Verdict Watch Thread Saturday July 13

[bellaalex]

Did the judge leave out an important juror instruction regarding manslaughter when she first read the instructions? One that was damaging to the defense (of course). I know I read it here or elsewhere but I cant recall where I saw it today.

I also believe the jurors have ruled out 2nd degree murder and now are deciding whether it will be manslaughter or an acquittal. They were instructed to start with the highest charge first and move down. IMO MOO

 

[logicalgirl]

So does that mean if they find him not guilty of murder 2 then they can't find him guilty of manslaughter?

I'm confused

No - these are separate charges. It's an either or. Manslaughter is about taking a life without justification.

IMO

 

[Sulamith]

IMO, the jury is weighing Murder 2 vs manslaughter. MOO

 

[Sonya610]

Manslaughter is manslaughter. That's all they need to know.

I haven't read the jury instructions but they ARE informed of the sentences handed out for various charges right??? Manslaughter may seem "lesser" but not if it comes to 30 years!

Course in this case unless O'Mara or the jury instructions specified it (which is very very unlikely regarding jury instructions) I doubt if they would realize in this case manslaughter comes with added time for a firearm and a minor.

IMO.

 

[WillenFan21]

This is my opinion on the whole thing. I personally think the Jury is going to find him guilty and they want to compare Murder 2 and Manslaughter before they make the decision. I would not be surprised if they have a verdict by the end of the night. I also wouldn't be surprised if they go with Murder 2. I kind of wonder if they are stuck on that and just want to know more about manslaughter. JMO MOO...

 

[Love Never Fails]

I like the way you think!!

Me too!

 

[Bee Happy]

It just feels UNFAIR that the jury does not understand the automatic 15 to 20 yr sentences that come with manslaughter. I think most people assume it carries a 2 to 8 yr sentence, or something smaller like that. If they wanted him to go to prison for 20 yrs, why not find him guilty of 2nd degree? JMO

I don't think they should know. They shouldn't base their decision on how long they think he should get. They should decide based on the definition of the charge. jmo

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Why do you say that? Specifics?

I think he has done a good job especially by counteracting the prosecution's meaningless drama.

IMO.

I don't think he's fighting for him as hard as he could. He didn't use all the evidence, witnesses and arguments he could have. I don't think GZ is allowed any say in what happens, for example.

There's also these quotes rounded up by .com

“We will have to wait to see what the evidence provides, my client believes he is not guilty”…. [Mark O'Mara - April 2012, after arrest]

“My client feels he is not a racist”….. [Mark O'Mara - May 2012]

“I cannot speak to his honesty, but George Zimmerman has definitely damaged his credibility, we’ll have to wait and see if he can recover it”…. [Mark O'Mara - June 2012, 2nd Bond]

“My client said he thinks he did nothing wrong”….. [Mark O'Mara - July 2012]

“The Stand Your Ground law is an absurd statute”…. [Mark O'Mara - August 2012]

“I don’t know if it is illegal, but there should be a law, or legislation written, to stop this type of thing”….. [Mark O'Mara - September 2012]

“If it was not for my client, George Zimmerman, he (Crump) and I would be on the same side in this issue”…. [Mark O'Mara - October 2012]

“My client was arrested, he should have been arrested, and so there is no reason to debate civil rights in this trial… [Mark O'Mara - November 2012]

“He’s probably not guilty of murder”… [Mark O'Mara - July 2013]

It seems he want to come off as the nice guy all the time. F that, I'd rather have a JM fighting for me.

 

[mdana]

I think the jury of six women (five of whom are mothers)can't wrap their minds around "innocent" and will
go with manslaughter.

I don't think they understand someone can be not guilty and at the same time not innocent.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

WOW. aside from being wholly untrue, that shows quite an alarming lack of compassion and understanding.

though many here mocked the closing argument of the state, when they said it was GZ who ''created this mess'' they were absolutely right. i am stunned that even those who support GZ refuse to give even that much.

and to think, it's those of us who feel GZ is guilty who are supposedly basing our opinions of emotion alone!

MOO

Wholly untrue? Well, not in my opinion. TM could have gone home but chose not to.<modsnip>

 

[katydid23]

But that's not necessarily true, either. They could have found that the State didn't meet its burden on M2 without even considering self defense. They could be considering the same thing right now on the manslaughter charge and not even have gotten to self-defense yet. No need to find self defense if there is no proof beyond a reasonable doubt of either M2 or manslaughter. I'm still hopeful. jmo

They are a methodical jury and you might be right.

 

[neesaki]

In all honesty, I think the manslaughter charge is the toughest one to understand by non-legal folks.

I agree, also, at least in my state IIRC there is 1st and 2nd degree manslaughter.
Do we know if there is more than one specific manslaughter conviction possibility in this case? I haven't heard.

 

[RANCH]

But that's not necessarily true, either. They could have found that the State didn't meet its burden on M2 without even considering self defense. They could be considering the same thing right now on the manslaughter charge and not even have gotten to self-defense yet. No need to find self defense if there is no proof beyond a reasonable doubt of either M2 or manslaughter. I'm still hopeful. jmo

I agree that's possible that this jury is waiting to decide on self-defense last. It's not the best way to do it but possible. I guess we have to wait and see. MOO.

 

[Just K]

So, if they go for Manslughter then that means they don't believe that it was self defense, correct?

Thus that decision seems to eliminate the ill, will, spite for the 2nd degree Murder charge, correct.

 

[JeannaT]

I haven't read the jury instructions but they ARE informed of the sentences handed out for various charges right??? Manslaughter may seem "lesser" but not if it comes to 30 years!

Course in this case unless O'Mara or the jury instructions specified it (which is very very unlikely regarding jury instructions) I doubt if they would realize in this case manslaughter comes with added time for a firearm and a minor.

IMO.

No, they're not informed of the sentences. this came out a couple days ago - seems remiss to me.

iMHo

 

[logicalgirl]

Possibly it has taken the jury all this time to eliminate 2nd degree murder.

The prosecution never argued for manslaughter. The charge was just thrown in at the end. It's possible they jury has to be comfortable with its definition to eliminate manslaughter as well.

BTW....I am 68 years old and have learned never to get into a pi$$ing contest with a person with opposing views. Just plain silly.

with respect - Manslaughter is a lessor charge than murder 2 and has always been on the table. The defense lawyers made the mistake of ignoring that.

IMO

 

[Mels3kidz]

What is wrong with that combo? Lots of people think I am strange because I love fried liver and onions and bacon. Luby's Cafeteria makes the best!

lolol. Yes they do!

Mel

 

[missmazzy]

Bill Shaeffer just said on WFTV that the jury even considering manslaughter means that this jury has disregarded the defense's claim of self-defense and is considering a "compromise verdict" of manslaughter. I agree. MOO.

That's what I thought. I figured if they felt there was no evidence, they would have voted NG right away. Oh well, potentially wrong again - we can always count on Florida to make life interesting.

IMO, if this were a weekday, I'm sure one of MOM's minions would be filing the appeal papers immediately after he verdict is read.

 

[Sonya610]

This is my opinion on the whole thing. I personally think the Jury is going to find him guilty and they want to compare Murder 2 and Manslaughter before they make the decision. I would not be surprised if they have a verdict by the end of the night. I also wouldn't be surprised if they go with Murder 2. I kind of wonder if they are stuck on that and just want to know more about manslaughter. JMO MOO...

Have you been following the trial and evidence closely Willen?

 

[Maryann123]

Manslaughter is manslaughter. That's all they need to know.

In my state (NC) we have voluntary and involuntary manslaughter. There's a big difference in the sentences. Before this trial, I thought manslaughter was nothing more than a slap on the wrist. I'm just hoping this jury doesn't think that. In this case, and in this trial it's nothing more than another trick to put GZ in prison.