Viable suspect: Damien Echols

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No. I'm suggesting that they exaggerated his mental condition in order for him to be eligible for SSI. The defense doctor merely used what was there in an effort to reduce the penalty, or sentence. Mitigating circumstances, you know. As I said, since it didn't work, maybe there's not a lot of "there" there with Exhibit 500.
 
I don't think it would be too much to ask to assume his maturity was arrested as well by being in prison so long.

I hung out with 'goths' as a teenager at one point, and yeah, his affect is and was really familiar. The feigned confidence, flippancy and braggery is an extremely common way for an outsider to overcompensate.

Something I've learned is that people lie. They lie about things that don't matter. They lie because they have things they want to hide often unrelated to what they are being accused of. They lie to themselves. They just lie, and it can really cloud the issue at hand, and yet still not mean they are guilty.
 
For years I thought that Paradise Lost had all of the case information. I never knew how deeply disturbed Damien Echols was. That he was collecting Social Security, or that Jessie Misskelley confessed on multiple occasions, to multiple people compulsively. I did not know about Doc 500. I did not know about Damien killing dogs and cats. How could you base a balanced opinion without all of that? I feel lied to. I may still have believed in their innocence, I would just like to have had all of the information to do so. Damien Echols is very charismatic. I am drawn to him, which in and if itself is a huge red flag. I now think Damien Echols is a psychopath. I think they may have actually done this crime. MOO. I'm still reading and researching to base a final opinion. I honestly admit to having a half a crush on Mr. Echols and his rocker image for many years now. Kind of makes me sad.
 
I'm no big fan of DE. Since he has been released, he has done some very questionable things. However, as another poster mentioned, I have no doubt but that his maturing process was somewhat arrested because he was incarcerated (most of the time in solitary confinement and all of the time - post conviction - on Death Row). I keep hoping that he will "grow up" soon, but, IMO, it hasn't happened yet. But, the bottom line is that he and CJB and JLM, Jr. are innocent of these murders. I have read the trials and all of the information in the hearings during those trials that didn't see the light of day in the courtroom. Having taught high school for 25 years, I have experience with teenagers. DE, CJB and JLM, Jr. are "typical" of many of the students I taught. I taught the "angry young man" (DE) who said and did many things for "shock" value, but who was really intelligent. I taught the "shy retiring type" (CJB) who wasn't the best of students, but just wanted to blend in while in school. I taught the "slow-witted type" (JLM, Jr.), too. Those students were pitiful. They would agree to anything to make the questioning stop. Many times, the lies they told were to hide their disability. They were often put up as "scapegoats" by fellow students because those other students, much like the wmpd, knew that the slow-witted ones would eventually claim responsibility for things they didn't do. That's why a competent teacher would only question such a student through someone trained in doing so. That's how the wmpd were able to manipulate JLM, Jr. into a false confession - and, IMO, that may be the most despicable thing about this case. As to JLM, Jr.'s multiple statements (I won't dignify them by calling them confessions), although the "facts" he recited became clearer upon retelling (especially post-conviction statements), none of his statements align with the facts known in this case - especially now! As to E500, IMO, there was a lot of exaggeration in that opus. First, it was presented, by the defense, during the penalty phase of the trial, in order to provide mitigating circumstances in an attempt to avoid the Death Penalty. Second, I know for a fact (having been told by mental health care professionals and social workers during my teaching career) that a student's "mental" symptoms are often exaggerated in an effort to make them eligible for SSI. Was DE more "disturbed" than the "normal" (whatever that means) teenager living in abject poverty? Maybe. Does that make him a murderer? Absolutely not! So, when researching this case, don't be swayed by what may appear to be "evidence" that DE is a psychopath. Read everything. Form your own opinions. My opinions are based on research and life experience - not on movies or documentaries or even other people's opinions. I just hope that everyone bases their opinion on the same.
 
I value the information compassionate reader, I am still worming my way down the rabbit hole here. I am flipping back and forth. I have spent the weekend trying to find balanced, unbiased information that isn't tinted for one theory or another. I am greatly uneasy that they copped the Alford plea. If they were railroaded during the trials, then they should have been joyous to exonerate themselves. Idk, JMO. I want so badly to know for sure, one way or the other because this crime has haunted me.
 
I wonder, is there an impartial site where all of the facts, evidence and timelines are laid out so that I really can feel I've formed my own opinion? The Rock Star endorsements don't impress me much, the southern bible belters don't either.
 
I wonder, is there an impartial site where all of the facts, evidence and timelines are laid out so that I really can feel I've formed my own opinion? The Rock Star endorsements don't impress me much, the southern bible belters don't either.

There is no one impartial site that contains all that you're looking for, unfortunately. No matter which site you turn to, there is a bias, however slight, toward innocence or guilt. The only truly unbiased site is Callahan's, which is a collection of almost all of the documents related to this case. Be forewarned, however, it is a huge repository, with no search engine, so you have to know what you're looking for before you go in. Compassionate Reader is a good person to seek information from, she knows this case quite well. Others that you might seek out are Cher Lockholmes, Ausgirl, Justiceseeker35, and Miranda!. These folks know a lot and can help with timelines, facts, and evidence.

There are also other considerations that come into play with this case, however, such as drug trafficking, that seem to have been overlooked. A good source of information for those types of evidence is Compassionate Reader. As stated before, she knows a great deal about this case. And you might also check out some of the other threads on the WM3 here at Websleuths. There are a number of good ones, and a few you might want to steer clear of. I'm sure you'll know which is which once you start reading.

I am no great fan of Damien Echols, either, feeling he is his own worst enemy, and didn't do any of them any good in the beginning. If he had presented himself more seriously and honestly, the case might have been resolved differently. In all honesty, I think that Jason is the most trustworthy of the bunch. Jessie was railroaded by circumstances and a dishonest effort on the part of the WMPD to solve the crime and put someone away; this due to the fact that they themselves were under investigation and suspicion. This case came at the most opportune time for them, and they seized it and ran with it. Sorry to say, they can't really be trusted in very much of what they stated at any given time during the investigation, the arrests, or the trials. Even to this day, they stand by their original "convictions" and won't admit to any major, only minor, mistakes.

I hope this helps you, ninij9. Good luck with your research and forming an opinion of your own! Remember, if you need any help, or have questions, the folks above are the ones to reach out to!

I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming...
 
May I ask what posters think DE has done since release that would be described as "questionable"?


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Personally, I think that moving to Salem, MA was unwise. I know he's since left, but, if I had been falsely convicted of a Satanic killing, I don't think it would be in my best interest (to show my innocence) to move to "Witch Central" USA. That's MOO. Again, this is a personal belief, but all of the tattoos, IMO, project an image that I would want to eschew were I falsely convicted of a heinous crime such as this. Now, I'm an old lady, and I know that lots of people have tattoos these days. However, the number and nature of DE's tattoos, IMO, send a message that he might not want to project. None of these things make me believe that he is a murderer. He's just a bit immature and still trying to find himself after spending over 18 years on Death Row for a crime he didn't commit. FFS, I don't know what I would have done were I in his shoes, and I'm not really trying to be critical. I'm glad he's free (sort of) to live his life. I just wish that he would remember that actions have consequences and just because one has the right to do something doesn't mean that its the responsible thing to do. When I look at CJB and compare his actions, since release, with DE's, there's simply no doubt which one did the more responsible things. JLM, Jr., since release, has simply done what he did at trial - tried to keep his head down and stay out of the limelight. Again, based on my experience with those of similar mental capability, this is totally understandable. IMO, it doesn't make him look guilty, just scared. He doesn't want to go back to prison, and, based on past experience, he knows that he can end up in prison for nothing. So, he just tries to stay out of the public eye. I don't blame him one bit for his non-action. Sorry for the rant! As GK says, I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
 
May I ask what posters think DE has done since release that would be described as "questionable"?


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I thought it was questionable for him to attend a "Horror Fest" as a main attraction that was celebrating certain characters like Jason Voorhies and Michael Myers, to name one recent thing off the top of my head. If he wants to make money off of public appearances, I have no problem with that necessarily, but he could have refused this appearance. Very distasteful and somewhat disrespectful towards the 3 little boys and the families involved.
 
Thank you so much Goblinkeeper! I am going to go to the Callahan site tonight. I tried a few blogs and sites and the two opposing camps spend most of their time attacking each other. Its so sad the three young boys seem to have been forgotten by most of these nuts (on both sides). Lol, I can easily see though how this case can make one nuts. I'm afraid almost to revisit this, but my curiosity drives me crazy unless I feed it.
 
For years I thought that Paradise Lost had all of the case information. I never knew how deeply disturbed Damien Echols was. That he was collecting Social Security, or that Jessie Misskelley confessed on multiple occasions, to multiple people compulsively. I did not know about Doc 500. I did not know about Damien killing dogs and cats. How could you base a balanced opinion without all of that? I feel lied to. I may still have believed in their innocence, I would just like to have had all of the information to do so. Damien Echols is very charismatic. I am drawn to him, which in and if itself is a huge red flag. I now think Damien Echols is a psychopath. I think they may have actually done this crime. MOO. I'm still reading and researching to base a final opinion. I honestly admit to having a half a crush on Mr. Echols and his rocker image for many years now. Kind of makes me sad.

I know exactly what you mean .. you know what I think .. sometimes if you do as much research as humanly possible (yes Callahans is a great resource), then sit back and let it all settle in, then the truth will emerge. So I agree, educate yourself on both sides of the whole debate, and then find what you can be absolutely sure is fact, then let it simmer .. I still think there may be something that happens in the future in this case which will settle it, either way, once and for all.
 
I know exactly what you mean .. you know what I think .. sometimes if you do as much research as humanly possible (yes Callahans is a great resource), then sit back and let it all settle in, then the truth will emerge. So I agree, educate yourself on both sides of the whole debate, and then find what you can be absolutely sure is fact, then let it simmer .. I still think there may be something that happens in the future in this case which will settle it, either way, once and for all.
I sure hope so. I cannot even imagine the families of those little boys. I feel like they will never have closure.
 
I have a question about this case. After I watched the Slipknot movie, I went through the different research sites that were mentioned previously.
Does anyone recall any of the three involved in this case ever acting horrified that they were being accused of such a hideous crime? Was there ever any outrage displayed, or emotional protests of innocence?

I have a question about this case. After I watched the Slipknot movie, I was horrified. I went through the different research sites that were mentioned previously. I have read the transcripts, sites of different groups, etc.

Does anyone recall any of the three involved in this case ever acting horrified that they were being accused of such a hideous crime? Was there ever any outrage displayed, or emotional protests of innocence? I don't think there was (I could be wrong, which is why I am asking) and if there was not, I can think of one good reason why there wasn't ...

IMHO
 
Also, if a "friend" lied and said you were guilty of a hideous crime, and you were sent to prison for it, would you not despise that person, and never have anything to do with them again? Wouldn't you protest your wrongful conviction with every breath, instead of sitting in the courtroom with a smirk on your face? JMO
 
I don't know if this qualifies, but, when JB was being sentenced and the judge asked him if he wanted to say anything before sentence was pronounced, he said, "Yeah. I'm innocent." His mom has often expressed outrage over his situation - especially prior to the Alford pleas. Of course, at the original trials, all three plead not guilty. While incarcerated, DE often expressed his shock at the length of time that had passed without any results. As to JM and his relationship with the other two, IMO, both DE and JB are well aware of JM's limited mental capacity. That's probably why they don't "blame" him for it. Personally, I think it's very magnanimous of them.

As to "emotional protests of innocence," I'm sure those occurred to LE, which wouldn't let them see the light of day. By the time the public became aware of the case, three years (more or less) after the fact, I would bet that the innocent men were a bit tired of proclaiming their innocence to closed minds and hearts. DE has stated in his books that every time he was interviewed, he was beaten by the guards and what few possessions he had were destroyed. We know from Mara Leverit's latest book that JB was, likewise, severely beaten in prison, too. Even JM, on the rare occasions when he was interviewed, maintained his innocence. I'd imagine that he, too, was beaten. However, they still continually professed their innocence - knowing that retribution would be swift and sure. IMO, that says a lot.
 
Thank you, Compassionate Reader, for sharing your thoughts. I am going to research this even further than I already have, but after reading the transcripts, other info, etc. I am leaning very heavily towards guilty. IMO, JM told the truth during the Bible confession. Then again, the lack of evidence connecting them to the case cannot be ignored. A lot to think about ...
 
fwiw, I lived in the general area back then and I ran across very few locals who believed these boys were guilty. It was well known they were wrongly convicted based on made up witchcraft and occult stories.

Just an anecdote.



I'm no big fan of DE. Since he has been released, he has done some very questionable things. However, as another poster mentioned, I have no doubt but that his maturing process was somewhat arrested because he was incarcerated (most of the time in solitary confinement and all of the time - post conviction - on Death Row). I keep hoping that he will "grow up" soon, but, IMO, it hasn't happened yet. But, the bottom line is that he and CJB and JLM, Jr. are innocent of these murders. I have read the trials and all of the information in the hearings during those trials that didn't see the light of day in the courtroom. Having taught high school for 25 years, I have experience with teenagers. DE, CJB and JLM, Jr. are "typical" of many of the students I taught. I taught the "angry young man" (DE) who said and did many things for "shock" value, but who was really intelligent. I taught the "shy retiring type" (CJB) who wasn't the best of students, but just wanted to blend in while in school. I taught the "slow-witted type" (JLM, Jr.), too. Those students were pitiful. They would agree to anything to make the questioning stop. Many times, the lies they told were to hide their disability. They were often put up as "scapegoats" by fellow students because those other students, much like the wmpd, knew that the slow-witted ones would eventually claim responsibility for things they didn't do. That's why a competent teacher would only question such a student through someone trained in doing so. That's how the wmpd were able to manipulate JLM, Jr. into a false confession - and, IMO, that may be the most despicable thing about this case. As to JLM, Jr.'s multiple statements (I won't dignify them by calling them confessions), although the "facts" he recited became clearer upon retelling (especially post-conviction statements), none of his statements align with the facts known in this case - especially now! As to E500, IMO, there was a lot of exaggeration in that opus. First, it was presented, by the defense, during the penalty phase of the trial, in order to provide mitigating circumstances in an attempt to avoid the Death Penalty. Second, I know for a fact (having been told by mental health care professionals and social workers during my teaching career) that a student's "mental" symptoms are often exaggerated in an effort to make them eligible for SSI. Was DE more "disturbed" than the "normal" (whatever that means) teenager living in abject poverty? Maybe. Does that make him a murderer? Absolutely not! So, when researching this case, don't be swayed by what may appear to be "evidence" that DE is a psychopath. Read everything. Form your own opinions. My opinions are based on research and life experience - not on movies or documentaries or even other people's opinions. I just hope that everyone bases their opinion on the same.
 
Thank you, Compassionate Reader, for sharing your thoughts. I am going to research this even further than I already have, but after reading the transcripts, other info, etc. I am leaning very heavily towards guilty. IMO, JM told the truth during the Bible confession. Then again, the lack of evidence connecting them to the case cannot be ignored. A lot to think about ...

Keep looking, Scout! The so-called "Bible confession" is full of holes, too. Read the Rule 37 testimony of DS on Callahan's!
 

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