Yes. And you were great today on HLN Weekend Express where they had a clip of you discussing how you helped start the fund for the family and WS was mentioned.

THANK YOU for all you have done for the family!!! You rock :rockon:

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

I wonder about that during deliberations.

I may be wrong and JMO, but
Arent the jurors supposed to not worry about penalty at all? I am not sure how it works, but I think they are supposed to just decide on whether Murder 1 is the verdict or Murder 2 or Manslaughter. I dont think they are to even consider penalty till after verdict.

So, if I am right and they follow instuctions, then Murder 1 should not be an issue for them.

I think if she gets Murder 1, then the 2 options for penalty phase would be LWOP or DP.

If the jurors were being truthful in saying that they would agree with the death penalty if the crime fit or whatever - They are deemed DP "qualified". But if they lied when saying they could agree with the death penalty, well...

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

When I look under WS avatars for a cause, I only see one for Susan Powell. I am just so frustrated that I cannot get my avatar changed on my IPad.
I feel so stupid.

You shouldn't feel stupid at all. I still have the same laptop from 2005 and use a regular telephone. I still communicate just fine (although it may not be well-received by some.....)

 

[Mrs G Norris]

If the jurors were being truthful in saying that they would agree with the death penalty if the crime fit or whatever - They are deemed DP "qualified". But if they lied when saying they could agree with the death penalty, well...

I think they're legally bound to give her Murder 1 AND the DP .. although I know that doesn't mean it will happen. If they come back with anything less then this time I think the public will demand an explanation. The throat slash alone should be enough for Murder 1, the agony he suffered should be enough for aggravation shown by his struggle at the sink and down the hallway (especially when she had a gun and could have killed him without making him suffer through the stab wounds) .. Mitigators? I don't see any here either. But I wont feel at ease about any of that until it is over .. I hope they really bring who Travis was to life during the penalty phase.

 

[Phoebeb]

When I look under WS avatars for a cause, I only see one for Susan Powell. I am just so frustrated that I cannot get my avatar changed on my IPad.
I feel so stupid.

I had problems too. I hope I just figured out what I did wrong. You have to go to edit avatar on the left, I was trying edit profile pic and it didn't work.