Verdict Watch Thread Saturday July 13

[Schuby]

I wonder if anyone on jury would know manslaughter minimum...

If they're asking for clarification then it's not a compromise verdict. When juries decide on a compromise verdict they don't care about it fitting the instruction just right--that's the definition of a compromise.

 

[Lovelymountains]

This is my opinion on the whole thing. I personally think the Jury is going to find him guilty and they want to compare Murder 2 and Manslaughter before they make the decision. I would not be surprised if they have a verdict by the end of the night. I also wouldn't be surprised if they go with Murder 2. I kind of wonder if they are stuck on that and just want to know more about manslaughter. JMO MOO...

I think there's a good chance you are right. If he were to be acquited, I think it would already have happened. I think the jury is deciding between Murder Two and Manslaughter. It's a close call, IMO, and I have watched most of the trial and read the testimony several times. IMO Not Guilty would be a miscarriage of justice.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

It just feels UNFAIR that the jury does not understand the automatic 15 to 20 yr sentences that come with manslaughter. I think most people assume it carries a 2 to 8 yr sentence, or something smaller like that. If they wanted him to go to prison for 20 yrs, why not find him guilty of 2nd degree? JMO

:seeya: I agree ... and jumping in off your post here, katy :

In my opinion, Jury Instructions should make note of the PENALTY that goes with each -- especially IF the JURY is going to decide the PENALTY -- and even if they are not going to decide the PENALTY ... Juries need to understand the penalty that goes along with the Charge !

Example: look what happened in the Jodi Arias Trial ...

By the way : WHO will decide the "penalty" in this case IF GZ is not acquitted ?

IMO ... JMO ... MOO !

 

[Sweet Fox]

I would rather a hung jury than manslaughter.

Oh, me too. I'll be so sick if they settle on manslaughter.

 

[Just Sailing Thru]

FYI Law prof tweet
.@RBPundit Essentially the MS instruction states that the killing must have been unjustified to not be MS--SD provides that justification.

 

[Bee Happy]

I'm shocked that some people think TM's family doesn't deserve prayers. Losing a child, no matter the circumstances, is hard.

 

[iluvmua]

Anyone know if, assuming they don't finish tonight, the judge will have them deliberate tomorrow?

Also, if he's found guilty is sentencing done immediately or later?

IIRC, they could go into sunday if they needed to.

 

[neesaki]

Have you ever seen a 'teenage boy' who gets pissed and aggressive when someone talks or looks at them funny?

Trust me, they exist.

Oh yes, their hormones are at their peak at that age.

 

[logicalgirl]

The defense didn't ignore that, they tried to keep manslaughter from the jury and the judge ruled against them. The "compromise verdict" was definitely on their minds. MOO.

The Defense can't "keep" a charge of Manslaughter off the table or from the jury - it is a lessor offense.

If he is found guilty of Manslaughter - he will serve a minimum of 10 years.

 

[Chelly]

with respect - Manslaughter is a lessor charge than murder 2 and has always been on the table. The defense lawyers made the mistake of ignoring that.

IMO

Agreed, always on the table, but prosecution, nor defense in closing, never "suggested" its consideration. it was always Guilty or Not guilty due to self defense.

 

[Lovelymountains]

It's just common sense imo. TM was out of control by any reasonable standard and it seemed no one even tried to help him imo.

I agree that someone was certainly out of control. Where I disagree is that I think it was GZ. Apparently for much of this life.

 

[yolorado]

My prediction, they'll hang. Guessing they've got at least one who will stand firm on self defense and at least one other who will stand firm on conviction. I think they are trying to compromise and this is their last effort. If they convict on manslaughter, I think several jurors will be shocked and horrified at the length of the sentence. If there's a conviction, I believe it will be overturned on appeal.

 

[bellaalex]

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2013/07/zimmerman-jurors-can-consider-manslaughter-judge.html

Self-defense is an affirmative defense which, if accepted, would completely excuse the crimes of both second degree murder and manslaughter.

Jurors will be instructed under Florida law that if they find that Zimmerman shot and killed Martin in self-defense, they cannot find that he is guilty of manslaughter.
................................
I hope the jurors apply the law and review all the testimony. IMO

 

[Bee Happy]

Notice how we are trying to glean an awful lot just from their question? lol
On edge! We honestly know nothing. This could still go any way.

 

[WillenFan21]

I haven't watched the trial closely I've seen some of the testimony but not all. I feel that Zimmer totally intended on killing Trayvon from day one. If this guy would have stayed in his car this kid would be alive. JMO

 

[dog.gone.cute]

:drumroll::drumroll: 13 HOURS per the Deliberation Clock on HLN !

:seeya:

 

[RANCH]

If the judge allowed it how can it not be fair?

If trial judges never made mistakes there would be no appeal courts. They are not infallible. MOO.

 

[MeeBee]

:seeya: I agree ... and jumping in off your post here, katy :

In my opinion, Jury Instructions should make note of the PENALTY that goes with each -- especially IF the JURY is going to decide the PENALTY -- and even if they are not going to decide the PENALTY ... Juries need to understand the penalty that goes along with the Charge !

Example: look what happened in the Jodi Arias Trial ...

By the way : WHO will decide the "penalty" in this case IF GZ is not acquitted ?

IMO ... JMO ... MOO !

The judge decides the sentence though here so it's not the same.

Also, if Jodi had been found guilty of manslaughter, she could have been out in 5 years, scary. But the law isn't linear from state and it doesn't always produce the outcome we want when a person is charged.

 

[shygrl]

The Defense can't "keep" a charge of Manslaughter off the table or from the jury - it is a lessor offense.

If he is found guilty of Manslaughter - he will serve a minimum of 10 years.

The defense objected to the judge adding manslaughter. She still added it, but the defense did do what they could to stop her.

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

While we are waiting, does anyone know what photos were entered into evidence by the defense yesterday? I could not see the photos MOM was showing to the jurors of what TM looked like 3 months before the shooting so that the jurors would know what GZ was actually facing that night...The overhead projector "broke" when it was time for the defense to use it and MOM had to walk up to jurors and show them the photos. TIA