VERDICT WATCH - Sentencing of Jodi Arias - Break 2/27 thru 3/2 #2

[ShadyLady]

I'm not convinced she's a psychopath. I was, through the 2013 trial, and definitely through her testimony on direct (with Nurmi lobbing her softballs), but if you look at how cowed she was after a few days of Juan's cross, that is very incompatible with psychopathy. The nature of a psychopath is to believe unerringly in the power of their own ego, not to break down and fear to even look a questioner in the eye.

But, I think she is playing a role. The role ALV taught her about. Being a victim.

Another fact I found weird, was her collecting all the hate mail to the extent it had to be thrown out. She also said something in Troy's interview about how she took all the attention as a compliment. She thrives with attention, imo.

 

[Lochlynsmom]

Thank you for this! I just went back and rewatched this. Between 13:15 to 14:30 he is discussing the nudes and unallocated space.BBM- he clearly says this about exhibits 164-169 the nudes.

The pics are from June 4, 2008 per sworn testimony

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xga8Q-8viY

At 13:00 images recovered from unallocated discussion begins...

the time DELETED is not there typically you may not recover the date and time

"But in this case these images, when you take them with this camera, it embeds the date and time the camera has set on it to the file itself"


View attachment 70323

Competition bbq

 

[Madeleine74]

As far as I can tell, no one believes TA was an abuser or, more importantly, a pedophile. Haven't heard from one person who truly believes that. So all the mud-slinging has been inside the courtroom courtesy of the defense & the defendant and from some of her rabid followers elsewhere.

Travis' legacy has not been tarnished. His friends still love him, his family still loves him, and thousands of other people who never met him have also come to love him and his spirit. Nothing the defense attempted was able to change that. AND there was no evidence to support their allegations when it came time to put up or shut up during their case in chief.

A defendant can claim anything, but in a courtroom a prosecutor will put those claims to the test (i.e. prove it!). If there is no proof a jury will see that and know that assertion was not proved to them. And in case a jury doesn't get it, a prosecutor reminds them during closing arguments.

That doesn't ensure a jury will decide the way people want, but no one sane coming away from this case believes Arias committed murder because of some convoluted secret pedophile secret relationship *advertiser censored* thing, that doesn't even make sense.

 

[ShadyLady]

I think she viewed this penalty phase retrial as her chance to redo the first trial, her way, not as a chance to present mitigation as WE understand it.

It really bothered her that the first jury believed she premeditated the murder, and it really pizzed her off that Nurmi didn't investigate her accusations of child *advertiser censored* on Travis' computer. Most of all, this retrial was her chance to make her fullest, dirtiest case that Travis deserved to die.

I'm with BritsKate on JA's longer game. I think JA truly believes her guilt verdict will be overturned. LWOP or DP...what difference, then, since she'll be out altogether soon enough. She's 100% adjusted to being in the system already and the DP has all the advantages discussed here so often. Why give the Alexanders the satisfaction of saying she's sorry when she doesn't have to, especially if some folks might get the impression she actually regrets killing him?

Completely agree. She previously told Troy, sisterS and friends saw her bruises, she can't help herself but continues to make the lies even larger.

 

[Madeleine74]

As for the debate about the photos on TA's camera, I'm not sure why there's doubt about them being there from being taken on 6/4. If pictures were 'planted' on the camera by the killer, then why would she have taken some pains to ruin the camera and the card within by washing/bleaching it in the washing machine? That implies she did not want pictures to be found. If she planted pictures she would want them to be found, otherwise what was the point?

The photographs that day were probably to create an atmosphere where Arias could distract Travis. They weren't taken because Arias wanted high quality pictures, the camera was merely a prop to be used. Taking pictures was how Arias was able to get close to Travis while he was in the shower -- another distraction.

Really, it is what it is. She took pictures, she deleted some pictures, she tried to destroy evidence on that camera, and fortunately she failed.

 

[GigiG]

I think she viewed this penalty phase retrial as her chance to redo the first trial, her way, not as a chance to present mitigation as WE understand it.

It really bothered her that the first jury believed she premeditated the murder, and it really pizzed her off that Nurmi didn't investigate her accusations of child *advertiser censored* on Travis' computer. Most of all, this retrial was her chance to make her fullest, dirtiest case that Travis deserved to die.

I'm with BritsKate on JA's longer game. I think JA truly believes her guilt verdict will be overturned. LWOP or DP...what difference, then, since she'll be out altogether soon enough. She's 100% adjusted to being in the system already and the DP has all the advantages discussed here so often. Why give the Alexanders the satisfaction of saying she's sorry when she doesn't have to, especially if some folks might get the impression she actually regrets killing him?

BBM

I agree. That's why Juan had to keep objecting to residual doubt, and was careful not to bring in anything that didn't go against mitigation. He didn't want to open any of those doors.

 

[Steely Dan]

"She works hard for the money."

:giggle:

But, I think she is playing a role. The role ALV taught her about. Being a victim.

Another fact I found weird, was her collecting all the hate mail to the extent it had to be thrown out. She also said something in Troy's interview about how she took all the attention as a compliment. She thrives with attention, imo.

BBM

She aint no Snow White. JMO

 

[TexMex]

As for the debate about the photos on TA's camera, I'm not sure why there's doubt about them being there from being taken on 6/4. If pictures were 'planted' on the camera by the killer, then why would she have taken some pains to ruin the camera and the card within by washing/bleaching it in the washing machine? That implies she did not want pictures to be found. If she planted pictures she would want them to be found, otherwise what was the point?

The photographs that day were probably to create an atmosphere where Arias could distract Travis. They weren't taken because Arias wanted high quality pictures, the camera was merely a prop to be used. Taking pictures was how Arias was able to get close to Travis while he was in the shower -- another distraction.

Really, it is what it is. She took pictures, she deleted some pictures, she tried to destroy evidence on that camera, and fortunately she failed.

Well said. Thank goodness law enforcement was able to recover the camera and time date info on the pics.
Almost a miracle and even captured herself standing over his bleeding body.

 

[TexMex]

:giggle:



BBM

She aint no Snow White. JMO

Maybe HoJo White?

 

[ShadyLady]

:giggle:



BBM

She aint no Snow White. JMO

LOL. :facepalm:

I finally went and googled her nudes. I had seen a couple but not the bald butt one. OMG...now I know what people were talking about. Huge. Sorry...but ugly. Why allow those pictures to be taken. Does she think they were becoming shots?

And I think Flores did say there were other photos, showing them in a sexual act. That's how I understood it.

 

[ICit]

I've been thinking about these and I think the key here is that the nudes were all from unallocated spaces, whereas the shower pics had been newly deleted.

Were there any other pics found in unallocated spaces.. I sure didn't hear any testimony to that effect.

That tells me that the nudes were old deleted pics that had likely been copied over by some of those 90? intact pics that some posters keep referring to so yes, I think the memory stick was an "old" one that had previously had the nudes on, those had been deleted at some point before the 90? pics had been taken, then the shower pics were taken and deleted. The only way I will believe otherwise is if we ever see the exif data report that shows that they had been taken just before the shower pics, which imo will never happen. I agree that it's too late to matter, except for those of us who refuse to believe that TA would have had "relations" with her on that last day, if he had even known she was there until just before she attacked him, and would like to have his character exonerated.

My suspicions are directly related to the testimony regarding the pics. The video of the testimony is below, if you would like to see if you can catch anything that contradicts what I've either transcribed, noted below or speculated about.
------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mJ9A39cWyQ&app=desktop

Nothing on internal camera memory, all pics from memory stick.

12:25
JM - With regard to the items that were deleted were there some that involved Mr. Alexander in the shower?
Det.M - Yes.
JM - Were there also some nudes that appeared people were involved in some sort of sexual activity?
Det.M - Yes.
JM - Was it a man and a woman?
Det.M - Yes.
JM - And then there were also three others that were at the end, right?
Det.M - Yes.
-----------------------------------

Ex.#164-169. From Unallocated space, different from deleted.
Blurry pics are from thumbnails.

To me, this raises a huge red flag, this could have been the result of either misreading a date and reporting it in error(ie. 06/04/08 instead of 04/06/08, that's if indeed the exif data had actually shown a date, there was nothing that stated that the date even showed up with what little exif data was available for the pics that came with the unallocated clusters, just that they took the reported date, that had been created from the Encase report which would have pulled the last date recorded as from the deleted shower pics, which did still have the full exif data still available and the date actually recorded on them from the camera).

Dates and times created from Encase report:
164 - female full body/laying flat nude 1:42:53pm unallocated clusters

165 - female crotch/face down/butt up 1:44pm 6/4/08 unallocated clusters
-looks like there might be daylight coming through the window by the exercise machine

166 - male full nude/sleeping? bottle of personal lubricant(looks like vaseline lotion to me) large light blue bottle/blue top 1:44:50pm unallocated clusters
-can see light coming through the window by the exercise machine.

167 - male full nude/hand up blurry -large blue top/lightblue tv in background 1:47:15 unallocated clusters
-room looks quite bright with daylight

Can't tell what order these last two are compared to the others.
168 - female full body/laying propped up -blurry - small white bottle unallocated clusters no date/time
-room looks quite bright with daylight

169 - female crotch/back down unallocated clusters no date/time
-can't tell room brightness/close shot, looks like flash used
-----------------------------------
Deleted images:
Dates and times put there by the camera itself.
Ex.#141-160 Shower pics. 06/04/08.
5:22pm - 5:30:30pm(face pic)

3 Inadvertent pics:
Ex.#161 - 5:31:14pm Ceiling
Ex.#162 - 5:32:16pm Dragged/Pantleg/foot on tile floor.
Ex.#163 - 5:33:32pm Dragged over floor baseboard?
------------------------------------

I always thought the nude photos were suspect! Her braids, even though the photo was dark, look quite a bit lighter than her full sunshine photo in the car on the way to the murder. The lighting changes in the room for photos taken one right after another?

I looked back and there was a photo of her in the snow that was older. Full sunshine with a hood and you could see that her hair was light brown, not blonde, not black.

Now that we know how big a liar she was and how devious she was and how much she planned ahead I wonder if she had not drugged Travis with a roofie or something a couple of times early on.
She would call that insurance against abandonment or blackmail for money insurance. Remember there were other photos of men's erections on her lost but found phone. I suspect she had something to expose on every man that stuck by her.

What a big challenge it would have been for her to meet a man who had everything she wanted but that was not willing to have sex with her?. She wanted to get her hands on what he had and she was not going to take no for an answer!

We now know that she sent herself at least some of the texts from Travis. She forged the pedo letters. She took his ring and journals and iPod and even the roomates camera. I also believe she took money from him and remember that Juan tried to get Travis's bank information entered but failed.

Why wouldn't we believe that she manufactured everything negative about Travis? That is what a psychopath does. Hone in on what is important to the person and take advantage of it. Have the backup plan in place just in case they do not get what they want. Spy on him, get all his passwords and find out what he is doing every minute of the day. Use his journals, schedules etcetera to manufacture her own story for motel rendezvous. Crawl in through the doggie door and take photos of herself naked on his bed?


This is just my opinion and something I think about while waiting for the death verdict to come.

 

[coffeejunkie]

Brought over from closed thread...


Quote Originally Posted by krkrjx View Post

Peterson murdered a woman and her unborn child. His wife. His child. Advocacy groups do not normally reach out to criminals of his ilk.

Arias is evil, twisted, dangerous. But she is female. Her victim was an adult male.

She deserves no consideration by any group for any reason, but on Death Row she will likely garner some sympathy from one somewhere along the way. I do not think she would get that attention if she gets a Life sentence.

Still, I want her on Death Row.



As you said, krkrjx, advocacy groups wouldn't touch SP with a ten foot pole. A wife and baby killer will not sway public opinion to your side. But a sweet, soft spoken 'girl' who was desperately in love and abused until she had to fight back is a powerful symbol. There are so many 'groups' out there who want to make a statement, whether it be anti DP, pro prison reform, anti DV, political advancement on an anti DP platform, whatever. They need a martyr. JA could be that person if it suits her agenda. She can change herself into anything. She latched onto the omnibus hearing quickly because it suited her needs.

I could care less what JA fills her prison days with. But, with powerful advocates, she could reach out and touch a lot of people. Every time she succeeded in getting a hearing, a motion considered, an appeal requested or granted, the media reports would start. The 'help' group du jour would see to that. The Alexanders would be forced to see her smirk in every newspaper, on line, and on their tv coverage. The lies about Travis would be repeated. They would be contacted by the press, repeatedly. Then the courts would contact them and they would be wrenched from whatever peace they have found to testify again to try to defend their brother and keep her wretched carcass in prison. It would be a never ending cycle. She would never go away.

Then, if political climate changes, she could be released. And the Alexanders would be devastated once again. I want to see her given the DP, but not at the expense of healing and some sort of peaceful future for Travis' family.

Thank you for posting this...I have wondered that myself.

 

[Wizzy]

I'm truly glad you were able to come to terms with an unimaginable tragedy and to find peace. As for the Alexanders. They haven't yet , 7 years later, even had an opportunity to begin grieving in peace.

They've had to spend those years defending Travis' reputation from ever dirtier and very public assaults by his killer. They've had to endure seeing the killer in court and in chambers for years, and to hear about her constantly from the attorney who is trying to put her away for good. They've had to risk jobs and marriages to keep pursuing justice. They've had no break and no peace.

Judging their hearts or what's best for them just isn't right, IMO, even though it's obvious you mean them well.

With all due respect to you and the Alexanders. I'm not judging their hearts, they have stood in court and relaid what they are going thru and what they want is the DP. So, I'm not trying to read their minds or judge them. They still till last week showed how they are effected in court.
Yes they have had to endure a horrible trial and hear horrible things about their brother. They have already received a form of justice. JA was convicted and won't ever be free.

You can't really compare our loss completely to the Alexanders. Our family didn't receive justice in any way shape or form. The hospital didn't do a blood alcohol test on the man that hit them. The stop sign was removed from the site of the wreck. It was there the night of the accident but gone the next morning when the investigator arrived at the scene. Someone was looking out for this guy. My Niece was put on life support for a few weeks until my sister was able to be put in a wheel chair so she could hold her little girl one last time. She endured a different kind of suffering. She had to have brain surgery, her ears had to be sewn back on, her top lip had to be sewn back on, her forehead looked like a road-map. I didn't recognize my own sister the next morning after the accident. It took years of plastic surgery for her to even look like herself. Yes, she suffered for years without even a chance for justice.
I'm glad for the Alexanders opportunity for justice. It was a cruel unwarranted murder. My point and opinion is/was they have said themselves how they feel, I wasn't judging them. They have heavy hearts, no doubt about it. You can't move forward unless you come to terms that your life has to go forward no matter what the circumstances are. Everyone is human, bottom line, most want agree or like it but the road to recovery is to forgive. I guess I can't explain it, you would have to be in that position or a similar place to understand. Some people can't do it and I am so thankful for my sisters faith and strength and her ability to find that forgiveness. Without her ability to release that hate, revenge and the feelings she went through she would have been left a hard, hateful women. My sister is now the opposite, she was given a gift by forgiving, she was blessed with 2 more children, and now has 6 wonderful grandchildren, and most of all she has a forgiving heart. I hope the Alexanders can find the same peace. JMOO.

 

[La-Cooks]

I just saw this on Twitter and found it very interesting.

"sarah ‏@SarahGee1987 9m9 minutes ago
Why capital punishment shouldn't be viewed as "taking lives," but actually saving lives. #JodiArias"

 

[bznbear]

Hi Hatfield, I agree, I don't think they had sex either. Somehow she took her own pics and did it before he woke up or put them on his camera from another source, her computer or her phone. Remember she had a backpack with her computer and camera in a backpack she brought in with her. (if you can believe anything she says) Also she said she had her other camera in the car. I thought at the time, who would leave an electronic appliance in a hot car in the summer in AZ. But the pigtails are weird too. She claimed TA loved them, when did she ever appear in pigtails before? There was something on one of the tapes or texts about pigtails but I think it was her talking about them not him. But you are right we will never know the truth about June 4th from her. I think she will write a book and there are plenty of idiots out there to ghost write it for her. I will boycott it if I can. No one wants to hear more of her lies about TA. She don't have that many fans. Even Shanna Hogan, a noted author didn't sell that many books when JA was front and center in the news. So I don't believe there is a market for anything she would write and besides, The Alexanders would get the money, SOS law.

I've let go of any and all details of what happened that day. I doubt we'll ever know the whole truth, because the only one who could give us that, the killer, won't, ever. What I do still continue to research is the why, though I'm convinced it was narcissistic rage. We all pretty much agree a DX of BPD isn't the answer, not the whole one anyway.

http://www.decision-making-confidence.com/narcissistic-rage.html

Question for anyone who may know, do or can prisoners receive counseling while incarcerated? Can they take tests and receive a complete DX of psychological issues? Not that this killer would ever agree to that, unless there were some tremendous secondary gain for her.

 

[Val1]

Thank you for this! I just went back and rewatched this. Between 13:15 to 14:30 he is discussing the nudes and unallocated space.BBM- he clearly says this about exhibits 164-169 the nudes.

I just re-listened too..., yes I'm :deadhorse: but at 14:40:

JM - "And so with the photographs, at least with/that? some of them, comes the date and time?"
Det.M - "Yes."

That still leaves a window open imo.

 

[Nightswimmer]

As for the debate about the photos on TA's camera, I'm not sure why there's doubt about them being there from being taken on 6/4. If pictures were 'planted' on the camera by the killer, then why would she have taken some pains to ruin the camera and the card within by washing/bleaching it in the washing machine? That implies she did not want pictures to be found. If she planted pictures she would want them to be found, otherwise what was the point?

The photographs that day were probably to create an atmosphere where Arias could distract Travis. They weren't taken because Arias wanted high quality pictures, the camera was merely a prop to be used. Taking pictures was how Arias was able to get close to Travis while he was in the shower -- another distraction.

Really, it is what it is. She took pictures, she deleted some pictures, she tried to destroy evidence on that camera, and fortunately she failed.

EM: I agree with this. I have trouble seeing what Arias had to gain in uploading the photos from an external source. It certainly doesn't seem to help with her primary objective that day, or the original story she tried using when first questioned about his murder.

 

[TexMex]

I just re-listened too..., yes I'm :deadhorse: but at 14:40:

JM - "And so with the photographs, at least with/that? some of them, comes the date and time?"
Det.M - "Yes."

That still leaves a window open imo.

Melendez testified all new cameras including TAs saves photos to 2 seperate areas : the internal memory, and then the preview/thumbnail portion of the drive. The thumbnails do not have EXIF data, while the others recovered from the SD slot did. And, more than a few had this data attached and recovered as he explained he verified the time stamps on direct

Iirc only 1 or 2 of all of the June 4 pic didn't but had other ways to verify including the KY bottle

 

[MissHaley]

Hi Hatfield, I agree, I don't think they had sex either. Somehow she took her own pics and did it before he woke up or put them on his camera from another source, her computer or her phone. Remember she had a backpack with her computer and camera in a backpack she brought in with her. (if you can believe anything she says) Also she said she had her other camera in the car. I thought at the time, who would leave an electronic appliance in a hot car in the summer in AZ. But the pigtails are weird too. She claimed TA loved them, when did she ever appear in pigtails before? There was something on one of the tapes or texts about pigtails but I think it was her talking about them not him. But you are right we will never know the truth about June 4th from her. I think she will write a book and there are plenty of idiots out there to ghost write it for her. I will boycott it if I can. No one wants to hear more of her lies about TA. She don't have that many fans. Even Shanna Hogan, a noted author didn't sell that many books when JA was front and center in the news. So I don't believe there is a market for anything she would write and besides, The Alexanders would get the money, SOS law.

This isn't an opinion about the camera but, ties in with yours & Hatfield's posts about what went on that day(photos). In her testimony remember she states they woke up at 1 PM. The police report states that Travis returned a text/phone call (I can't remember) at NOON or 12:30 and that Chris Hughes was the last person to have contacted Travis. She never says he returned a call. She didn't know about it, IMO because she wasn't at his home yet, perhaps? She didn't have time to go thru his phone/computer after she killed him, so she didn't know he had communicated with someone. She admitted she tailored her stories to what the police knew. So she knew photos were time stamped starting after 1 PM, and that's why she said they woke up then. JMO

 

[TexMex]

This isn't an opinion about the camera but, ties in with yours & Hatfield's posts about what went on that day(photos). In her testimony remember she states they woke up at 1 PM. The police report states that Travis returned a text/phone call (I can't remember) at NOON or 12:30 and that Chris Hughes was the last person to have contacted Travis. She never says he returned a call. She didn't know about it, IMO because she wasn't at his home yet, perhaps? She didn't have time to go thru his phone/computer after she killed him, so she didn't know he had communicated with someone. She admitted she tailored her stories to what the police knew. So she knew photos were time stamped starting after 1 PM, and that's why she said they woke up then. JMO

I have no trouble believing that maybe Travis got up around 12, perhaps used the restroom or let Napoleon outside, checked his phone, returned the text then went back to bed for an hour