Volusia County - Daytona Beach (Ridgwood Ave corridor)

[CriminalMinds]

Hey Everyone. Just wanted to say that I'm glad a few of you are reengaging with the Daytona case! It's one of our oldest and least covered of the cases or the show so we are depending on WS to help out and play a big part in the convo. If you're working on a theory, please let us know. If you're local to that area of FL, please let us know as well.

Keep up the good work!
Rachel & Josh

DM, maybe we should have Bessie set up this thread up as a FORUM, so then we could have vic threads and related threads like some of the other sk cases are set up (i.e. Jennings, LISK)

---I know a lot of cases seem from the outside that they should be already be solved, easier to solve, etc., but this case seems like there are some things out there that would/will make it easier if enough people jump on it--worst case we banter ideas/theories not visited by le, or revisit ones that seem to merit it

--some excellent sleuthers over in the LISK thread that need to be here as well(hint hint..you know who you are)

 

[CriminalMinds]

I was thinking it would be helpful to have some lists of facts. I don't know if there is a comprehensive post with all this information but I feel the need to get one put together to get it out of my head. So here goes. Feel free to add to, edit, etc.

FACTS:

The gun is a Smith and Wesson 40 caliber Sigma Series VE
The car is a 2003 Ford Taurus
Socks left on 3 of the 4 victims
First murder December (?) 2005
Found: December 26, 2005
Second murder committed January (?)2006
Found: January 14, 2006
Third murder February(?) 2006
Found: February 24, 2006
Fourth murder committed December (?) 2007
Found: January 2, 2008
All four murdered with the same weapon
DNA collected and matches on 2 of the 4 victims
DNA has not been linked to any POI to date

I was thinking a diagram of some sort would be helpful with visualizing the women's relationships to each other, since it is known some of the victims knew each other. The Venn could include friends who have also been murdered but not linked to the SK.



Also, a sidenote: Does anyone recall an article that stated the women (or one of them) had possibly been posed?
I think I recall someone saying it looked like Iwana Patton had been posed and LE wouldn't comment if the other victims been posed or not.

the dates indicate maybe a part time FL resident(snowbird???)

 

[Skully]

Yes the dates do or can indicate a Snow Bird from up North, but another thought, what if the drug lord put out a hit on the girls. Maybe to teach the rest a lesson? Do we know if they had a pimp? or where they on the streets by themselves? A pimp treats the girls like crap, but he won't kill them because it is his money maker. A drug dealer will, he doesn't care.

 

[Danse_Macabre]

DM, maybe we should have Bessie set up this thread up as a FORUM, so then we could have vic threads and related threads like some of the other sk cases are set up (i.e. Jennings, LISK)

---I know a lot of cases seem from the outside that they should be already be solved, easier to solve, etc., but this case seems like there are some things out there that would/will make it easier if enough people jump on it--worst case we banter ideas/theories not visited by le, or revisit ones that seem to merit it

--some excellent sleuthers over in the LISK thread that need to be here as well(hint hint..you know who you are)

YES! That's a great idea. I just asked Bessie. Josh and I will be filming in Daytona early August which gives us only a few weeks to really get the ball rolling. We are pretty versed in existing theories and have already made contact with several people involved in the case, victim's families, LE, friends, journalists... But we're always looking for new ideas, breaks, etc... in the case. Thanks and keep 'em coming!
Rachel

 

[Skully]

It would really help to have a thread for each victim. Can we also discuss Kristin Dunn? I know she was found in Orange City but she did reside in Daytona and worked Ridgewood ave.

 

[CriminalMinds]

YES! That's a great idea. I just asked Bessie. Josh and I will be filming in Daytona early August which gives us only a few weeks to really get the ball rolling. We are pretty versed in existing theories and have already made contact with several people involved in the case, victim's families, LE, friends, journalists... But we're always looking for new ideas, breaks, etc... in the case. Thanks and keep 'em coming!
Rachel

possible random theories, no matter how far fetched: just throwing out there for discsussion until i can get better acquainted with the case info/details, girl info , etc.

1) burned drug dealer, sending message (especially since 2 maybe 3 these girls knew each other, including an unrelated case in laura welsh)--green said (to her bf RM) she knew who killed gunther and welsh--well, Ollie edward parker shot welsh, so by default that means she thinks he is the sk that killed gunther

2) burned john--one of the girls mentioned being scared due to burning someone on the street-so that means either drug dealer or john(maybe a pimp but unlikely)

3)former pimp--if these girls were pimped up and were trying to go independent, that would be a strong motive

4) highly unlikely, but could be the guy that was driving the car for welsh during the drug deal( mr.h.)--payback for being dragged into a murder beef while trying to score drugs for welsh, and maybe they were picking up extra for one of the other girl(s)--like I said, highly unlikely, but still not impossible

 

[CriminalMinds]

the model of gun used indicates the killer would likely use a shooting range, especially if he is a wanna-be cop---the FBI or local authorities should go to the range that's by where the girls were killed and see if there are either sign in logs or membership rolls from that time

--i wonder how their research went on trying to find registered users of that model weapon..(assuming it wasn't bought as a burner)

Strickland Shooting Range, 1180 Indian Lake Road, Daytona Beach. It is close to the murder sites of Julie Green and Stacy Gage.

 

[CriminalMinds]

one thing I would have checked PRIOR to releasing what type of tire track they confirmed (and I would imagine/HOPE they did) is the Daytona, Holly Hill car registrations(then the rest of the county, the the next county, etc. as you go outward) for a 2003 ford taurus/mercury sable

---there is a good chance the killer changed tires(manufacturers) after that report came out, so they could have looked at small independent tire places to see if anyone had come in to get 4 new ones or even used ones for those types of car models--then check larger chanis like firestone, etc--using a larger tire store would be risky due to the exposure of the report that it was getting at that time

--on the car reg front, I would say if it yielded too many to run down, they could have periodically checked back(while continuing to work through the first list generated) at intervals of 30/60/90/120/180 days to see which names were NO longer on the list of having that kind of car registered--i would imagine a computer program could easily cross check that---then you could see who potentially panicked and sold their car

 

[LR1]

I was thinking it would be helpful to have some lists of facts. I don't know if there is a comprehensive post with all this information but I feel the need to get one put together to get it out of my head. So here goes. Feel free to add to, edit, etc.

FACTS:

The gun is a Smith and Wesson 40 caliber Sigma Series VE
The car is a 2003 Ford Taurus
Socks left on 3 of the 4 victims
First murder December (?) 2005
Found: December 26, 2005
Second murder committed January (?)2006
Found: January 14, 2006
Third murder February(?) 2006
Found: February 24, 2006
Fourth murder committed December (?) 2007
Found: January 2, 2008
All four murdered with the same weapon
DNA collected and matches on 2 of the 4 victims
DNA has not been linked to any POI to date

I was thinking a diagram of some sort would be helpful with visualizing the women's relationships to each other, since it is known some of the victims knew each other. The Venn could include friends who have also been murdered but not linked to the SK.



Also, a sidenote: Does anyone recall an article that stated the women (or one of them) had possibly been posed?
I think I recall someone saying it looked like Iwana Patton had been posed and LE wouldn't comment if the other victims been posed or not.

The only date given besides Christmas eve for Laquetta that I saw was for Stacey, it was the 11 of Dec. and they think she likely passed around that time. Julie left her BF house on Tomoka Rd. en route to I think it was Mason ave. to use a public phone around 8pm but the date wasn't given.

My guess is they were found within a few days in all but Stacey's case. By the way, according to a news video I saw on youtube from when she (SG) was found, the crime scene tape was at the edge of the woods in the actual driveway/parking lot of the church, it looked to be about 2/3 the way up the old driveway on the left side.

I don't remember reading about any being posed but there's a few strange posts on Topix that describes some things that supposedly were done to them involving spray paint and fire amongst other things but I don't know where they're getting that information and haven't seen those things mentioned anywhere else so a ton of salt with that one.

I looked around a little for the murder-suicide you mentioned earlier with no luck, do you remember what year this was?

 

[LR1]

Here's what the chief had to say shortly after Stacy Gage was found in 2008

Chitwood said they now know that later that night Gage left home to meet someone. He said that someone is the person who killed her and left her body in the woods near a remote parking lot and the picture is getting clearer on whom that someone is.

"This person we're looking for is a clean cut person. He's somebody who probably has a good job. He's somebody that you'll never suspect,"

That's a pretty emphatic statement, Is he implying that she would only go meet a clean cut person or is there something else telling him this.

The perp doesn't appear that selective.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/chief-daytona-beach-serial-killer-probably-clean-c/nJmyx/

 

[lesliep]

I haven't been on here in a long time....and am trying to catch up......so I may not have the entire story straight...please forgive me if I am wrong..... There hasn't been any new murders since 2008? If so, it seems to me that the perp is either dead or locked up or moved? has any cross referencing been done to check those angles? No sk goes that long without activity without a reason.

 

[lesliep]

and was there a connection between the doctor who was arrested in 2008, who moved out of town shortly there after? He was arrested trying to kidnap a hooker at gunpoint?

 

[Skully]

and was there a connection between the doctor who was arrested in 2008, who moved out of town shortly there after? He was arrested trying to kidnap a hooker at gunpoint?

I have said on the other thread that in 2008 the housing market and construction industry crashed. I think this ties in with not only Daytona, but other counties as well. I find similar murders in other counties up to 2008 then there is a gap, it picks back up 7/2009 then nothing again until 2010. I don't think it is one person, but I think truck drivers, and out of town construction workers lost jobs and things came to a halt. All JMO, but yes, nothing in 2008. You can check other counties and see if you can find anything, but the ones I was looking at for the Orlando to Tampa and Daytona areas, well can't find any thing.

 

[Skully]

and was there a connection between the doctor who was arrested in 2008, who moved out of town shortly there after? He was arrested trying to kidnap a hooker at gunpoint?

From what I read he was ruled out. I don't have the link sorry but you can google it maybe.

 

[Kairi'sMom]

I looked around a little for the murder-suicide you mentioned earlier with no luck, do you remember what year this was?

Ok, below are two articles. I am unsure if I am allowed to post them, since he was never a named POI that I can find.


I am positive there was an article suggesting his possibly being the SK due to fitting the profile and the curt response the reporter got from LE denying that he was, but I still can't find it. I'm almost positive it was an Orlando Sentinel article.



Mods please let me know if I can include two articles I found from MSM?

 

[Skully]

The other thing about the dates being in winter is, Dayton Bike week is around the middle of March IIRC. That place is crawling with people, bikers, vendors, cops, all kinds of out-of-towners, so not much privacy to kill and stash a body. When is the Daytona 500?

 

[Kairi'sMom]

The other thing about the dates being in winter is, Dayton Bike week is around the middle of March IIRC. That place is crawling with people, bikers, vendors, cops, all kinds of out-of-towners, so not much privacy to kill and stash a body. When is the Daytona 500?

Late February. But there are other races too, during the year. Also Bike Week in Spring, Spring Break, Biketoberfest in October, and other events at the race track through out the year.

LE said this guy is someone very clean cut, someone you would never expect. Military maybe? We also have Embry Riddle Aeronautical University very near the victims dump sites.

 

[teeandcee]

YES! That's a great idea. I just asked Bessie. Josh and I will be filming in Daytona early August ....

Whew, y'all are going to be there in August?? Brace yourselves for the heat and humidity. Having grown up there and finally fleeing the humidity, I wish you the best in both your filming endeavors and surviving Florida. In August.

 

[Skully]

So we have December, January and February and then December again in 07. Could he be someone other than a Snowbird, but lives there and knows the town, knows it is sort of quiet, maybe involved in drugs, but isn't seen with these girls? Ever. I do think they knew him, to some degree, at least enough to go with him. He could be military, the clean cut fits. Or an academic. Perhaps he was only there a couple of years and moved on, so where are there similar murders? If he was connected to the construction business, he had to move on in 08, where we deploying a lot of men in 08 as well? Perhaps he graduated in 08. All good reasons to stop killing in Daytona, but the biggest is, too much press and heat from LE. He had to move on, and never use that gun again, or chance getting caught. If he is in the military, his DNA is in the system, would it come up in a criminal case? I think so.

 

[CD82]

So we have December, January and February and then December again in 07. Could he be someone other than a Snowbird, but lives there and knows the town, knows it is sort of quiet, maybe involved in drugs, but isn't seen with these girls? Ever. I do think they knew him, to some degree, at least enough to go with him. He could be military, the clean cut fits. Or an academic. Perhaps he was only there a couple of years and moved on, so where are there similar murders? If he was connected to the construction business, he had to move on in 08, where we deploying a lot of men in 08 as well? Perhaps he graduated in 08. All good reasons to stop killing in Daytona, but the biggest is, too much press and heat from LE. He had to move on, and never use that gun again, or chance getting caught. If he is in the military, his DNA is in the system, would it come up in a criminal case? I think so.

Sometimes military ROTC and/or officer candidates are on reserve status while they attend school. They're obligated to the one weekend a month, 2 weeks a year schedule like other reservists.

Maybe we have a possible link between drill/reserve dates around that area. Something to consider, not sure if it's been brought up. And he could have graduated in 2008, moved out of state. Maybe he moved to Ohio........